Turning off engine and flop/torque rolls

[cav58d]

I wish there was a way to eliminate these unrealistic and lame "maneuvers".  I am seriously getting tired of dog fighting because it seems like all anyone does these days is stall and then smash stick forward left while applying maximum power.  It's an arcade maneuver.  So it starting and stopping your engine during a dog fight with no delay.

Surely these "maneuvers" can be penalized.  Make the "flop" extremely difficult to recover from.  This isn't an extra 300, it's an old heavy world war II fighter.  And the fix for instant power on and off is obvious and needs to explanation.

[Wiley]

So the post-stall behavior of the planes is off?  Based on what?

Wiley.

[cav58d]

So the post-stall behavior of the planes is off?  Based on what?

Wiley.

Based on everyone isn't Sean Tucker and they're not flying the oracle. 

I'm not saying airplanes don't depart controlled flight when they are purposely and aggressively flown well past the stall, but I would argue they should not recover as easy as they do, especially at low altitude.

This maneuver just cheapens the games and  unfortunately it's becoming more and more common.

I don't know where you would find a statistic for this outside of oral history, but I would bet the overwhelming majority of world war 2 fighter aircraft that departed controlled flight below 1,000 feet AGL resulated in the total loss of aircraft and most likely the pilots life, yet in AH just move the rudder here, move the throttle there and you're recovered.

[Lusche]

Based on everyone isn't Sean Tucker

Just a mild hijack...

Actually many of us are, in the skies of Aces High that is. In real life you often have just one try, if it goes wrong, you're dead.
In AH, we not only have guys with a huge number of (virtual) flight hours (about 14K in my case), but we have encountered a myriad of situations which would have killed RL pilots. We just go back to tower and try again... and again.. and again. We get a routine in flying on the edge about no RL pilot could even dream about.
Many combat tactics in AH are the result of that. Lot's of experience and no real risk in trying.

[Wiley]

I'm not saying airplanes don't depart controlled flight when they are purposely and aggressively flown well past the stall, but I would argue they should not recover as easy as they do, especially at low altitude.

This maneuver just cheapens the games and  unfortunately it's becoming more and more common.

I don't know where you would find a statistic for this outside of oral history, but I would bet the overwhelming majority of world war 2 fighter aircraft that departed controlled flight below 1,000 feet AGL resulated in the total loss of aircraft and most likely the pilots life, yet in AH just move the rudder here, move the throttle there and you're recovered.

Because we get to do it over and over without actually dying, we get to find out where the actual line is exactly.  Like Lusche said.

Again, based on what?  Given the same atmospheric and aircraft conditions between attempts, IRL it should also be rudder here, throttle here, stick there, recover as well.  Physics are very repeatable.

Unfortunately because the game is based on math in a relatively simplified game world giving it the same inputs under the same conditions produces the same results.  I'd like to see way more variables in the air conditions as well to make things like that riskier, but the amount of computing power it would take to do that would be monumental.

I personally prefer that the game reflects what the plane is doing in the air to the best of its ability versus having a "feature" where it would just decide what you've done isn't realistic so your spin is now unrecoverable.  Kind of like maingunning aircraft.  If the round intersects the plane, it hits it.  If the plane gets airflow over its flight surfaces, it recovers from the stall.

An awful lot of people seem to know what the planes shouldn't be able to do, but it seems very few can describe exactly what they should.

Wiley.

[Zimme83]

Simulating how an aircraft behaves near and post-stall is very hard and requires a lot of computer power, not even FSX have done it very accurately.

Recovering from a stall in a straight wing prop fighter might not have to be that hard, it depends on how fast you reacts.

And also: most players have thousands of hours in the game and have encountered enough stalls to know how to recover. The average WW2 pilot had far less experience of stalling and were also under a lot more pressure during combat than we are.

[ACE]

I don't find a problem anywhere in this game with a flight model. Instead of being upset you are being beaten try and learn it yourself

[Wiley]

Simulating how an aircraft behaves near and post-stall is very hard and requires a lot of computer power, not even FSX have done it very accurately.

Recovering from a stall in a straight wing prop fighter might not have to be that hard, it depends on how fast you reacts.

And also: most players have thousands of hours in the game and have encountered enough stalls to know how to recover. The average WW2 pilot had far less experience of stalling and were also under a lot more pressure during combat than we are.

We also don't have to deal with the forces throwing the pilot around the cockpit when these violent maneuvers are happening.

Wiley.

[cav58d]

Physics are very repeatable, but unfortunately as previously addressed, the human factor is not.  The violence, confusion and terror just cannot be emulated, and unfortunately a gamey tactic replaces ACM. 

[Zoney]

Physics are very repeatable, but unfortunately as previously addressed, the human factor is not.  The violence, confusion and terror just cannot be emulated, and unfortunately a gamey tactic replaces ACM.

Then so is taking off 5 seconds after you've been killed.

[popeye]

stall and then smash stick forward left while applying maximum power

So, THAT's how they do it.  Gotta learn that one.   

[nrshida]

Physics are very repeatable, but unfortunately as previously addressed, the human factor is not.  The violence, confusion and terror just cannot be emulated, and unfortunately a gamey tactic replaces ACM. 

Post stall manouevres are firmly part of my ACM and as far as I've researched, realistic.

Are you specifically complaining about the warp-inducing guns-evasion which arrived at the arrival of AH3?

[lunatic1]

I wish there was a way to eliminate these unrealistic and lame "maneuvers".  I am seriously getting tired of dog fighting because it seems like all anyone does these days is stall and then smash stick forward left while applying maximum power.  It's an arcade maneuver.  So it starting and stopping your engine during a dog fight with no delay.

Surely these "maneuvers" can be penalized.  Make the "flop" extremely difficult to recover from.  This isn't an extra 300, it's an old heavy world war II fighter.  And the fix for instant power on and off is obvious and needs to explanation.

^^this is in the same contex as heavy bombers diving on fields/towns/gv's bombers that can fly like a fighter esp if they lose their drones- hvy bombers doing loops without anything falling off, I have never seen in rl WWII footage of divebombing bombers or bombers doing loops or midair stalls. rediculous

[cav58d]

^^this is in the same contex as heavy bombers diving on fields/towns/gv's bombers that can fly like a fighter esp if they lose their drones- hvy bombers doing loops without anything falling off, I have never seen in rl WWII footage of divebombing bombers or bombers doing loops or midair stalls. rediculous

The unfortunate realization of the whole situation is that the MA will further progress toward arcade gameplay, and the best hope for realism is in FSO and scenarios where clear rules are outlined and you hope those participating honor them.

In the mean time purposely departing controlled flight on the deck will remain the arenas favroite primary defensive maneuver, and M3 town resupply will continue to replace actual combat in a base defense situation.

Thank god summer is here, I think I need some time off fron AH 

[Becinhu]

The gamey maneuver that gets me is the yak3, spit 16, Dora floppy fish stall into controlled flight running down a plane with more energy.

Dive on above mentioned plane from 8-10k while they are low energy at less than 2k. Plane does floppy fish stall, you overshoot at over 400, red guy instantly recovers at increased speed and runs down overshooting fighter.

Almost as bad as the old il2 f3 mode porpoise maneuver at low altitude that made the plane warp under the terrain.


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