RPS + perks in one proposal

[Wiley]

And if they fly the one-uber-latewar-plane to 'own' other players..... wouldnt this give them even more incentive to have that  uber plane knowing that other playears are still in spit 1 ?  bigger chance for 'owning noobs'.


I can see suddenly the grin on those players faces.

...and the punching bag newbs do what in this scenario?  Oh, right.  They will just bear down and get better because fighting against people who have more skill plus an equipment advantage encourages them at every turn.  There's no way they'd get frustrated and quit.

I cannot show you in AH, because MA was never it to my knowledge.... but every other flight sim game is AvA, people are EXPECTING a WW2 game to be AvA, once they see that it's not, they just go away.

I didn't say AvA, I said RPS.  Surely there is plethora of examples of an RPS being used in games like this that have worked, right?

If what you say above is the case, AvA's on the left.  Why's it empty?

What do you mean paid?  Everything would be as it is now, you would first need to fly to get enough perks.

Which would be trivial for a vet.  Paid with their perks.  They've got them, they use them.

And Spit 1 player goes after him for the fat points !  This is great excitement to me.

And can't begin to catch up with him or climb with him, unless the Spit 9 pilot's a complete numpty, the Spit I gets killed.

So just make it when he logs, he looses the 1 plane out of the pool.

He never launched it.  He just didn't bother launching anything and logged.

As currently, you would be getting points for doing damage and other targets, so you don't have to be superman to get a better plane, maybe even we would see more players playing differently, to get points for more things.

Ah yes... the awe inspiring ground attack ability of the Spit I.

This gives incentive for early and mid planes, currently there is very little, and this is only expanding on what is currently, so how it is not better gameplay?

Ah... you're expanding on current gameplay by restricting what people can do.  Gotcha. 

'worse' is a subjective term, because when players play long enough they get better. New players even in late war planes will perform poor.

Is it better to everyone fly late war plane?

It's better to not limit peoples' options.

If people wanted AvA, the AvA arena would be populated.  If people wanted mid or late war matchups, those arenas would've been populated.

Wiley.

[Dobs]

"If people wanted AvA, the AvA arena would be populated.  If people wanted mid or late war matchups, those arenas would've been populated."

Its more along the lines of cows...one cow in a field does what he wants. One cow in a herd, goes where the herd goes..

Wouldn't recommend splitting arena's with current map size and players and ability NOT to fly....

If anything, I'd have an arcade style arena (like War Thunder) for the noobs to cut their teeth in.

Those who want more can wander over to the Melee in their baby seal outfits....

[Wiley]

"If people wanted AvA, the AvA arena would be populated.  If people wanted mid or late war matchups, those arenas would've been populated."

Its more along the lines of cows...one cow in a field does what he wants. One cow in a herd, goes where the herd goes..

True but if AvA was a driving force, why did the MA become popular?

Wiley.

[nugetx]

...and the punching bag newbs do what in this scenario?  Oh, right.  They will just bear down and get better because fighting against people who have more skill plus an equipment advantage encourages them at every turn.  There's no way they'd get frustrated and quit.

It's not as simple as that..... many more factors would come in play, i know that you know about them also. Like you said,  would a spit 9 pilot would want to fight vs spit 1 potentialy risking his plane uses?

the higher tier planes would have much more to loose than lower tier planes.

I didn't say AvA, I said RPS.  Surely there is plethora of examples of an RPS being used in games like this that have worked, right?

AvA and RPS usualy go hand in hand,  look at IL 2 1946, cliffs of dover, rise of flight, the new Il-2 all AvA and RPS.

If what you say above is the case, AvA's on the left.  Why's it empty?

It's more of a mental thing currently in AH. People flock were people are, no one is at AvA so no one goes there.
If there was only one WW2 arena everyone would be there.

Which would be trivial for a vet.  Paid with their perks.  They've got them, they use them.

About that perk reset......

And can't begin to catch up with him or climb with him, unless the Spit 9 pilot's a complete numpty, the Spit I gets killed.

Then the spit I deserved it..... a good pilot in spit I would not do that..... a new player will learn

Ah yes... the awe inspiring ground attack ability of the Spit I.

Still.... there is the damage

Ah... you're expanding on current gameplay by restricting what people can do.  Gotcha. 

mmm..... again it's a mental thing..... adding layers of complexity gives players incentive to do things in different ways to achieve different things.
Giving players different paths of gameplay, leads to different people playing in various ways. A game is not real life.... untill a game simulates real life 100%, you need to have systems which lead players in one way or other, otherwise a game will not be a game.

It's better to not limit peoples' options.

You see it as limiting, I see it as expanding.

[Wiley]

It's not as simple as that..... many more factors would come in play, i know that you know about them also. Like you said,  would a spit 9 pilot would want to fight vs spit 1 potentialy risking his plane uses?

If he's at advantage, why wouldn't he?  He loses advantage, he walks away from the fight.  No different than a 262 in the MA today.

AvA and RPS usualy go hand in hand,  look at IL 2 1946, cliffs of dover, rise of flight, the new Il-2 all AvA and RPS.

Single player portions where you go through your career.  When it's multiplayer time, you fly the matchups you want to fly.  You don't have to grind multiplayer to fly the planes you want.

It's more of a mental thing currently in AH. People flock were people are, no one is at AvA so no one goes there.
If there was only one WW2 arena everyone would be there.

Again.  AvA's been around here for long enough.  Why isn't it full if that's what people actually want?

About that perk reset......

Yeah.  Good luck with that idea.

Then the spit I deserved it..... a good pilot in spit I would not do that..... a new player will learn

So the Spit I doesn't chase the retreating Spit IX because he knows he can't catch him...  So no fight occurs.  Do you see the problem here?

Showing players different paths of gameplay, is an indication of good game design, having no path is bad for gameplay.

There are multitudes of games that tell you where to go and what to do.  Why do you insist on changing one of the rare exceptions to be like them?  Why not go play something that already is doing what you want to be doing?

Wiley.

[nugetx]

If he's at advantage, why wouldn't he?  He loses advantage, he walks away from the fight.  No different than a 262 in the MA today.

This is tit for tat..... if 262 is starting from the field and spit I is vulching him... spit I has the advantage. Everything depends on the situation.

Single player portions where you go through your career.  When it's multiplayer time, you fly the matchups you want to fly.  You don't have to grind multiplayer to fly the planes you want.

Yes but this is a purely online game.... there needs to be the hook, to keep people for long time, as a player myself, I proposed something which I think of would be as enjoyable.

Again.  AvA's been around here for long enough.  Why isn't it full if that's what people actually want?

No idea.

So the Spit I doesn't chase the retreating Spit IX because he knows he can't catch him...  So no fight occurs.  Do you see the problem here?

but in the skies it's impossible to cherry pick fights..... in the end you will end up in a fight surprised by other plane, if a few fights will be a stalemate, so be it.

There are multitudes of games that tell you where to go and what to do. 

I'm -not-  saying to have a game where you are told where to go and what to do. The game systems designed correctly do it by themselves.

For example: to fly the me 262, you know you need the perk points,  so you keep the perk points to fly the plane.  - the game system tells you what to do, without telling you to 'go past this hill and kill 5 trees'. How you do it, it is up to you.

[Ack-Ack]

It's not as simple as that..... many more factors would come in play, i know that you know about them also. Like you said,  would a spit 9 pilot would want to fight vs spit 1 potentialy risking his plane uses?

the higher tier planes would have much more to loose than lower tier planes.

Basically that ends up promoting a non-fight. 

AvA and RPS usualy go hand in hand,  look at IL 2 1946, cliffs of dover, rise of flight, the new Il-2 all AvA and RPS.

Those games aren't similar to AH, as they are single player games with a multiplayer component.  Also, the multiplayer in those games isn't necessarily going to be RPS, that all depends on the game mode on whatever server you wish to play on

It's more of a mental thing currently in AH. People flock were people are, no one is at AvA so no one goes there.
If there was only one WW2 arena everyone would be there.

Why do people flock to the Melee Arena and not the AvA, or the Early/Mid-War arenas (despite the MW arena have the best plane match up) when those two arenas were around?  Because people really don't like to be limited on what and when they can fly the plane of their choice. 

If there was only a single arena using the system you've proposed, there soon wouldn't be a game to host that arena before too long.

Then the spit I deserved it..... a good pilot in spit I would not do that..... a new player will learn

All you've done is create a frustrated player, one that will most likely not go past his free trial if he feels he's become nothing more than a constant baby seal just waiting to be clubbed each time he gets into a fighter.

You see it as limiting, I see it as expanding.

Restricting and ultimately penalizing (new/casual players) with your proposed system is hardly what one could call "expanding".

[Wiley]

This is tit for tat..... if 262 is starting from the field and spit I is vulching him... spit I has the advantage. Everything depends on the situation.

Again.  The 262 driver is a complete numpty in that example.  Nobody would do that with a limited access plane.  They're coming from 1 or 2 fields over.

Yes but this is a purely online game.... there needs to be the hook, to keep people for long time, as a player myself, I proposed something which I think of would be as enjoyable.

So... you have no examples of it working in a game similar to this one, where people have provided an example of it being wildly unpopular in a game that's very similar to this one.

but in the skies it's impossible to cherry pick fights..... in the end you will end up in a fight surprised by other plane, if a few fights will be a stalemate, so be it.

If you have SA and are flying conservatively in the fastest thing available, the number of times this happens dwindles to near 0.

I'm -not-  saying to have a game where you are told where to go and what to do. The game systems designed correctly do it by themselves.

Ok I'll play.  The only thing you have available to you is a Spit I.  Explain the profoundly wide options you have in gameplay.

For example: to fly the me 262, you know you need the perk points,  so you keep the perk points to fly the plane.  - the game system tells you what to do, without telling you to 'go past this hill and kill 5 trees'. How you do it, it is up to you.

And the player has the effective tools to do it with.  Under your system, they don't.

Wiley.

[hitech]

Everyone here who has created an RPS. Please raise Your hand.

 


HiTech

[Wiley]

Everyone here who has created an RPS. Please raise Your hand.

 


HiTech

That was the first time in WBs, right?  I've heard old players say it was wildly unpopular.  Their bias, or true?

Wiley.

[bustr]

Everyone here who has created an RPS. Please raise Your hand.

 


HiTech

From experience, when you do this, it's the other shoe you drop, if you choose to, that is more important to see.

The new and old laundry getting corked in this post is loosing it's buzz.

[nugetx]

So... you have no examples of it working in a game similar to this one, where people have provided an example of it being wildly unpopular in a game that's very similar to this one.

Yes I have none, because Aces High would be the first one to do this.

Ok I'll play.  The only thing you have available to you is a Spit I.  Explain the profoundly wide options you have in gameplay.

Ok, but first you need to set your mind accordingly.

You have to think now that you are playing the rps + perk system AH (and idealy ava also).

It's 1939 and you look through the plane hangar and you see all planes that cost points (except the current year ones),  do you want a higher one? or you do not care and just want to fly? Naturaly people would want a higher tier plane, so now you think 'how many points i need and how do i get it'. So you read info and you learn that you can get perks by damaging stuff, kills or attacking targets.
So do you go jabo and attack nearest empty fields to get points? raising alarm and thus upping the enemy planes? or do you head in base defense or in search of targets? You start and decide to attack the nearest field. Meanwhile while you are going to your target you see a low 1942 plane - the 190 A5, he is damaged.... do you drop the bombs and head in for the fat points? he desperately wants to get away so he can keep his last two plane uses. What will you do ? You decide to let him live and head for the target but a 109 E4 jumps on you.... the 109 E4 pilot is not good enough and starts to dogfight with you not knowing that spit I turns better, you gun him down but took some damage and decide to RTB to hold the points.
You land and check how much more for that plane. You calculate that 3 Acks should be enough, so you go fast and low, kill 3 nearest acks and then go home to unlock the higher plane, meanwhile while you started to attack the field more players started attacking it also, thus making a full assault.
Now in your new p40 from 1940 which you can use 5 times because it's still 1939, you go high to clear the skies and hold the air superiority over the field from the 109's e4.

And the player has the effective tools to do it with.  Under your system, they don't.

It's the same

[Wiley]

Yes I have none, because Aces High would be the first one to do this.

WBs did it first.  From all I've ever heard about it, spectacularly unpopular.

Ok, but first you need to set your mind accordingly.

You have to think now that you are playing the rps + perk system AH (and idealy ava also).

It's 1939 and you look through the plane hangar and you see all planes that cost points (except the current year ones),  do you want a higher one? or you do not care and just want to fly? Naturaly people would want a higher tier plane, so now you think 'how many points i need and how do i get it'. So you read info and you learn that you can get perks by damaging stuff, kills or attacking targets.

So do you go jabo and attack nearest empty fields to get points? raising alarm and thus upping the enemy planes? or do you head in base defense or in search of targets? You start and decide to attack the nearest field. Meanwhile while you are going to your target you see a low 1942 plane - the 190 A5, he is damaged.... do you drop the bombs

What bombs?

and head in for the fat points? he desperately wants to get away so he can keep his last two plane uses. What will you do ? You decide to let him live and head for the target but a 109 E4 jumps on you.... the 109 E4 pilot is not good enough and starts to dogfight with you not knowing that spit I turns better, you gun him down but took some damage and decide to RTB to hold the points.
You land and check how much more for that plane. You calculate that 3 Acks should be enough, so you go fast and low, kill 3 nearest acks and then go home to unlock the higher plane, meanwhile while you started to attack the field more players started attacking it also, thus making a full assault.

And run headlong into a squad of 190s at alt.  Carnage ensues.  No points gained, and they move closer to your field to vulch you as you come off of it.

But eventually you figure out to go after a base where there are no enemies, so you get your points by strafing down those nasty ack guns...

Now in your new p40 from 1940 which you can use 5 times because it's still 1939, you go high to clear the skies and hold the air superiority over the field from the 109's e4.

...And run into that same flock of 190s over the field freshly replaned and at alt.

Are you having fun or what?

Wiley.

[nugetx]

WBs did it first.  From all I've ever heard about it, spectacularly unpopular.

But this is RPS v 2.0 hehe, with AH perks.

What bombs?

Oh yea forgot Spit I has no bombs... still strafing lighter targets is always an option, and there was plenty of strafing in WW2.

And run headlong into a squad of 190s at alt.  Carnage ensues.  No points gained, and they move closer to your field to vulch you as you come off of it.

But eventually you figure out to go after a base where there are no enemies, so you get your points by strafing down those nasty ack guns...

...And run into that same flock of 190s over the field freshly replaned and at alt.

Are you having fun or what?

Wiley.

tit for tat

[NatCigg]

like my words of wisdom for troubled employees "remember the day you walked in here looking for a job."  There is a core reason we play this game, and what makes it fun.  If we forget the simple truth that AH is a massive arena that allows for a unparalleled combat experience, we are abandoning the core of the game.  I have been disappointed every time changes were made that went against the "Free World".  Reinventing the game is a possibility, but htc seems to be doing a somewhat proper job of exploring other gameplay possibilities at the side of the main product, a wise move imo.  The other gimmicks to drive or slow a hooked customer are not more than nuances of a good business model, the product is still what dives the sale.