Tracer smoke moves wrong way in turn fight

[nrshida]

You'll kick yourself when you get this Dobs.

All the tracers are basically showing is that your nose is pitched UP relative to your actual flightpath. These kinds of aircraft don't turn at all without alpha. Whatever the curve you're flying there is always going to be a positive angle between that and your boresight - otherwise, no turn. Think about the buffeting and stall horn, that's indicating the incoming airflow is beginning to separate from the wing as you approach the upper limit to this angle of attack. That proves there must be an angle between the two vectors.

For an extreme example, imagine an aircraft firing continuously through this manoeuvre:-



To the pilot tracers would appear to go waaaaaaaaay up above his canopy. You're just seeing the same to a lesser degree.

Fly a bunt and fire, bet you don't see the tracers at all from inside.

[Dobs]

The P38 carries a lot more alpha than I thought until you  hit 255mph...
See the pics to see the difference between 221mph and 255mph..

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYdjV5T19oT2lWSGM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYcHRMN0NwMmRhTlk/view?usp=sharing

I think it is the fact that the smoke is persistent for bullet TOF that is throwing me.

Can't seem to find WWII footage with tracers/tracer smoke...  the way the game has it modeled it is correct visually for the model....

[LCADolby]

The better term is flying. Drifting implies skidding which also happens in aircraft but that's not happening here. Cars don't really help you understand airplanes.

Actually they do help, because it is drifting. If it wasn't the flight path vector would always be the angle of attack.

[FLS]

Actually they do help, because it is drifting. If it wasn't the flight path vector would always be the angle of attack.

The flight path and AOA only coincide at 0 g, aka the zero lift AOA, which is not happening in a turn. It really is called "flying".

The closest thing to drifting in a car, other than slips or skids, would be flying with a reduction of lift at high AOA as in landing.

When you think about flying keep in mind that lift is more low pressure above the wing than high pressure under the wing.

[hitech]

In many ways wheels are similar to airfoils .

When you turn your front wheels they generate an AOA with the road/velocity vector. This AOA generates a side force and pushes the front of the car into the turn, to much AOA and the tire will / stall (under steer) I.E. start to skid and more AOA creates less slide force. The front of the car moving into the turn will start to generate an AOA on the rear tires and they also start pushing into the turn.

HiTech

[FLS]

In many ways wheels are similar to airfoils .

When you turn your front wheels they generate an AOA with the road/velocity vector. This AOA generates a side force and pushes the front of the car into the turn, to much AOA and the tire will / stall (under steer) I.E. start to skid and more AOA creates less slide force. The front of the car moving into the turn will start to generate an AOA on the rear tires and they also start pushing into the turn.

HiTech

Tire slip angle is like critical AOA.   

Bicycles give a good lesson in energy management. 

I believe Dolby was looking at your diagram and thinking you were sinking into the flight path.

[LCADolby]

See Rule #4

[FLS]

See Rule #4

[nrshida]

See Rule #4

[Mar]

See Rule #4

[FLS]

HiTech's the boss, I'm just the head trainer.

If he wants flight training in jeeps we'll do flight training in jeeps.   

[nrshida]

See Rule #4

[Dobs]

Wriggle wriggle. 

Are you convinced now Dobs? I certainly learned something new with this thread. Thanks.

Yes.....alot about people, their opinions of themselves, and how the game is modeled.

Did you by chance look at my post with the pictures showing 1G level flight at 221mph and 250mph?

[FLS]

Dobs I hope you at least learned that the velocity vector creates the relative wind.

[nrshida]

Yes.....alot about people, their opinions of themselves, and how the game is modeled.

Did you by chance look at my post with the pictures showing 1G level flight at 221mph and 250mph?

I wasn't implying it was you that was wriggling my friend. I did look at your pictures. Can you get the same angle flying through the bottom of a loop at corner speed?