M3 Effectiveness.....

[waystin2]

You get them out of M-3's by killing the troop bunkers at adjacent fields.  6 bunkers down and they are done running sups for at least 30 minutes.  Not to mention killing sup running M-3's is like eating chicken fries, you can't eat just one...    With that said the amount of uptime given for a supply run INMO needs to be adjusted downward slightly. Maybe 8 mins... 

[JunkyII]

I made a half-dozen M3 runs last night -- to promote combat by restoring field radar and ack.

Let's get this straight because I received a PM about this....

I'M ONLY TALKING ABOUT TOWN RESUPPLY....base resupply is fine.

No

The normal argument against this

That is not true. There is an M3 75mm howitzer version that a lot of people use as an ambush vehicle or quick town attack attack vehicle.

Absolutely not true that "a lot" of people use the howitzer....yea there are some but not enough to take a huge percentage off that 30%....look at the rest of the tank percentage numbers and tell me which one it gets used more then...so the most your talking is 1 or 2 percent of that coming off and still point stands....and that 2 percent is me being generous.

This game is about having fun and pissing off you "elite" players is...well...fun! Keep M3 resupply. Helps maintain a level playing field. 

Before I left on this short haitus I for sure considered myself in the top 10 in fighter jocks 1v1 of the active roster....but that wasn't nearly the case before the real elite sticks left...hell I might of not been in the top 50. Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.

What is the standard resupply mission time, 7 minutes? Minimum 3 runs to up a town?  Troop runs.. No surprise it is the highest % use. 

Reduced M3 effectiveness should be matched with an increase in object hardness, one set of bombers / m4 should not be able to WF a town.  And if you reduce M3 resupply, a reduction in number of troops carried in M3 should be made (or number to take increased).

For me, don't care much about M3s.  Know they are there and they are easily dealt with.  The Wirble is a much more overused determint to fighting.  Too easy, too effective, and the obvious first choice for a fight defense. 

Your statement on the whirbel is wrong...it isn't used half as much....Id rather be fighting a horde of whirbs then a horde of m3s because that forces tanks to come to the fight or to drop a lot of bombs which evens out a fighter fight.

The basic mechanism of town resupply is OK - but needs tweeking.

1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.

This is probably the better idea for an initial revision to see how the gameplay is effected...if not enough CUT IT

Its not that guys in M3s are dodging combat at all! If the field is vulched and you cant get out of the hanger, what are we supposed to do to keep from losing the base? Go NOE on a base take, then you wont have to worry about sup runners. If it doesnt work out fast enough...more than likely you have kicked a hornets nest. Its the only way to fight back. Another Idea, harden all the guns and bunkers. This would negate the need for sups, as defenders would have a descent chance to defend. Wanna know why I believe sups happen more....Yeah, folk should quit rubbing base captures under their nose. Makes it hard to let go of a base. So what? M3s are resupplying and if it works, consider it a chance to extend the fight. It gives reason to up from back bases to clear fighters from your base. I guess maybe, you would have to give up your alt advantage to kill m3's lolI see it as a win win. Earn some vehicle perks and then turn right around and try to make some fighter perks. One caveat though, some of you guys dont get to play in East prime time, and with minuscule numbers of folk playing I can see the issue. KNITS 12,Bish 14    but 4 players are resupping,with 1 or2 others riding it out in the tower Sure it would get old. I just dont have that problem when I play. I cant remember the last time I flew to a Dar Bar, and couldnt kick up a fight.  I guess it could also be, that some countries could just care less about winning maps. Thats great! Every body else is in the same sandbox, so dont be the cat that thinks its a litter box! My guys have to play in that sandbox also and no one likes to play in cat stoole

First, it does the exact opposite of extending a fight....as soon as a town becomes out of sequence attackers and defenders leave for the most part...it didn't used to be like that.

Next, you brought up giving up an alt advantage to kill a M3 evens out the air fight.....wouldnt that be more effective if it was a whirbel or tank heading to town???? You would think...but as it stands the m3 is more effective.

Finally...if the base is getting vulched up a whirb if possible...fly in above from another field...kill troops at the attacking field ect ect ect. All those things are currently harder options the resupply town so town resupply is what everyone does.....those other things create more diverse fights where every aspect of the game comes out.

Some of y'all think I'm trying to kill someone's way to play the game but trust me this makes everyone's day in Aces High better.

You get them out of M-3's by killing the troop bunkers at adjacent fields.  6 bunkers down and they are done running sups for at least 30 minutes.  Not to mention killing sup running M-3's is like eating chicken fries, you can't eat just one...    With that said the amount of uptime given for a supply run INMO needs to be adjusted downward slightly. Maybe 8 mins... 

You can resupply the adjacent field and the target town faster then POTW could drop both....simple as that, it's too good. Killing M3s isn't fun if their isn't a fight back...to me it's like gaining the fat from chicken fries without having the chicken fry.

Plus as soon as you kill troops to the adjacent field....red flag this field is the next target, lose all surprise.

[waystin2]

You can resupply the adjacent field and the target town faster then POTW could drop both....simple as that, it's too good. Killing M3s isn't fun if their isn't a fight back...to me it's like gaining the fat from chicken fries without having the chicken fry.

Plus as soon as you kill troops to the adjacent field....red flag this field is the next target, lose all surprise.

Let me add a qualifier.  We have only been killing the troops at adjacent fields if, a capture attempt is underway nearby.  Seems to make the field fall easier.  Hmmmmm..  PS I am not arguing with ya.  It needs some tweaking, but fellas need to get off their butts and do some bombing and strafing as well to get the rewards. 

[rvflyer]

What the hell is an elite player in a cartoon game? LOL there is not anyone more elite then anyone else. Some people have played for years and just got tired of it. Some have real life things that take precedence over a cartoon game. Some of those p[layers even come back and play the game. I would not use the word elite. Now leave the game alone leave the M3s alone, play and have fun. Too many people want the game changed to suit their way of playing or they will take their ball and go home. 

Let's get this straight because I received a PM about this....

 Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.

Before I left on this short haitus I for sure considered myself in the top 10 in fighter jocks 1v1 of the active roster....but that wasn't nearly the case before the real elite sticks left...hell I might of not been in the top 50. Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.

[JunkyII]

What the hell is an elite player in a cartoon game? LOL there is not anyone more elite then anyone else. Some people have played for years and just got tired of it. Some have real life things that take precedence over a cartoon game. Some of those p[layers even come back and play the game. I would not use the word elite. Now leave the game alone leave the M3s alone, play and have fun. Too many people want the game changed to suit their way of playing or they will take their ball and go home. 

Let's get this straight because I received a PM about this....

 Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.

Before I left on this short haitus I for sure considered myself in the top 10 in fighter jocks 1v1 of the active roster....but that wasn't nearly the case before the real elite sticks left...hell I might of not been in the top 50. Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.

Yep the answer is to just let people keep getting tired of it and leaving....good plan....brilliant. He used the word elite, the better fighter sticks in the game haven't had the game made better better for them in any way other then adding more rides for them or updating the ones they had....all the changes in actual gameplay are for the win the war crowd so your argument actually reveseres on itself because judging by updates they are bias to a certain portion of a community.

Let me add a qualifier.  We have only been killing the troops at adjacent fields if, a capture attempt is underway nearby.  Seems to make the field fall easier.  Hmmmmm..  PS I am not arguing with ya.  It needs some tweaking, but fellas need to get off their butts and do some bombing and strafing as well to get the rewards. 

I've killed troops at an adjacent field just to have them be back up by the time I'm starting to drop the town at the target field....hmmmmm needs a lot of adjustment.

[Slate]

  I blame the capture the field crowd.  They are attracting these M3s like flies.
  I blame the fighter Jocks.  They are attracting the wirbles like Moths to a flame.
  I blame the CV captains.  They are causing bombers to fly and spread their bombs like manure on a pasture.
  And I blame ALL OF YOU for keeping me up late!!   
 

[lunatic1]

-10,000
you say you can't find a fight because people are running M3's to resupp a town, then you ain't looking.
I'm not sure, but it looks like all the people that are posting here to get rid of the M3 resupping are pilots on and don't contribute to saving one of their bases, like they could care less if their bases are lost. so we should just lay down and just let a country  take my base, I don't think so.
the only real way to keep from losing a base is to resupply.




1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.

none of this should be done.

like some else posted you pilots want the game changed to suit you. not all of the players are pilots.
leave the M3's alone and go play your game. go pick or vulch or whatever.

[JunkyII]

-10,000
you say you can't find a fight because people are running M3's to resupp a town, then you ain't looking.
I'm not sure, but it looks like all the people that are posting here to get rid of the M3 resupping are pilots on and don't contribute to saving one of their bases, like they could care less if their bases are lost. so we should just lay down and just let a country  take my base, I don't think so.
the only real way to keep from losing a base is to resupply.




1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.

none of this should be done.

like some else posted you pilots want the game changed to suit you. not all of the players are pilots.
leave the M3's alone and go play your game. go pick or vulch or whatever.

The logic from you guys just makes me think you have zero clue...looking at Bruvs stats...for example shows he is a rounded player who does all aspects of the game at a high level...its not a fighter jock thing it's a hey shooting M3s isn't combat thing in any sense....

I could be in town with a Tiger 2...destroy it all and kill 10 enemy on the way in just to have 1 guy who is outside of sight range in town resupply it without me even knowing....

What I would rather see is people up in fighters bombers tanks and whirbel to defend then to up an M3 to sneak supps in...wheres the fun in that??? Shooting them isn't going to keep people here from steam...you older guys don't understand that and obviously will never understand that so it's whatever...hopefully HTC understands it.

Let me ask this question again...one that I get zero response from....If town resupply was nerfed....would your experience in game go away?

The answer is simply no, there's no reason someone is staying here in game for how town resupply is...only people leaving.

[bustr]

Changes in AH are slow as we all know. On my new terrain I have about 15 feilds that will be maproom on the field only that I'm going to place a river between the field and both GV spawns. This means two serious choke points for GV called bridges, and everyone knowing where incoming GV will have to end up. I don't want to over saturate this terrain with bridges to interfere with GV traffic to capture combat zones. It could be a mega PITA FAIL but, Hitech was kind enough to fix the bugs in them so I can use them. And he mentioned liking the idea of GV combat choke points while saying bridges will be indestructible objects. One TigerII or M8 could tie up a bridge all night long in the worst case scenario while Waystin in his HurriD would be in Pig heaven cleaning the GV's off the bridge. Wirbels stationed at bridges anyone.....

I've thought about Junky's assertions concerning M3 and their over weighted effect on game dynamics. There is fact to this if you sit down and look at it over time. I doubt Hitech is going to radically change things concerning resupply, on the other hand, working bridges between the GV spawn and the town. That kind of a new object to create a choke point for GV's has been historically one of the ways Hitech has quietly responded to things like this. So I will have to rethink some percentage of feilds with towns to run a river past on my terrain to test how well bridges can shift some of the M3 dynamic with this new terrain. I think the test will be if the town attackers bother to keep checking the spawns and the bridges for resupply M3 as a standard part of the capture dynamic. With the new bridges, increasing the visual range to say 1500 for unparked enemy GV from the air might slow down M3's versus dumping new code into the mix. Just means M3 drivers will get clever about killing their engine and waiting for the right moment to get over the bridge with the last 1.5 miles a very dangerous sprint.

I put my GV spawns 3 miles from their target, placing bridges at 1.5 miles would give the attackers time to setup to snipe bridge defenders and town defenders to setup to snipe from the town hills. Now you have an equal opportunity M3 shooting gallery and HurriD targets. Wirbles will have fun at least....

[bozon]

-10,000
you say you can't find a fight because people are running M3's to resupp a town, then you ain't looking.
I'm not sure, but it looks like all the people that are posting here to get rid of the M3 resupping are pilots on and don't contribute to saving one of their bases, like they could care less if their bases are lost. so we should just lay down and just let a country  take my base, I don't think so.
the only real way to keep from losing a base is to resupply.




1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.

none of this should be done.

like some else posted you pilots want the game changed to suit you. not all of the players are pilots.
leave the M3's alone and go play your game. go pick or vulch or whatever.

You are right about one thing - I don't care if the base is lost. That does not mean that I do not defend bases. I LOVE defending bases because this means that there is a superior enemy (flying) force that I can fight!

I resort to attacking enemy bases when I can't find a fight as a way to try and make the other side to come up and fight me. Instead I get a bunch of Wirbs and m3 ressuply... booo.

Having 15 guys tied up for the better part of an hour trying to capture a base is sad. They already cleard the skies, destroyed stuff of the ground, and now vulch the single guy rolling an La7 or yak3 or something repeatedly while the town keeps popping because of invisible m3 resupplies. It would be better for everyone if the base was taken already and these 15 guys start a new more fun fight.

[LilMak]

A lot of the mechanics in place seem to have been added to defend against the mass hordes of yesteryear. I believe the M3 resup is one of them. The hordes these days are much smaller and the chances of a M3 getting to town much higher. I see no harm in tamping its effectiveness down a notch or two. A lot of stuff was added to bolster defense and it seems the pendulum has swung to the point that the tools in place favor defense but not combat defense. Resupply is not combat. It's logistics. Every supply M3, 88, ship gunner, is removing one more player from combat which is not good given the reduced numbers these days.

[bustr]

All the guys tied up on a base capture for hours can be shortened by making the percentage of town down 12-15% from 20%. Then resupply M3 becomes the art of racing versus tooling in under everyone's nose. It also makes it easier to down a town that suddenly pops because everyone was cluster flopping around and not stay focused on taking the base. Throw in the new bridge over a stream and the M3 is a death trap without the attackers or defenders coordinating support to get him over the bridge "choke point".

Numbers will put flyers back in the air but, it is too late to try to force tankers out of their tin cans. The game has changed and we need to adapt to the reality. I'll put the bridges in on my new terrain up to a point to create GV choke points which Hitech would like to see. If it works out, terrains can be retrograde adjusted where possible to add a stream and bridges between the spawn and town.

The white flag percentage reduced would make it feasible once again for a quick grab of bases by 3-4 guys like many prided themselves on years ago and kept people playing the game.

[1stpar3]

The times change. I think you misunderstood my response Junky, wasnt talking about M3s evening out an air fight. It is at times, however. The best defense available.  Your field is under attack....Vh is down...fighters have cap and field deacked(or in process)....Closest base 10 min away(at ground level)...enemy has troops ready and staged)   Now, you can spawn a fast mover M8,18 or m16 or wirb, osti(way too slow to make it in time) OR an M3 with sups? M3 wins,why? Not dodging a fight at all,it gives time for other defenders to show up. Not always, but it gives a better chance of folk showing up IF they have a chance to effectively defend. At least long enough for Vh or FH to pop. I would rather get killed trying to resup a town than vulched on the runway. Sure a death is a death so whats diffrence? I have a chance to make a difference WITH THE M3. I will run them all day long but as soon as VH pops I will be in a wirb to give folk who want to try to roll fighters a chance to get in the air. Had several base take attempts last night that failed (2 rook 1 knit) Why, because M3s held off the horde long enough for fighter cap to run out of ammo and gas before replacement troops could get in. There was one heck of a furball at that Knit base for an hour and a half. I got killed 3 times trying to get a goon in there, said screw it and joined the furball. If not for the Knit m3s it would have been ours. Unfortunately the Rook attempts was just bad planning. Wasnt much of a fight put up but because of poor planning, they held out long enough for fighter support to get there. M3s have their place. In your response I noticed something. "You can resupply the fields faster than POTW can drop them"."It didnt used to be this way".     Get more friends? Change your tactics? I dont know? Personally, I dont have to win to have fun, but its more fun if I feel like I make a difference. I dont have memories of those yesteryear numbers and game play but for the life of me I dont understand why some dont think the game is still fun or as fun as it used to be? Not sure I could have handled it, if it was more fun than it is now. But thats just me and I am old 

[Traveler]

Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name        Sortie %   
M-3                    35.91%
Wirbelwind             18.41%
T-34/85                 6.70%
Panzer IV H            13.33%

Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....

M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.

While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)

What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.

The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.

My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.

Not so, I've gotten kills while in an M3.   Is your whine that because you don't like it, everyone must play your way and only your way?  If I'm attempting to capture a field and I see the town being resupplied, I kill the M3.  End of Problem, more targets for me to drop on.

[JunkyII]

Not so, I've gotten kills while in an M3.   Is your whine that because you don't like it, everyone must play your way and only your way?  If I'm attempting to capture a field and I see the town being resupplied, I kill the M3.  End of Problem, more targets for me to drop on.

If we were playing my way everyone would be going straight into each other and we would all know where everyone is constantly...the strategy would be taken out and only skill would remain...but I know that would make Aces high die so I'm not asking for that.

Stop trying to make it sound like I'm whining you big dummies, I dislike any part of the game which I believe removes ANY form of combat from the game...which it's a fact this does. You may ave got kills in an M3 against some baby seal or a lucky auger...not by skill on your part...its failure on theirs.

The times change. I think you misunderstood my response Junky, wasnt talking about M3s evening out an air fight. It is at times, however. The best defense available.  Your field is under attack....Vh is down...fighters have cap and field deacked(or in process)....Closest base 10 min away(at ground level)...enemy has troops ready and staged)   Now, you can spawn a fast mover M8,18 or m16 or wirb, osti(way too slow to make it in time) OR an M3 with sups? M3 wins,why? Not dodging a fight at all,it gives time for other defenders to show up. Not always, but it gives a better chance of folk showing up IF they have a chance to effectively defend. At least long enough for Vh or FH to pop. I would rather get killed trying to resup a town than vulched on the runway. Sure a death is a death so whats diffrence? I have a chance to make a difference WITH THE M3. I will run them all day long but as soon as VH pops I will be in a wirb to give folk who want to try to roll fighters a chance to get in the air. Had several base take attempts last night that failed (2 rook 1 knit) Why, because M3s held off the horde long enough for fighter cap to run out of ammo and gas before replacement troops could get in. There was one heck of a furball at that Knit base for an hour and a half. I got killed 3 times trying to get a goon in there, said screw it and joined the furball. If not for the Knit m3s it would have been ours. Unfortunately the Rook attempts was just bad planning. Wasnt much of a fight put up but because of poor planning, they held out long enough for fighter support to get there. M3s have their place. In your response I noticed something. "You can resupply the fields faster than POTW can drop them"."It didnt used to be this way".     Get more friends? Change your tactics? I dont know? Personally, I dont have to win to have fun, but its more fun if I feel like I make a difference. I dont have memories of those yesteryear numbers and game play but for the life of me I dont understand why some dont think the game is still fun or as fun as it used to be? Not sure I could have handled it, if it was more fun than it is now. But thats just me and I am old 

Your right currently it does give defenders a time to get there...BUT thats because they aren't upping to defend in the first place...Seen hundreds of times, first person at a base getting attacked is an M3 running supps to town...that shouldn't be the case. There should be an ant trail of whirbs and tanks heading to town and fighters trying to fight off other planes before any M3s are even thought of for the town. Did they throw Supply trucks in the way of the Nazis at the battle of the bulge? No they stuck the 101st and tanks in their way to stop them.

Combat Combat Combat...not supply supply supply