Author Topic: Penalty For Bomb And Bail  (Read 6714 times)

Offline JimmyC

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #75 on: June 28, 2017, 07:09:08 PM »
I'm not saying i have all the answers, but:

(Image removed from quote.)


and they would have to return to base to get points for a better plane.


Instead of giving penalty to people, I would be rewarding them, with a penalty people could just alt + f4, with a reward they want to return to base and play.

Your plan just makes it easy for vets to pick on newbs in toejame planes..bad plan..learning curve tough enough..you would drive off new players in droves
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 07:34:40 PM by JimmyC »
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #76 on: June 28, 2017, 08:21:24 PM »
<Some Deleted>
Again i feel like opponents should be awarded kills if you bail but i shouldnt feel like i have to fly back if its boring to do so.

Right.  Because you are playing an arcade game.  While I am enjoying a flight simulator game.  In a flight simulator game the flight is not over until you land the plane, or get shot down trying.
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Offline RedBeard

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #77 on: June 28, 2017, 09:32:03 PM »
There's a spectrum of award / penalty that can be used.  Today, I get marginal satisfaction of seeing someone bail if I chase them down.  It's good enough to know that I'm either preventing them from reaching a target or preventing them from receiving all the perk pts they would have received if they did get home.  Would I prefer a kill?  Sure!  But I wouldn't be that upset if they did it.  However, giving me a kill doesn't change anything for the bailer.  It's the wrong incentive.

We need to think about this some more.  I think that if we see growing numbers of players again, then we will see more video arcade style of play as these new players will not be steeped in our culture.  It would probably be a good idea to think about how we incent people to behave appropriately.  The current perk point bias towards landing missions is a start, but we're going to need to evaluate the arcade style point optimization that will be done.  For example, when HQ goes down today, I see people resupplying by flying C-47s over, making a drop, then bailing and doing it again.  This is because the benefit of rapid resupply outweighs the cost of bailing.

To get around that issue, there would need to be some cost of not returning your plane.  Today, we do that with the perk system.  To take advantage of that, we would need to ensure that bombing a target (or resupply) and bailing reduces the perk points more than the bonus received (after the deduction for not returning to base) from the mission in the first place.  Then if every plane had at least one perk point of cost (except one plane/vehicle of each class which would have 0 perk point cost), then we would have an incentive for people to try to return from their missions.

Unfortunately, that kind of a perk system makes it tough on new people who don't have the skills to last long and earn perks.  They would be stuck with a single fighter / attack / bomber / vehicle until they started living long enough to earn perk points.  However, this is probably not much different than how War Thunder works with the skill tree.  The difference here is that a skill tree is an always positively increasing capability while the perk system has ups and downs depending on how well you are flying at the moment.

If one of each class is too restrictive, then make it once of each country of each class.  In the end it becomes a tuning of perk costs / rewards that finds a happy balance (e.g. perk formations but not singles?).

I don't know that this will solve the bailing issue as there would essentially be no penalty if flying a no perk plane, but it might help reduce the frequency and help teach the culture of AH as well.

It would also have an impact on other things as well.  Think about base attack / defense.  Would you continue to up fighters for field defense of a capped base if you knew that every one that you upped was likely to cost you perk points?  It might with the right balance, or it might just teach our culture that it's a better idea to not do that.  Would we see an increase in BnZ over furball as furballing would be a higher risk tactic than BnZ and your chance of losing a perk'd furballing aircraft would therefore be higher.

The above can be somewhat mitigated by making the 0 perk planes good furballers.  Then noone worries about taking them out and losing them and in the end, it's a personal choice for risk / reward.

There are probably holes in this, but the idea is simple.  Use the existing perk system as a means to guide people to fly in an expected manner.

Offline atlau

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #78 on: June 28, 2017, 09:43:10 PM »
Right.  Because you are playing an arcade game.  While I am enjoying a flight simulator game.  In a flight simulator game the flight is not over until you land the plane, or get shot down trying.

Is ditching a fighter rather than flying back also poor sportsmanship? If you attack my buffs ill stick around to defend. But if there is more action elsewhere and no atrackers id rather get there quicker by bailing.

Offline nugetx

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2017, 01:32:32 AM »
I think the players here are greatly underestimating 'new players' ability to play a game.

This is a game, not rocket science, a flight simmer who players other flight games will pick this one up instantly, a new player who never played a flight sim might have trouble especialy if he does not have a stick, but not because there is an 'insane' learning curve, it would be just because he never played a game of this type, and a player like that would just need to play a game like this for a period of time.

When I started my journey with online flying 20 years ago I got constantly my 6 whooped, but that didn't drove me off, I kept playing and enjoyed the game, no one 'cared' for me that i'm a 'new player'

It's just a part of life that a old vet at first would be killing a 'new player' in a 'worse' plane. But the new player would eventualy get there and he would have a better plane himself, and he wouldn't be a new player anymore.

If someone likes flight sims he would stay and play, if he would quit it just would mean this type of game is not for him and he came just to try it out.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 01:42:03 AM by nugetx »

Offline JimmyC

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2017, 01:48:30 AM »
Ok..come fly a spit 1 for 1 month and see how fun it is..
Good luck
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Offline nugetx

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2017, 02:02:06 AM »
Ok..come fly a spit 1 for 1 month and see how fun it is..
Good luck

For me it is great fun to fly early war planes, and you wouldn't have to fly THAT long.

I think the early war fights are even more fun than the late war fights,  because early war planes are more focuse on dogfight rather than energy fight.  Meaning more turning and less running.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2017, 04:55:48 AM »
Here's a thought.  Enable EW rides at VBases and ports.    Maybe they will get flown more. 
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Offline popeye

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2017, 08:44:51 AM »
How about modifying the downtime of the objects that were destroyed by the bailer (or suicide jabo)?

Let's say I bomb town buildings, and the normal downtime would be 30 minutes.  If I die/bail within 10 minutes, the building downtime is reduced to 10 minutes.  If I survive beyond 10 minutes, or safely land, there would be no reduction of the downtime.

This would limit the effectiveness of the bomb-and-bail (or suicide jabo) tactic, providing an incentive to survive and land without restricting plane choice or penalizing new players.  It would also make defending a field more effective than running supplies, since killing the attacker within 10 minutes would be as good as running two resupply sorties.  And it would add a bit of "realism":  survival = good,  death = bad.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 09:17:02 AM by popeye »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2017, 11:22:44 AM »
How about modifying the downtime of the objects that were destroyed by the bailer (or suicide jabo)?

Let's say I bomb town buildings, and the normal downtime would be 30 minutes.  If I die/bail within 10 minutes, the building downtime is reduced to 10 minutes.  If I survive beyond 10 minutes, or safely land, there would be no reduction of the downtime.

This would limit the effectiveness of the bomb-and-bail (or suicide jabo) tactic, providing an incentive to survive and land without restricting plane choice or penalizing new players.  It would also make defending a field more effective than running supplies, since killing the attacker within 10 minutes would be as good as running two resupply sorties.  And it would add a bit of "realism":  survival = good,  death = bad.

That's not particularly fair to the bomber pilot that gets jumped over target.  He shouldn't be penalized for getting his bombs off on target and then getting killed by another player within ten minutes of his drop.  Killing the attacker before he drops is also as good as running 2 resupply sorties, which is how it should be IMO.

Wiley.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2017, 03:27:56 PM »
Is ditching a fighter rather than flying back also poor sportsmanship?

Yes.  The flight is not over until you land the plane, or get shot down trying.  Otherwise you might as well be sitting in front of your Xbox.
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Offline FORK2

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2017, 04:08:21 PM »
Sadly there is precedent for the Bomb and Bail, it was called the Doolittle raid. DO I like bomb and bailers HECK NO, may they all rot in the nether regions.

On the other hand I sure respect the sheer cussiness of the SOB that would game the system like that, the loosy %%$  &*^% and  %%$#!!! and  furthermore may they $$##$ themselves and ALL their offspring as well.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2017, 04:19:53 PM »
Sadly there is precedent for the Bomb and Bail, it was called the Doolittle raid. DO I like bomb and bailers HECK NO, may they all rot in the nether regions.

On the other hand I sure respect the sheer cussiness of the SOB that would game the system like that, the loosy %%$  &*^% and  %%$#!!! and  furthermore may they $$##$ themselves and ALL their offspring as well.

No Doolittle Raider bailed while being intercepted.    Also, this was an extreme case.  The plan was to land.   Circumstances intervened. 
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Offline FORK2

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2017, 04:42:24 PM »
Point taken, the Doolittle raid was different from the bomb and bailer in AH who has plenty of fuel left.

 Should we do something about it? Maybe, but is it really that big of a pain that Hi Tech should write code for it? Code that will assuredly upset the guys who are doing it?

 I'm more for allowing ppl to play how they want, to give them MORE flexibility, rather than restricting playability trying to get ppl to play how a few crotchety old timers want them to play.

 Even if I am one of those crotchety guys who hate the tactic.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Penalty For Bomb And Bail
« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2017, 05:31:04 PM »
Point taken, the Doolittle raid was different from the bomb and bailer in AH who has plenty of fuel left.

 Should we do something about it? Maybe, but is it really that big of a pain that Hi Tech should write code for it? Code that will assuredly upset the guys who are doing it?

 I'm more for allowing ppl to play how they want, to give them MORE flexibility, rather than restricting playability trying to get ppl to play how a few crotchety old timers want them to play.

 Even if I am one of those crotchety guys who hate the tactic.

Let them play how they want.  But stop allowing them to grief me after I've wasted half an hour chasing them down. 
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