737 almost beaches

[Ripsnort]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ialaXUiSFe8

[Vraciu]

It happens.

The wind there can get squirrelly sometimes.

Making the decision to go around is one of the toughest ones to make because guys are so conditioned to complete the mission.

Good call by the crew to abandon an unstabilized approach and live to fly another day.

[DaveBB]

So they got a bit into ground effect.  I'm sure the FAA will overreact.

Way better than the old days of the 737's rudder causing the plane to roll out of control.

[Busher]

So they got a bit into ground effect.  I'm sure the FAA will overreact.

Way better than the old days of the 737's rudder causing the plane to roll out of control.

Won't be the FAA. WestJet is Canada's second largest airline.

[Vraciu]

So they got a bit into ground effect.  I'm sure the FAA will overreact.

Way better than the old days of the 737's rudder causing the plane to roll out of control.

It will likely be handled internally by the airline.   Self-disclosure.   It's a possible wind shear event any way.   It doesn't take much to wind up behind the power curve in a situation like that. 

[Vraciu]

Some are saying they busted minimums on the approach.   More research needed.  I shall return.

[Vraciu]

So....

TNCM...

The RNAV 10 MDA is 688'.  The VOR Z is 486'.   

The clouds are well above mins it looks like...

Without more data it's impossible to know what happened.   It will come out in the wash. 

[SPKmes]

they just wanted to freak out all the tourists that gather there to watch

[Serenity]

So....

TNCM...

The RNAV 10 MDA is 688'.  The VOR Z is 486'.   

The clouds are well above mins it looks like...

Without more data it's impossible to know what happened.   It will come out in the wash.

Yeah, WX looks good. Might just have been a lifty followed by a sinky... Been struggling with that lately on the ball. You hit a nice little gust that pushes you up above glideslope, pull power to get back on level, and JUST as your engine spools down, you hit a sink and the bottom drops out

[Zimme83]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=0uPTdKwWo78&app=desktop Gives a better view of the weather conditions. Seems like they ended up below glide slope and had to go around. It seems like the the weather was very close to minimums (partly confirmed here http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1357497 )

[Vraciu]

Yeah, WX looks good. Might just have been a lifty followed by a sinky... Been struggling with that lately on the ball. You hit a nice little gust that pushes you up above glideslope, pull power to get back on level, and JUST as your engine spools down, you hit a sink and the bottom drops out

Yeah, and the engines on a 737 probably spool slower than your T-45 does, too. 

In the Legacy we can get max thrust from idle in 7 seconds or less.   It spools super fast for a jet.  Even with that capability you can wind up behind if you don't anticipate.   

In your case I suspect you'll develop that sixth sense in time.   Just takes repetition and some calibration between your arms and the seat of your pants.  Most guys pull too much power for too long and then go OH CRIKEY.  It will come. 

I imagine the rooster tail gets your attention and takes some getting used to.   

[Vraciu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=0uPTdKwWo78&app=desktop Gives a better view of the weather conditions. Seems like they ended up below glide slope and had to go around. It seems like the the weather was very close to minimums (partly confirmed here http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1357497 )

That airport has no ILS so no vertical guidance.   I don't know if they can couple to the VNAV all the way to the threshold or not on a 737.   The wind was howling as it often does there.  Unstabilized approaches are not unheard of for all the reasons one can think of including fatigue.   

They made the right decision.    The fact they're being crucified in public is one of the reasons guys are so resistant to go arounds.   It raises flags and causes questions that then have to be justified when a pat on the back is usually appropriate. 

I'd really like to see the video from a point ten seconds earlier for context.   The power was already way up before they reached their lowest point.   Something external is going on there, IMO. 

[Vraciu]

Another thing to consider is that if you are descending and initiate a go around, particularly in a large aircraft, you will continue to lose height.

My airplane is relatively light compared to a 737.   Our autopilot-coupled go around height loss is 75'.    These guys made the decision to abandon the approach prior to where the video starts.   Context is everything.   

[colmbo]

T The fact they're being crucified in public is one of the reasons guys are so resistant to go arounds.   It raises flags and causes questions that then have to be justified when a pat on the back is usually appropriate.

Perhaps, but the flag is much bigger if you don't go around and crash.

[colmbo]

Another thing to consider is that if you are descending and initiate a go around, particularly in a large aircraft, you will continue to lose height.

Even though the B-24 is piston it takes a while to get power up on it since we do the approach with the props back to 2000RPM -- the slow bellybutton electric governor controls have to get the revs up before you can push the throttles up!!

Short final into Prescott Valley, a little gusty but not bad, totally unfamiliar with the area.  We were getting +/- 10mph or so all the way down final until really close in the bottom dropped out. I called for climb power and was working the throttles up as quickly as the prop governors would allow all the time sinking toward ground --- actually wondered if we were going to touch down short --- stopped sinking, called for gear up then flaps 20 for the go, about mid field got a left turn for "a pass" over the arrival crowd as if it was all planned.    It's okay to crash, but ya gotta look cool doing it.