A thought on "balance" for FSO Götterdämmerung - The Fall of Berlin

[Dantoo]

The Allies are getting out planned and executed.

The distances are short and its easy for the Axis to sit back and defend while the Allies rush in to attack at frame start and then come late on the offensive. That way the Axis has numbers at the point of contact in all engagements.

If the Allies were patient enough to hold the attacks until T+55 the Axis would be denied this exploit and would be forced to defend while their attacks happen.

Its not rocket science what is happening.

It certainly isn't rocket science, I agree.

Given that in these last 2 frames (and the next as it stands) the Axis knows without any doubt that due to fuel burn, that the Allies have to come early and they simply prep for it.  Following your reasoning precisely, they then know they only have to wait to wait til H+55 to attack with their now overwhelming force.

 How about reduce the fuel burn to .8 and then that removes the ever-tiresome eastern front tactic of the Axis not attacking until H+55?

[Devil 505]

There are other reason's to attack as late as possible. In fact, fuel burn was barely a consideration in my orders.

[j500ss]

Maybe the Allied commanders should have capitalized their advantages better. You guys have the La7 - and lots of them. It is easily the best prop plane in this setup. The average pilot has no better means to find success that with that plane. The Yak3 is a nearly perfect plane to fly - only it's gun package limits ability to kill compared to the La7. Our best fighter is the K-4, which required a finer touch of the controls and much better aim to find success. The Dora can't compete against the La or Yak in any way except for top speed at altitude. The Ta 152 is a total dog below 15K and we have only 4 jets. Both require great skill to fly competently in. The only clear advantage the Axis has is the Ar 234. It is a great way to rack up points with it's ability to mount multiple strikes. Also, the Axis must field 20 190A-8's - easy meat for any soviet fighter.

Please do not take this the wrong way, but perhaps you and the Allied Cic from frame 2 should switch roles in frame 3.  His squad goes Axis, yours goes Allied.   You plan the frame, fly the frame, and you all see if it is in fact a planning issue, or perhaps something deeper.

Just a thought from the outside looking in.

 

[oakranger]

Maybe the Allied commanders should have capitalized their advantages better. You guys have the La7 - and lots of them. It is easily the best prop plane in this setup. The average pilot has no better means to find success that with that plane. The Yak3 is a nearly perfect plane to fly - only it's gun package limits ability to kill compared to the La7. Our best fighter is the K-4, which required a finer touch of the controls and much better aim to find success. The Dora can't compete against the La or Yak in any way except for top speed at altitude. The Ta 152 is a total dog below 15K and we have only 4 jets. Both require great skill to fly competently in. The only clear advantage the Axis has is the Ar 234. It is a great way to rack up points with it's ability to mount multiple strikes. Also, the Axis must field 20 190A-8's - easy meat for any soviet fighter.

La-7 can not catch a 262 or 234.  Even if they had alt and speed.

From what my squad have witness, k-4, 152 and Dora out ran the La.  and you worried about how they preformed below 15k, try fighting the La above 15k.  They can't do well, I know this because I face off against a La-7 many time while in the P-47D-25.....and won.

I don't think it wasCiC planning, I believe the set up favors more on the axis and question, since FSO is historic base setup, if K-4, Dora's, 152, 234 saw action on defesive against the Russians in the battle of Berlin. With the numbers I see on the rides I see a red flag on the whole set-up.

[Spikes]

Because there are other scenarios that was 40/60. 

I don't get it. Your first post said that the setup should give the Allies a 10%+ advantage, then your next post says you were not pushing for a 10% advantage.

[Devil 505]

La-7 can not catch a 262 or 234.  Even if they had alt and speed.

From what my squad have witness, k-4, 152 and Dora out ran the La.  and you worried about how they preformed below 15k, try fighting the La above 15k.  They can't do well, I know this because I face off against a La-7 many time while in the P-47D-25.....and won.

I don't think it wasCiC planning, I believe the set up favors more on the axis and question, since FSO is historic base setup, if K-4, Dora's, 152, 234 saw action on defesive against the Russians in the battle of Berlin. With the numbers I see on the rides I see a red flag on the whole set-up.

14 total kills for the 262's over the 2 frames. You're losing to the meat and potatoes of the Luftwaffe not the gravy.

[Devil 505]

double post

[oakranger]

I don't get it. Your first post said that the setup should give the Allies a 10%+ advantage, then your next post says you were not pushing for a 10% advantage.

Yes,  as I look into it more it dose favor the axis at the same time,  historically,  allies out numbers the luft by 44-45.  Thus this should be a 40/60 set up.

[oakranger]

And why isn't anybody challaegen me on my questionable planes the luft has in compare to real battle?

[Devil 505]

And why isn't anybody challaegen me on my questionable planes the luft has in compare to real battle?

Questionable? The only thing in question here is your grasp on history.

[oakranger]

Questionable? The only thing in question here is your grasp on history.

So you are saying that I am wrong?

[waystin2]

Hey wasn't last month supposedly stacked in the Allies favor?    I stand by my earlier comment.  Any given Friday...

[Devil 505]

So you are saying that I am wrong?

That's exactly what I'm saying. The Luftwaffe planes in this setup are exactly what was used in May of '45. Sure, there were G-14's as well, but I don't see you guys using any P-39's or Il-2's either.

[Dantoo]

There are other reason's to attack as late as possible. In fact, fuel burn was barely a consideration in my orders.

Cool and no problems at all from me on that.

It takes about about 15-20 mins to get the Arados up to a useful height and ...........well I don't know what the other considerations would be other than direction of approach? There's always something that chews up time. 

The suggestion that the Allies should avoid fighting for the first hour is bit that has brought me to post.  If Axis aren't worrying about fuel burn for the Allied and aren't trying to avoid fighting for an hour, so that they don't have to fight at the hour, because the defenders are all landing for fuel, then what we have is a perception problem.

Now given that thought, I'm sure you will fully support the fuel burn rate change. Its impact is almost zero beyond simple perception.
Thanks.
 
I'm still a bit mystified by the original poster's thought that the Allied side should delay their attacks til the H+55 timeframe as well?  At that point we would have opposing groups less than 50 miles apart flying circles avoiding combat for an hour in FSO.  Let's advance on that and go for the full 2 hours!

[oakranger]

That's exactly what I'm saying. The Luftwaffe planes in this setup are exactly what was used in May of '45. Sure, there were G-14's as well, but I don't see you guys using any P-39's or Il-2's either.

Back it up.  Show me your sources and prove me wrong.  I only question it because I am challenging if it is historically correct.