Planes flipping during agressive defensive moves

[JunkyII]

Last night I witnessed several times in one flight these micro warps people are complaining about. Dunno if its a rendering issue or not as at lelast my net status was fine. The other guy didnt warp far. maybe 50-100 feet at a clip but it definitely wasnt something that he could have done maneuver wise as it was a now you see me now you dont ..surprise! Im over here! type thing.

unfortunately I through muscle memory wasnt thinking when I ended mission and didnt save the film

I got huge frame dumps looking at one Spit 16 (I'm talking from flat 60 to 30 all the way to 2 FPS very sparatically)....I killed the spit and game worked fine after....I'm starting to think certain skins are making the game not render properly.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

What would you have Hitech do differently?  He modeled his RV8 which he flies regularly and acrobatically and that helps him validate his flight model. What sort of input should over-ride his judgement and change fighter performance?

You tell me my man, you seem to be the expert. If you are indeed an aviator, this "power to idle vs Power OFF stalls/spins" video should raise an eyebrow. Something about these 4 forces is not quite right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=586lFSpIxsw

 I also find hard to believe you can apply full rudder in a Spitfire 16, let the speed bleed and yet maintain wings level with aileron input while still keeping full rudder and a few 1000s negative FPMs without entering a spin.

[FLS]

Do you have a video of an actual Spitfire spinning differently under the same conditions?

I'm not claiming the flight model is perfect or complete. There are things that aren't modeled like aileron reversal at high speeds.

I never claimed to be an expert. My dad's an expert, I'm clear on the difference.   

Any investigations of the flight model are better done with smoke or trails on in film to show the relative wind.

The question remains what should the criteria for changes be?  What change in the flight model would you make because of "that doesn't look right based on my experience not spinning Spitfires?"

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Did you watch the whole video? At 1:00 is the difference : engine off. This is why guys like Skyyr or StarFox shut they engine off briefly 'at the top'. What does not look right to me effect the pop forces have on the FM while at idle. One/or all of these 4 forces are way too strong and create the weird nose wobble as the stall is 'clean' when the engine is off. Dude, I don't have a PHD in aerodynamics, nor did I stalled a real life Spitfire or P47. The closest I have is a high torque single engine experience. I currently fly a 1,600HP turboprop with the power to weight ratio of a P51 and never ever on excessive nose high power to idle stalls did anything like the AH power to idle stall happens.

I encourage you to take a Spitfire and go do the manoeuvers I mentioned above and see what your dad thinks. To me HiTech probably has the best raw fight model in the industry and I cannot even begin to comprehend how he makes it happen, but there are still areas that stand as non convincing.

[FLS]

My dad wouldn't be interested. 

If you look at my videos you'll see I stall a Spit VIII.

I assume you're flying an aircraft designed with more inherent safety than a fighter.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm asking what specifically needs to change?

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Have you even read anything I wrote to you?   

[FLS]

You have an AH film video that doesn't show relative wind. Why does the nose wobble? Who can tell from that video?  Try stalling with smoke on. 

Your point is the flight model could be  more like real flying but you don't know what should change.

[Kanth]

I'm not a pilot but from what you have isolated in your testing.

It looks like a lack of dynamic torque.

Meaning Torque is ON with the engine OR OFF without the engine but not LESS when engine is idle and MORE when engine is full power.

So it's trying to figure out what should happen at plane is flat to the horizon, stall speeds, with engine full torque and full left rudder.

Or maybe it's not that black and white but perhaps engine idle needs less torque. Only one person knows and it's not me. 

[bustr]

Hey Frenchy, you still flying those commercial deliveries with that Dash7 out of Salt lake these days?

[FESS67]

Well, I go outback for work and come back to this.

I think it might be worth taking a breath and looking at the problem without being obtuse and argumentative.  Perhaps come at it inva more collaborative stance.

From that perspective,  do we even agree the problem exists?  I posted that it does,  others have posted the same experience.  I am not sure what the problem is, I just know it exists and a pissing contest about knowledge of flight dynamics seems to have got in the way of the hunt for the cause and ultimately the solution

[Shuffler]

Well, I go outback for work and come back to this.

I think it might be worth taking a breath and looking at the problem without being obtuse and argumentative.  Perhaps come at it inva more collaborative stance.

From that perspective,  do we even agree the problem exists?  I posted that it does,  others have posted the same experience.  I am not sure what the problem is, I just know it exists and a pissing contest about knowledge of flight dynamics seems to have got in the way of the hunt for the cause and ultimately the solution

Hardly a pissing contest. Looks to me like a great discussion. It has already been said that it is not on topic though.

As for the issue, it seems some folks see it and the rest have not. HiTech has film he can check and it will go from there.

[Randall172]

Here is the event, and this is why I want ah films because I can extract data.
Max yaw Angle off the vel vector is 64.2 not as you say almost 90.


Time 3.98 TotalAOA=1.1 PitchAOA=-0.8 YawAOA=0.8 Speed=241.7 Alt=431
Time 4.03 TotalAOA=1.2 PitchAOA=-0.9 YawAOA=0.8 Speed=241.9 Alt=432
Time 4.07 TotalAOA=1.2 PitchAOA=-0.9 YawAOA=0.8 Speed=242.0 Alt=432
Time 4.10 TotalAOA=1.3 PitchAOA=-1.1 YawAOA=0.8 Speed=242.1 Alt=432
Time 4.15 TotalAOA=1.7 PitchAOA=-1.4 YawAOA=0.9 Speed=242.3 Alt=433
Time 4.18 TotalAOA=2.0 PitchAOA=-1.8 YawAOA=1.0 Speed=242.3 Alt=433
Time 4.23 TotalAOA=2.9 PitchAOA=-2.6 YawAOA=1.2 Speed=242.5 Alt=433
Time 4.28 TotalAOA=3.8 PitchAOA=-3.5 YawAOA=1.6 Speed=242.5 Alt=434
Time 4.30 TotalAOA=4.4 PitchAOA=-4.0 YawAOA=1.8 Speed=242.6 Alt=434
Time 4.35 TotalAOA=5.9 PitchAOA=-5.3 YawAOA=2.6 Speed=242.6 Alt=435
Time 4.38 TotalAOA=6.9 PitchAOA=-6.2 YawAOA=3.1 Speed=242.6 Alt=435
Time 4.44 TotalAOA=9.0 PitchAOA=-7.8 YawAOA=4.4 Speed=242.4 Alt=436
Time 4.46 TotalAOA=10.2 PitchAOA=-8.7 YawAOA=5.4 Speed=242.3 Alt=437
Time 4.50 TotalAOA=11.7 PitchAOA=-9.7 YawAOA=6.6 Speed=242.0 Alt=438
Time 4.55 TotalAOA=14.0 PitchAOA=-11.0 YawAOA=8.7 Speed=241.5 Alt=439
Time 4.58 TotalAOA=15.7 PitchAOA=-11.8 YawAOA=10.4 Speed=241.1 Alt=441
Time 4.63 TotalAOA=18.4 PitchAOA=-12.8 YawAOA=13.3 Speed=240.2 Alt=443
Time 4.66 TotalAOA=20.0 PitchAOA=-13.2 YawAOA=15.1 Speed=239.6 Alt=444
Time 4.70 TotalAOA=21.9 PitchAOA=-13.6 YawAOA=17.4 Speed=238.8 Alt=446
Time 4.75 TotalAOA=24.5 PitchAOA=-13.9 YawAOA=20.4 Speed=237.6 Alt=449
Time 4.79 TotalAOA=26.2 PitchAOA=-14.1 YawAOA=22.3 Speed=236.6 Alt=452
Time 4.84 TotalAOA=28.5 PitchAOA=-14.4 YawAOA=24.9 Speed=235.2 Alt=455
Time 4.87 TotalAOA=29.8 PitchAOA=-14.5 YawAOA=26.3 Speed=234.3 Alt=457
Time 4.90 TotalAOA=31.1 PitchAOA=-14.5 YawAOA=27.8 Speed=233.3 Alt=460
Time 4.95 TotalAOA=32.9 PitchAOA=-14.3 YawAOA=29.9 Speed=231.7 Alt=464
Time 4.98 TotalAOA=34.1 PitchAOA=-14.0 YawAOA=31.5 Speed=230.5 Alt=467
Time 5.03 TotalAOA=35.8 PitchAOA=-13.3 YawAOA=33.5 Speed=228.8 Alt=472
Time 5.07 TotalAOA=37.0 PitchAOA=-12.6 YawAOA=35.1 Speed=227.5 Alt=475
Time 5.10 TotalAOA=38.1 PitchAOA=-12.0 YawAOA=36.5 Speed=226.4 Alt=478
Time 5.15 TotalAOA=39.9 PitchAOA=-11.0 YawAOA=38.6 Speed=224.6 Alt=483
Time 5.18 TotalAOA=41.1 PitchAOA=-10.3 YawAOA=40.1 Speed=223.4 Alt=486
Time 5.23 TotalAOA=43.0 PitchAOA=-9.3 YawAOA=42.2 Speed=221.9 Alt=491
Time 5.27 TotalAOA=44.5 PitchAOA=-8.4 YawAOA=43.9 Speed=220.5 Alt=495
Time 5.30 TotalAOA=45.9 PitchAOA=-7.7 YawAOA=45.5 Speed=219.4 Alt=498
Time 5.35 TotalAOA=48.2 PitchAOA=-6.3 YawAOA=47.9 Speed=217.6 Alt=503
Time 5.38 TotalAOA=49.6 PitchAOA=-5.5 YawAOA=49.4 Speed=216.5 Alt=505
Time 5.44 TotalAOA=52.1 PitchAOA=-4.0 YawAOA=52.0 Speed=214.5 Alt=510
Time 5.46 TotalAOA=53.5 PitchAOA=-3.2 YawAOA=53.4 Speed=213.4 Alt=513
Time 5.50 TotalAOA=55.1 PitchAOA=-2.1 YawAOA=55.1 Speed=212.1 Alt=516
Time 5.55 TotalAOA=57.3 PitchAOA=-0.6 YawAOA=57.3 Speed=210.1 Alt=520
Time 5.58 TotalAOA=58.8 PitchAOA=0.5 YawAOA=58.8 Speed=208.7 Alt=523
Time 5.63 TotalAOA=60.7 PitchAOA=2.2 YawAOA=60.7 Speed=206.6 Alt=527
Time 5.67 TotalAOA=61.9 PitchAOA=3.4 YawAOA=61.9 Speed=205.0 Alt=529
Time 5.70 TotalAOA=62.8 PitchAOA=4.4 YawAOA=62.7 Speed=203.7 Alt=532
Time 5.75 TotalAOA=63.9 PitchAOA=6.2 YawAOA=63.8 Speed=201.3 Alt=536
Time 5.78 TotalAOA=64.3 PitchAOA=7.2 YawAOA=64.1 Speed=199.9 Alt=538
Time 5.84 TotalAOA=64.5 PitchAOA=9.2 YawAOA=64.2 Speed=197.4 Alt=542
Time 5.87 TotalAOA=64.3 PitchAOA=10.3 YawAOA=63.9 Speed=196.0 Alt=545
Time 5.90 TotalAOA=63.9 PitchAOA=11.4 YawAOA=63.3 Speed=194.5 Alt=547
Time 5.95 TotalAOA=62.6 PitchAOA=12.9 YawAOA=61.9 Speed=192.2 Alt=551
Time 5.99 TotalAOA=61.5 PitchAOA=13.6 YawAOA=60.6 Speed=190.7 Alt=554
Time 6.04 TotalAOA=59.3 PitchAOA=14.0 YawAOA=58.3 Speed=188.6 Alt=558
Time 6.07 TotalAOA=57.9 PitchAOA=13.8 YawAOA=56.8 Speed=187.5 Alt=560
Time 6.10 TotalAOA=56.2 PitchAOA=13.3 YawAOA=55.2 Speed=186.3 Alt=562
Time 6.15 TotalAOA=53.6 PitchAOA=11.8 YawAOA=52.8 Speed=184.7 Alt=566
Time 6.18 TotalAOA=52.3 PitchAOA=10.6 YawAOA=51.5 Speed=183.8 Alt=568
Time 6.24 TotalAOA=50.0 PitchAOA=8.2 YawAOA=49.5 Speed=182.4 Alt=572
Time 6.27 TotalAOA=48.9 PitchAOA=6.8 YawAOA=48.6 Speed=181.8 Alt=574
Time 6.30 TotalAOA=47.7 PitchAOA=5.1 YawAOA=47.5 Speed=181.1 Alt=576
Time 6.35 TotalAOA=45.9 PitchAOA=2.6 YawAOA=45.9 Speed=180.0 Alt=579
Time 6.38 TotalAOA=45.0 PitchAOA=1.4 YawAOA=45.0 Speed=179.5 Alt=581
Time 6.42 TotalAOA=43.7 PitchAOA=-0.0 YawAOA=43.8 Speed=178.9 Alt=583
Time 6.47 TotalAOA=41.9 PitchAOA=-1.7 YawAOA=41.9 Speed=178.0 Alt=585
Time 6.50 TotalAOA=40.7 PitchAOA=-2.4 YawAOA=40.6 Speed=177.5 Alt=587
Time 6.56 TotalAOA=38.1 PitchAOA=-3.6 YawAOA=38.0 Speed=176.7 Alt=590
Time 6.58 TotalAOA=36.7 PitchAOA=-3.8 YawAOA=36.5 Speed=176.4 Alt=591
Time 6.62 TotalAOA=34.6 PitchAOA=-4.1 YawAOA=34.4 Speed=176.0 Alt=593
Time 6.67 TotalAOA=31.7 PitchAOA=-4.1 YawAOA=31.5 Speed=175.5 Alt=595
Time 6.70 TotalAOA=29.0 PitchAOA=-3.8 YawAOA=28.8 Speed=175.2 Alt=596
Time 6.75 TotalAOA=25.2 PitchAOA=-3.1 YawAOA=25.0 Speed=174.8 Alt=598
Time 6.78 TotalAOA=22.4 PitchAOA=-2.5 YawAOA=22.3 Speed=174.7 Alt=600
Time 6.82 TotalAOA=19.1 PitchAOA=-1.7 YawAOA=19.0 Speed=174.6 Alt=601
Time 6.87 TotalAOA=14.0 PitchAOA=-0.5 YawAOA=14.0 Speed=174.5 Alt=602
Time 6.90 TotalAOA=10.6 PitchAOA=0.2 YawAOA=10.6 Speed=174.6 Alt=603
Time 6.95 TotalAOA=5.5 PitchAOA=1.4 YawAOA=5.3 Speed=174.8 Alt=605
Time 6.99 TotalAOA=2.8 PitchAOA=2.1 YawAOA=1.8 Speed=174.9 Alt=606
Time 7.02 TotalAOA=2.7 PitchAOA=2.6 YawAOA=-0.8 Speed=175.1 Alt=606
Time 7.07 TotalAOA=6.6 PitchAOA=3.4 YawAOA=-5.7 Speed=175.4 Alt=608
Time 7.10 TotalAOA=8.8 PitchAOA=3.6 YawAOA=-8.0 Speed=175.6 Alt=608




I really do not know what you expect but   scrubbing 65mph in 2 secs is a fairly rapped deceleration177.

That deceleration scrubbed about 53% of your energy in 2 secs.

HiTech

How do you do this?!?!

[The Fugitive]

Pull the data or slow the plane down?

He is the owner/code writer of the game. He has amny tools available, that are NOT avaialable to the public, that he can use to figure out what is going on. That is why he said he likes to have film from the game.

[Dobs]

RE: RUFUS and AOA...



Worth watching...

[save]

At what speed doe the F4u compress flying backwards   

Not quite sure if you're saying that's new behavior, but the F4Us were easy to get to fly backwards in 2 as well.  I used to be able to do it at will and quite often unintentionally if I pressed a rolling scissor too hard in AHII.  Just trying to add info.

Wiley.