Post by: JunkyII on August 25, 2017, 07:35:50 PM
Name Sortie %
M-3 35.91%
Wirbelwind 18.41%
T-34/85 6.70%
Panzer IV H 13.33%
Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....
M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.
The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.
My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.
Post by: Bruv119 on August 25, 2017, 07:40:17 PM
Post by: Copprhed on August 25, 2017, 09:13:42 PM
Post by: Devil 505 on August 25, 2017, 10:17:20 PM
M3's are killing the game.
Post by: cav58d on August 25, 2017, 11:38:28 PM
Post by: Vulcan on August 26, 2017, 12:49:14 AM
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
That is not true. There is an M3 75mm howitzer version that a lot of people use as an ambush vehicle or quick town attack attack vehicle.
Post by: FESS67 on August 26, 2017, 12:51:59 AM
Not more fun IMO but more effective. It is one of the aspects of the game I would review as terrible if I was to write a review.
Post by: Lazerr on August 26, 2017, 02:11:18 AM
Post by: wrench on August 26, 2017, 02:49:19 AM
Post by: 1stpar3 on August 26, 2017, 03:27:34 AM
Post by: SirNuke on August 26, 2017, 03:31:57 AM
Post by: bozon on August 26, 2017, 06:21:23 AM
1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.
Post by: gflyer on August 26, 2017, 06:40:33 AM
Reduced M3 effectiveness should be matched with an increase in object hardness, one set of bombers / m4 should not be able to WF a town. And if you reduce M3 resupply, a reduction in number of troops carried in M3 should be made (or number to take increased).
For me, don't care much about M3s. Know they are there and they are easily dealt with. The Wirble is a much more overused determint to fighting. Too easy, too effective, and the obvious first choice for a fight defense.
Post by: popeye on August 26, 2017, 08:22:02 AM
Post by: flippz on August 26, 2017, 08:57:37 AM
Post by: waystin2 on August 26, 2017, 09:06:17 AM
Post by: JunkyII on August 26, 2017, 09:21:50 AM
I made a half-dozen M3 runs last night -- to promote combat by restoring field radar and ack.Let's get this straight because I received a PM about this....
I'M ONLY TALKING ABOUT TOWN RESUPPLY....base resupply is fine.
NoThe normal argument against this
That is not true. There is an M3 75mm howitzer version that a lot of people use as an ambush vehicle or quick town attack attack vehicle.Absolutely not true that "a lot" of people use the howitzer....yea there are some but not enough to take a huge percentage off that 30%....look at the rest of the tank percentage numbers and tell me which one it gets used more then...so the most your talking is 1 or 2 percent of that coming off and still point stands....and that 2 percent is me being generous.
This game is about having fun and pissing off you "elite" players is...well...fun! Keep M3 resupply. Helps maintain a level playing field. :ahandBefore I left on this short haitus I for sure considered myself in the top 10 in fighter jocks 1v1 of the active roster....but that wasn't nearly the case before the real elite sticks left...hell I might of not been in the top 50. Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.
What is the standard resupply mission time, 7 minutes? Minimum 3 runs to up a town? Troop runs.. No surprise it is the highest % use.
Reduced M3 effectiveness should be matched with an increase in object hardness, one set of bombers / m4 should not be able to WF a town. And if you reduce M3 resupply, a reduction in number of troops carried in M3 should be made (or number to take increased).
For me, don't care much about M3s. Know they are there and they are easily dealt with. The Wirble is a much more overused determint to fighting. Too easy, too effective, and the obvious first choice for a fight defense.
Your statement on the whirbel is wrong...it isn't used half as much....Id rather be fighting a horde of whirbs then a horde of m3s because that forces tanks to come to the fight or to drop a lot of bombs which evens out a fighter fight.
The basic mechanism of town resupply is OK - but needs tweeking.This is probably the better idea for an initial revision to see how the gameplay is effected...if not enough CUT IT
1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.
Its not that guys in M3s are dodging combat at all! If the field is vulched and you cant get out of the hanger, what are we supposed to do to keep from losing the base? Go NOE on a base take, then you wont have to worry about sup runners. If it doesnt work out fast enough...more than likely you have kicked a hornets nest. Its the only way to fight back. Another Idea, harden all the guns and bunkers. This would negate the need for sups, as defenders would have a descent chance to defend. Wanna know why I believe sups happen more....Yeah, folk should quit rubbing base captures under their nose. Makes it hard to let go of a base. So what? M3s are resupplying and if it works, consider it a chance to extend the fight. It gives reason to up from back bases to clear fighters from your base. I guess maybe, you would have to give up your alt advantage to kill m3's lolI see it as a win win. Earn some vehicle perks and then turn right around and try to make some fighter perks. One caveat though, some of you guys dont get to play in East prime time, and with minuscule numbers of folk playing I can see the issue. KNITS 12,Bish 14 but 4 players are resupping,with 1 or2 others riding it out in the tower Sure it would get old. I just dont have that problem when I play. I cant remember the last time I flew to a Dar Bar, and couldnt kick up a fight. I guess it could also be, that some countries could just care less about winning maps. Thats great! Every body else is in the same sandbox, so dont be the cat that thinks its a litter box! My guys have to play in that sandbox also and no one likes to play in cat stoole :aokFirst, it does the exact opposite of extending a fight....as soon as a town becomes out of sequence attackers and defenders leave for the most part...it didn't used to be like that.
Next, you brought up giving up an alt advantage to kill a M3 evens out the air fight.....wouldnt that be more effective if it was a whirbel or tank heading to town???? You would think...but as it stands the m3 is more effective.
Finally...if the base is getting vulched up a whirb if possible...fly in above from another field...kill troops at the attacking field ect ect ect. All those things are currently harder options the resupply town so town resupply is what everyone does.....those other things create more diverse fights where every aspect of the game comes out.
Some of y'all think I'm trying to kill someone's way to play the game but trust me this makes everyone's day in Aces High better.
You get them out of M-3's by killing the troop bunkers at adjacent fields. 6 bunkers down and they are done running sups for at least 30 minutes. Not to mention killing sup running M-3's is like eating chicken fries, you can't eat just one... :devil With that said the amount of uptime given for a supply run INMO needs to be adjusted downward slightly. Maybe 8 mins... :headscratch:You can resupply the adjacent field and the target town faster then POTW could drop both....simple as that, it's too good. Killing M3s isn't fun if their isn't a fight back...to me it's like gaining the fat from chicken fries without having the chicken fry.
Plus as soon as you kill troops to the adjacent field....red flag this field is the next target, lose all surprise.
Post by: waystin2 on August 26, 2017, 09:43:18 AM
Let me add a qualifier. We have only been killing the troops at adjacent fields if, a capture attempt is underway nearby. Seems to make the field fall easier. Hmmmmm.. PS I am not arguing with ya. It needs some tweaking, but fellas need to get off their butts and do some bombing and strafing as well to get the rewards.
You can resupply the adjacent field and the target town faster then POTW could drop both....simple as that, it's too good. Killing M3s isn't fun if their isn't a fight back...to me it's like gaining the fat from chicken fries without having the chicken fry.
Plus as soon as you kill troops to the adjacent field....red flag this field is the next target, lose all surprise.
Post by: rvflyer on August 26, 2017, 10:15:20 AM
Let's get this straight because I received a PM about this....
Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.
Before I left on this short haitus I for sure considered myself in the top 10 in fighter jocks 1v1 of the active roster....but that wasn't nearly the case before the real elite sticks left...hell I might of not been in the top 50. Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.
Post by: JunkyII on August 26, 2017, 10:28:15 AM
What the hell is an elite player in a cartoon game? LOL there is not anyone more elite then anyone else. Some people have played for years and just got tired of it. Some have real life things that take precedence over a cartoon game. Some of those p[layers even come back and play the game. I would not use the word elite. Now leave the game alone leave the M3s alone, play and have fun. Too many people want the game changed to suit their way of playing or they will take their ball and go home. :ahandLet's get this straight because I received a PM about this....Yep the answer is to just let people keep getting tired of it and leaving....good plan....brilliant. He used the word elite, the better fighter sticks in the game haven't had the game made better better for them in any way other then adding more rides for them or updating the ones they had....all the changes in actual gameplay are for the win the war crowd so your argument actually reveseres on itself because judging by updates they are bias to a certain portion of a community.
Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.
Before I left on this short haitus I for sure considered myself in the top 10 in fighter jocks 1v1 of the active roster....but that wasn't nearly the case before the real elite sticks left...hell I might of not been in the top 50. Way to go you succeeded at pissing off and forcing the elite sticks out.....you are a hero.Let me add a qualifier. We have only been killing the troops at adjacent fields if, a capture attempt is underway nearby. Seems to make the field fall easier. Hmmmmm.. PS I am not arguing with ya. It needs some tweaking, but fellas need to get off their butts and do some bombing and strafing as well to get the rewards.I've killed troops at an adjacent field just to have them be back up by the time I'm starting to drop the town at the target field....hmmmmm needs a lot of adjustment.
Post by: Slate on August 26, 2017, 11:00:34 AM
I blame the fighter Jocks. :old: They are attracting the wirbles like Moths to a flame.
I blame the CV captains. :old: They are causing bombers to fly and spread their bombs like manure on a pasture.
And I blame ALL OF YOU for keeping me up late!! :joystick:
Post by: lunatic1 on August 26, 2017, 11:26:28 AM
you say you can't find a fight because people are running M3's to resupp a town, then you ain't looking.
I'm not sure, but it looks like all the people that are posting here to get rid of the M3 resupping are pilots on and don't contribute to saving one of their bases, like they could care less if their bases are lost. so we should just lay down and just let a country take my base, I don't think so.
the only real way to keep from losing a base is to resupply.
1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.
none of this should be done.
like some else posted you pilots want the game changed to suit you. not all of the players are pilots.
leave the M3's alone and go play your game. go pick or vulch or whatever.
Post by: JunkyII on August 26, 2017, 12:06:52 PM
-10,000The logic from you guys just makes me think you have zero clue...looking at Bruvs stats...for example shows he is a rounded player who does all aspects of the game at a high level...its not a fighter jock thing it's a hey shooting M3s isn't combat thing in any sense....
you say you can't find a fight because people are running M3's to resupp a town, then you ain't looking.
I'm not sure, but it looks like all the people that are posting here to get rid of the M3 resupping are pilots on and don't contribute to saving one of their bases, like they could care less if their bases are lost. so we should just lay down and just let a country take my base, I don't think so.
the only real way to keep from losing a base is to resupply.
1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.
none of this should be done.
like some else posted you pilots want the game changed to suit you. not all of the players are pilots.
leave the M3's alone and go play your game. go pick or vulch or whatever.
I could be in town with a Tiger 2...destroy it all and kill 10 enemy on the way in just to have 1 guy who is outside of sight range in town resupply it without me even knowing....
What I would rather see is people up in fighters bombers tanks and whirbel to defend then to up an M3 to sneak supps in...wheres the fun in that??? Shooting them isn't going to keep people here from steam...you older guys don't understand that and obviously will never understand that so it's whatever...hopefully HTC understands it.
Let me ask this question again...one that I get zero response from....If town resupply was nerfed....would your experience in game go away?
The answer is simply no, there's no reason someone is staying here in game for how town resupply is...only people leaving.
Post by: bustr on August 26, 2017, 01:14:04 PM
I've thought about Junky's assertions concerning M3 and their over weighted effect on game dynamics. There is fact to this if you sit down and look at it over time. I doubt Hitech is going to radically change things concerning resupply, on the other hand, working bridges between the GV spawn and the town. That kind of a new object to create a choke point for GV's has been historically one of the ways Hitech has quietly responded to things like this. So I will have to rethink some percentage of feilds with towns to run a river past on my terrain to test how well bridges can shift some of the M3 dynamic with this new terrain. I think the test will be if the town attackers bother to keep checking the spawns and the bridges for resupply M3 as a standard part of the capture dynamic. With the new bridges, increasing the visual range to say 1500 for unparked enemy GV from the air might slow down M3's versus dumping new code into the mix. Just means M3 drivers will get clever about killing their engine and waiting for the right moment to get over the bridge with the last 1.5 miles a very dangerous sprint.
I put my GV spawns 3 miles from their target, placing bridges at 1.5 miles would give the attackers time to setup to snipe bridge defenders and town defenders to setup to snipe from the town hills. Now you have an equal opportunity M3 shooting gallery and HurriD targets. Wirbles will have fun at least....
Post by: bozon on August 26, 2017, 01:39:34 PM
-10,000You are right about one thing - I don't care if the base is lost. That does not mean that I do not defend bases. I LOVE defending bases because this means that there is a superior enemy (flying) force that I can fight!
you say you can't find a fight because people are running M3's to resupp a town, then you ain't looking.
I'm not sure, but it looks like all the people that are posting here to get rid of the M3 resupping are pilots on and don't contribute to saving one of their bases, like they could care less if their bases are lost. so we should just lay down and just let a country take my base, I don't think so.
the only real way to keep from losing a base is to resupply.
1. The amount of damage fixed is too much.
2. The down-time reduction should apply first to the structures with longest time left - the effect will be to tend to equalize the time-left, so we will not play whack-a-mole with random buildings popping one after another.
3. The supply drop zone needs to be a short radius circle around the flag.
none of this should be done.
like some else posted you pilots want the game changed to suit you. not all of the players are pilots.
leave the M3's alone and go play your game. go pick or vulch or whatever.
I resort to attacking enemy bases when I can't find a fight as a way to try and make the other side to come up and fight me. Instead I get a bunch of Wirbs and m3 ressuply... booo.
Having 15 guys tied up for the better part of an hour trying to capture a base is sad. They already cleard the skies, destroyed stuff of the ground, and now vulch the single guy rolling an La7 or yak3 or something repeatedly while the town keeps popping because of invisible m3 resupplies. It would be better for everyone if the base was taken already and these 15 guys start a new more fun fight.
Post by: LilMak on August 26, 2017, 02:16:17 PM
Post by: bustr on August 26, 2017, 03:36:09 PM
Numbers will put flyers back in the air but, it is too late to try to force tankers out of their tin cans. The game has changed and we need to adapt to the reality. I'll put the bridges in on my new terrain up to a point to create GV choke points which Hitech would like to see. If it works out, terrains can be retrograde adjusted where possible to add a stream and bridges between the spawn and town.
The white flag percentage reduced would make it feasible once again for a quick grab of bases by 3-4 guys like many prided themselves on years ago and kept people playing the game.
Post by: 1stpar3 on August 26, 2017, 03:44:52 PM
Post by: Traveler on August 26, 2017, 05:49:43 PM
Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name Sortie %
M-3 35.91%
Wirbelwind 18.41%
T-34/85 6.70%
Panzer IV H 13.33%
Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....
M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.
The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.
My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.
Not so, I've gotten kills while in an M3. Is your whine that because you don't like it, everyone must play your way and only your way? If I'm attempting to capture a field and I see the town being resupplied, I kill the M3. End of Problem, more targets for me to drop on.
Post by: JunkyII on August 26, 2017, 11:01:29 PM
Not so, I've gotten kills while in an M3. Is your whine that because you don't like it, everyone must play your way and only your way? If I'm attempting to capture a field and I see the town being resupplied, I kill the M3. End of Problem, more targets for me to drop on.If we were playing my way everyone would be going straight into each other and we would all know where everyone is constantly...the strategy would be taken out and only skill would remain...but I know that would make Aces high die so I'm not asking for that.
Stop trying to make it sound like I'm whining you big dummies, I dislike any part of the game which I believe removes ANY form of combat from the game...which it's a fact this does. You may ave got kills in an M3 against some baby seal or a lucky auger...not by skill on your part...its failure on theirs.
The times change. I think you misunderstood my response Junky, wasnt talking about M3s evening out an air fight. It is at times, however. The best defense available. Your field is under attack....Vh is down...fighters have cap and field deacked(or in process)....Closest base 10 min away(at ground level)...enemy has troops ready and staged) Now, you can spawn a fast mover M8,18 or m16 or wirb, osti(way too slow to make it in time) OR an M3 with sups? M3 wins,why? Not dodging a fight at all,it gives time for other defenders to show up. Not always, but it gives a better chance of folk showing up IF they have a chance to effectively defend. At least long enough for Vh or FH to pop. I would rather get killed trying to resup a town than vulched on the runway. Sure a death is a death so whats diffrence? I have a chance to make a difference WITH THE M3. I will run them all day long but as soon as VH pops I will be in a wirb to give folk who want to try to roll fighters a chance to get in the air. Had several base take attempts last night that failed (2 rook 1 knit) Why, because M3s held off the horde long enough for fighter cap to run out of ammo and gas before replacement troops could get in. There was one heck of a furball at that Knit base for an hour and a half. I got killed 3 times trying to get a goon in there, said screw it and joined the furball. If not for the Knit m3s it would have been ours. Unfortunately the Rook attempts was just bad planning. Wasnt much of a fight put up but because of poor planning, they held out long enough for fighter support to get there. M3s have their place. In your response I noticed something. "You can resupply the fields faster than POTW can drop them"."It didnt used to be this way". Get more friends? Change your tactics? I dont know? Personally, I dont have to win to have fun, but its more fun if I feel like I make a difference. I dont have memories of those yesteryear numbers and game play but for the life of me I dont understand why some dont think the game is still fun or as fun as it used to be? Not sure I could have handled it, if it was more fun than it is now. But thats just me and I am old :old:Your right currently it does give defenders a time to get there...BUT thats because they aren't upping to defend in the first place...Seen hundreds of times, first person at a base getting attacked is an M3 running supps to town...that shouldn't be the case. There should be an ant trail of whirbs and tanks heading to town and fighters trying to fight off other planes before any M3s are even thought of for the town. Did they throw Supply trucks in the way of the Nazis at the battle of the bulge? No they stuck the 101st and tanks in their way to stop them.
Combat Combat Combat...not supply supply supply
Post by: Traveler on August 27, 2017, 08:21:52 AM
Stop trying to make it sound like I'm whining you big dummies,
I think that say's it all.
Post by: JunkyII on August 27, 2017, 10:06:52 AM
I think that say's it all.What are you mad I called you a dummy because you and other keep posting stupid posts about a legitimate gameplay problem trying to coin it off on me whining because changing it would force you to actually fight without an advantage???
Post by: JunkyII on August 27, 2017, 10:07:42 AM
Post by: Traveler on August 27, 2017, 10:24:31 AM
What are you mad I called you a dummy because you and other keep posting stupid posts about a legitimate gameplay problem trying to coin it off on me whining because changing it would force you to actually fight without an advantage???I'm not mad JunkyII, but your endless whine about the M3 and how it will destroy the game get's really old. It's not going to change, people will resupply they always have and always will. Your attempt to change the game so everyone has to play your way is well, childish. Enjoy the game. Good luck. I"m done.
Post by: caldera on August 27, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
Base resupply helps players get back into combat. Town resupply helps players avoid combat.
Post by: BuckShot on August 27, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
1. Remove all object resupply from ah3. This is Aces High 3, not convoys low 3
Or
2. Remove all perk and score benifits from resupply runs. The OLNY benifit would be the repaired object.
Or
3. All object resupply cargo requires a perk cost to haul/ deploy.
Post by: ghi on August 27, 2017, 11:31:11 AM
After last updates, the GVs are almost invisible, i can fly 3-4 times at 300 ft above iconless M3 parked in town in F3 mode/ A20, and i realize was an m3 there when red troops start running.
But unfortunately this is the what the game rewarding; why take off and fight when you can get points for driving m3 or park the invisible dweeb with .45 shot the troops, another stupid slap in face of base takers .
As i said before, After 18 years AH is still rewarding the lowest qualities in human behavior and personality; The best fighter never takes off from clubbed fields, best GVer usually sits at spawn crying for sups and best bombers never takes risk bombing CVs, but some worthless targets from 30k, @ 4 AM.
Watch AH front page; this are AH heroes on front page and the newby crowd follows.
Imo, should reward teams, not individuals .
The team vs team fight was eliminated slowly with every patch( and with it 100s of team-vs team fight oriented players), making bases more and more difficult to capture, huge tows, 100s of flacks, more Vh,FHs,,( LOOK at the evolution size of V bases, Airfield base, Ports from AH1 to AH2->AH3 and you'll understand why was better game and better populated even with lower quality graphics ) Vbases un-capturable, Massive towns around large fields, you need all the average main arena population to white flag} and what;s left is this nonsense vulch for kills and points.
I'm not surprised the MA is almost empty, with 15-20 player/team most of the day.
Post by: wil3ur on August 27, 2017, 11:43:39 AM
OR
Make supplies not instantaneous. Add a timer on those for objects being resupplied, and just like torpedos, make them disappear if the person reups before the resup timer has gone off. I mean is it really realistic a single M3 can stop on the edge of town and simultaneously knock on 150 doors and give them all a bar of soap, or would the people have to come to a depot to get their soap?
Post by: Traveler on August 27, 2017, 11:49:11 AM
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 27, 2017, 12:14:32 PM
You are 100% right , i've been complaining about this lazy ninja m3s resupplying option long before , it's nonsense .....but they made it even more effective after last patches.
After last updates, the GVs are almost invisible, i can fly 3-4 times at 300 ft above iconless M3 parked in town in F3 mode/ A20, and i realize was an m3 there when red troops start running.
But unfortunately this is the what the game rewarding; why take off and fight when you can get points for driving m3 or park the invisible dweeb with .45 shot the troops, another stupid slap in face of base takers .
As i said before, After 18 years AH is still rewarding the lowest qualities in human behavior and personality; The best fighter never takes off from clubbed fields, best GVer usually sits at spawn crying for sups and best bombers never takes risk bombing CVs, but some worthless targets from 30k, @ 4 AM.
Watch AH front page; this are AH heroes on front page and the newby crowd follows.
Imo, should reward teams, not individuals .
The team vs team fight was eliminated slowly with every patch( and with it 100s of team-vs team fight oriented players), making bases more and more difficult to capture, huge tows, 100s of flacks, more Vh,FHs,,( LOOK at the evolution size of V bases, Airfield base, Ports from AH1 to AH2->AH3 and you'll understand why was better game and better populated even with lower quality graphics ) Vbases un-capturable, Massive towns around large fields, you need all the average main arena population to white flag} and what;s left is this nonsense vulch for kills and points.
I'm not surprised the MA is almost empty, with 15-20 player/team most of the day.
Yup I have to agree with what you are saying. It's so true.
besides the scoring part, which I think should reward both squads and individuals too. As someone who does like to complete for #1 fighter on occasion, the lamest game play type people typically aren't at the very top, in most cases. It's the lazy game play that has made the game slower and I agree with your main premise of why the MA died down.
Post by: Traveler on August 27, 2017, 12:44:26 PM
You get them out of M-3's by killing the troop bunkers at adjacent fields. 6 bunkers down and they are done running sups for at least 30 minutes. Not to mention killing sup running M-3's is like eating chicken fries, you can't eat just one... :devil With that said the amount of uptime given for a supply run INMO needs to be adjusted downward slightly. Maybe 8 mins... :headscratch:
Question, Down time, is that real world time 1 minute = 60 seconds or arena time, 1 minute =20 seconds?
Post by: Zener on August 27, 2017, 01:31:26 PM
The issues with GV invisibility effect both sides equally. A resupp M3 is no more or less invisible than a M3 carrying troops. I don't see how that would give any advantage or disadvantage to one side but not the other. It seems to me that when a group swoops in over a base/town trying to take it, instead of having 8 planes orbiting the AF waiting for uppers, perhaps a smarter tactic would be to leave 4 there, put one over/orbiting town, and three criss-crossing the path a resupp M3 is going to take to get from spawn to town.
What's going to be the next reason base takes are "too hard?" Ack? Too many buildings? Map room at the opposite end of town from the spawn? Ridiculous! Just play and account for the possible defense by resupp.
Post by: JunkyII on August 27, 2017, 02:45:05 PM
I don't have an opinion on M3/resupp one way or the other. The game play is what it is, and like every other aspect of the game, a player learns to do what brings the best chance of success. A lot of this discussion seems to presume that a given individual player thinks (and acts) as an entire country. They don't. I have seen many, many times when help is called for to defend a base and no help comes or even worse, the request is ridiculed and no help is coming. So what is that player to do? Try to up a plane into 6 or 8 swooping cons? Go take off from a base 1.5 sectors away and hope they can avoid a gaggle of cons and get over town before troops run? Or maybe they'll think running town supps might give the best chance of success, given that they appear to be alone or nearly alone trying to defend.I hear what your saying...but that is the EXACT problem...M3 shouldnt be the most effective form of defense for a base. The reason we don't have people lifting off in LAs at the sight of a base flashing anymore is because people know they don't have to immediately now...they can wait to resupply it.
The issues with GV invisibility effect both sides equally. A resupp M3 is no more or less invisible than a M3 carrying troops. I don't see how that would give any advantage or disadvantage to one side but not the other. It seems to me that when a group swoops in over a base/town trying to take it, instead of having 8 planes orbiting the AF waiting for uppers, perhaps a smarter tactic would be to leave 4 there, put one over/orbiting town, and three criss-crossing the path a resupp M3 is going to take to get from spawn to town.
What's going to be the next reason base takes are "too hard?" Ack? Too many buildings? Map room at the opposite end of town from the spawn? Ridiculous! Just play and account for the possible defense by resupp.
very easy solution, go to the Airfield or Vbase that the M3's are spawing in from and kill the troops.Same dumb argument that has been answered 50 times...you can resupply that base and the target base town faster then it takes for you to drop the troops and that town.
I'm not mad JunkyII, but your endless whine about the M3 and how it will destroy the game get's really old. It's not going to change, people will resupply they always have and always will. Your attempt to change the game so everyone has to play your way is well, childish. Enjoy the game. Good luck. I"m done.How long have you been here??? You used to not have town resupply at all in game and guess what...NOE hordes were met with whirbs and a swarm of LAs and fights occurred...now missions arent even upped against because its easier to resupply the town to hold the base....How can you not see the issue there???
Anyone can answer that....how is there not a problem when M3 resupplying town is the MOST effective form of defense for a base?....in a combat game....come on, I know I'm not smarter then you all but the answers against this not being a problem are just stupid.
Post by: Zener on August 27, 2017, 03:23:22 PM
Quote
...but that is the EXACT problem...M3 shouldnt be the most effective form of defense for a base. The reason we don't have people lifting off in LAs at the sight of a base flashing anymore is because people know they don't have to immediately now...they can wait to resupply it.
Well I disagree it's the "most effective" form of base defense, but it IS a good defense if you're alone or nearly so and trying to defend against a swarm. You seem to think swarm ought to equal automatic base take, so I'll turn the question back on you and ask WHY that should be? We can't resupp from a base itself, and in real life that would be where it would get resupped from UNLESS that base was under heavy attack, then it would come from surrounding bases.
Quote
You used to not have town resupply at all in game and guess what...NOE hordes were met with whirbs and a swarm of LAs and fights occurred...now missions arent even upped against because its easier to resupply the town to hold the base....How can you not see the issue there???
Perhaps the answer to your question is why we don't see NOE swarm missions anymore. When the attacks change, the response is going to change and it will be by any means available to anyone playing who chooses that method. That's how everything else in the game works, from ammo loadout to bomb loadout to which plane/GV to fly or drive and from where.
Post by: Traveler on August 27, 2017, 03:28:53 PM
Same dumb argument that has been answered 50 times...you can resupply that base and the target base town faster then it takes for you to drop the troops and that town.
How long have you been here??? You used to not have town resupply at all in game and guess what...NOE hordes were met with whirbs and a swarm of LAs and fights occurred...now missions arent even upped against because its easier to resupply the town to hold the base....How can you not see the issue there???
All you have to do is include the supporting bases in your attack plan. They can't resupply A1 if in your planning you strike at the supporting base and kill troops. Then flatten A1 and your done, another base capture. I've been here 18 years. How is it that you don't see how resupply is a part of all wars. Any strategy to capture a base needs to account for it. How is it that you don't see that to counter the resupply both sides are forced to engage in combat at the supporting base.
Post by: Traveler on August 27, 2017, 03:31:03 PM
there are fewer swarm NOE missions because we don't have the numbers to put together a swarm.
Perhaps the answer to your question is why we don't see NOE swarm missions anymore. When the attacks change, the response is going to change and it will be by any means available to anyone playing who chooses that method. That's how everything else in the game works, from ammo loadout to bomb loadout to which plane/GV to fly or drive and from where.
Post by: Lazerr on August 27, 2017, 03:39:26 PM
If you have been here 18 years, you obviously remember the days and type of fights before resupply was implemented. This type of gameplay is just another obstical to get a good brawl going for a base. Thats what will get the majority of new guys hooked. Not shooting some turd in an almost invisable gv.
Post by: ACE on August 27, 2017, 05:02:09 PM
Post by: Zener on August 27, 2017, 05:17:22 PM
I don't believe doing away with M3 resupp will make the game go back to inter-base furballs, much as some might hope it does. The numbers are too low, squad sizes are smaller, and it's just really tough to get a good sized chunk of people working on a common goal. Add in that some people are on long bombing runs and aren't bailing to try and save a base and you get the fights you have.
PLUS, there are those who will try to take a base and if it doesn't go nearly unopposed, they're gone to some other part of the map to try it elsewhere. They want a base with little or NO fight. You see it all the time, the T34s running to base to hide in the hangar and vulch planes taking off while their own side fighter pilots are whining there's no air fights anymore; M4s w/rockets and a M3 trying to take a base. They aren't looking for fights, they want a base with as little conflict as possible. I'm not defending or condemning that, just saying it's what I see happen all the time. I've NEVER seen anyone try to dissuade camping anything to prevent "good fights." I wonder why we never see that?
Post by: scott66 on August 27, 2017, 05:54:13 PM
Post by: Crash Orange on August 27, 2017, 10:59:12 PM
Post by: rvflyer on August 28, 2017, 12:39:43 AM
You are 100% right , i've been complaining about this lazy ninja m3s resupplying option long before , it's nonsense .....but they made it even more effective after last patches.
After last updates, the GVs are almost invisible, i can fly 3-4 times at 300 ft above iconless M3 parked in town in F3 mode/ A20, and i realize was an m3 there when red troops start running.
But unfortunately this is the what the game rewarding; why take off and fight when you can get points for driving m3 or park the invisible dweeb with .45 shot the troops, another stupid slap in face of base takers .
As i said before, After 18 years AH is still rewarding the lowest qualities in human behavior and personality; The best fighter never takes off from clubbed fields, best GVer usually sits at spawn crying for sups and best bombers never takes risk bombing CVs, but some worthless targets from 30k, @ 4 AM.
Watch AH front page; this are AH heroes on front page and the newby crowd follows.
Imo, should reward teams, not individuals .
The team vs team fight was eliminated slowly with every patch( and with it 100s of team-vs team fight oriented players), making bases more and more difficult to capture, huge tows, 100s of flacks, more Vh,FHs,,( LOOK at the evolution size of V bases, Airfield base, Ports from AH1 to AH2->AH3 and you'll understand why was better game and better populated even with lower quality graphics ) Vbases un-capturable, Massive towns around large fields, you need all the average main arena population to white flag} and what;s left is this nonsense vulch for kills and points.
I'm not surprised the MA is almost empty, with 15-20 player/team most of the day.
Post by: JunkyII on September 06, 2017, 10:18:52 PM
All you have to do is include the supporting bases in your attack plan. They can't resupply A1 if in your planning you strike at the supporting base and kill troops. Then flatten A1 and your done, another base captureThis first part shows you are full of crap and haven't read any arguments yet....but for the 100th time I'll state that it is faster to resupply the supporting base and field then it is to take down the troops and town by far faster. I've been here 18 years.Good for you, Ive been here 10 and guess what, M3 resupply for towns has only been here about 4 so why are you bringing up the number of years you played when only the last 4 matter? How is it that you don't see how resupply is a part of all wars.As someone who has actually been in a real war, I'll say this until M3s don't have spawns to other fields you can't bring up real world Sustainment...which is what it is now called...not resupply...especially because that argument immediately goes against ALL COMBAT TACTICS in the world Any strategy to capture a base needs to account for it. How is it that you don't see that to counter the resupply both sides are forced to engage in combat at the supporting base.If that was really the case then it isn't working because the only effect I see from M3 resupply to towns is a lack of combat all together.
Post by: bustr on September 07, 2017, 12:24:18 PM
1. - Waffle changes out three vBases for three small airfields with the maproom on the airfield. They are 13 miles from each other creating lots of fruballs and tank combat in the center of them at tank town. This sets a precedence for specific situations to space airfields that close while testing if closer airfields will generate more activity.
2. - Waffle introduces static one off bridges for the Melee arena terrains and Hitech publicly invests precious debug time to make them work. And publicly states he likes the idea of indestructible bridges acting as GV combat choke points.
3. - Waffle introduces buzzsaw and is willing to tweek it from player feed back. Good way to gather information in real time on how players utilize the arena today. Asking questions in the forums results in answers of what the player sees in his fantasies about the game. Reading complaints tells you exactly how players utilize the arena.
If you connect the dots in some manner, you can slow down GV's with choke points courtesy of Hitech while turning an airfield into the center of the fight. If you want to ignore a flashing base, you loose it because an M3 just de-acks and drops troops. Never tested to see if the 50. on an M3 has enough ammo to do that though. Or, just have a friend be a suicide porker. If you check out what is making it flash, you have a very good chance to whiz on a GV's day and camp some bridges to snipe M3's and tanks. And because precedence now shows closer airfields of equal elevations generate air combat, you place most of your airfields 19 miles apart versus the standard 25 and farther. The three airfields on NDisles, static bridge objects, and buzzsaw being quickly modified by Waffle looks like someone trying to adjust the game without disrupting the game with the wrong overnight changes.
So you end up with me creating a new terrain and taking this experiment a bit farther. Of the 29 feilds in each country on my new terrain, 7 of them have the new bridges to slow down GVs. Six of them are a small airfield with the maproom next to the tower. One is a GV's nightmare assault.
Here's what it looks like, three indestructible bridges between the airfield and the spawns and no town to make the M3 the most dangerous tool in the game.
(https://s20.postimg.org/p90u775zh/oceania240.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/rdpsm0wzx/oceania246.jpg)
A GV nightmare assault up a 500ft climb, the two bridges will be camped waiting for end runs. The center ramp is to make it possible to win with some effort.
(https://s20.postimg.org/gr8uj2v4d/oceania229.jpg)
Waffle's precedence of three small airfields with maproom on the field 13 miles apart.
(https://s20.postimg.org/ijuar6knh/oceania238.jpg)
Post by: Zardoz on September 07, 2017, 12:36:54 PM
:salute
Post by: Ramesis on September 07, 2017, 01:53:06 PM
Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name Sortie %
M-3 35.91%
Wirbelwind 18.41%
T-34/85 6.70%
Panzer IV H 13.33%
Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....
M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.
The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.
My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.
-10000000000....
Post by: ACE on September 07, 2017, 02:26:50 PM
-10000000000....Saying no doesn't benefit the conversation in any way. Please elaborate.
Post by: DubiousKB on September 07, 2017, 05:48:00 PM
+10 For making supply convoys matter again! (trains & vehicle convoys)
Post by: JunkyII on September 07, 2017, 10:19:44 PM
I have the strangest sense I've heard all this before...With the same lack of an decent argument for those who want to keep it the way it is...
Again can someone please tell me how nerfing M3 town resupply will effect the game in a negative way other then people have to up a combat aircraft or vehicle to hold a base?
The way it is now just kills fights...simple and that's it. For the land grabbers that might be ok but for anyone looking for a REAL fight....it's terrible.
Post by: bustr on September 08, 2017, 12:16:06 AM
You gents are free to build a terrain with a maproom on the airfields and no towns. It will be just like 19 years ago and the M3 really won't have any real job other than deliver troops. You can get really outrageous and put a river with bridges at every field at the same time so one or two guys can stop all incoming GV's from the spawn at will.
Who knows, if my experiment shows GVers like using it and M3's are slowed down, someone with time to kill can add it to many of the current terrains if Hitech decides he likes it to. Just dig a ditch 2 miles out from the town and drop in bridges over it exactly like Waffle did with the super large airfields. Then the M3 still has a role but takes skill to pull it off.
Post by: ccvi on September 08, 2017, 03:06:24 AM
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
It's slightly asymmetric, but if that's no combat then there's not much combat in many of today's wars either.
Post by: The Fugitive on September 08, 2017, 08:16:52 AM
If a player doesn't want to fight in a fighter, there really isn't any way to get him into one. What is needed is more numbers. 10 percent of 100 players makes it hard to find a fight. 10 percent of 500 makes the odds a bit better.
Post by: Wiley on September 08, 2017, 09:39:49 AM
With the same lack of an decent argument for those who want to keep it the way it is...
Again can someone please tell me how nerfing M3 town resupply will effect the game in a negative way other then people have to up a combat aircraft or vehicle to hold a base?
The way it is now just kills fights...simple and that's it. For the land grabbers that might be ok but for anyone looking for a REAL fight....it's terrible.
I don't like how it works, but as Fugi said, many if not most of those people will not immediately leap into fighters and come to fight. For whatever reason, there is a contingent of people who are here to play Euro Truck Simulator 1945.
As far as a counter-argument, if you reduce the M3's effectiveness, I would say there's a decent to high possibility that it would just mean more people and more time spent in M3s because it will take more runs to do the same job.
And if you remove it entirely, I'd expect more field gun and Wirb use.
There are players who are not here to fight in aircraft. I do not understand why, but they are here, and there are a lot of them.
Wiley.
Post by: Devil 505 on September 08, 2017, 10:22:30 AM
While I agree that the M3 resupply sucks, I don't think removing it will get those players into the air to defend. Bases will become easier to take and those defends will move to what ever field they think is next in line e for a capture to roll out vehicle supplies and setup the defense in wirbles.
If a player doesn't want to fight in a fighter, there really isn't any way to get him into one. What is needed is more numbers. 10 percent of 100 players makes it hard to find a fight. 10 percent of 500 makes the odds a bit better.
I don't like how it works, but as Fugi said, many if not most of those people will not immediately leap into fighters and come to fight. For whatever reason, there is a contingent of people who are here to play Euro Truck Simulator 1945.
As far as a counter-argument, if you reduce the M3's effectiveness, I would say there's a decent to high possibility that it would just mean more people and more time spent in M3s because it will take more runs to do the same job.
And if you remove it entirely, I'd expect more field gun and Wirb use.
There are players who are not here to fight in aircraft. I do not understand why, but they are here, and there are a lot of them.
Wiley.
The solution is simple. You slap a big 6K icon back on all the GV's and perk the Wirbs. Let the tank busters have a field day. Then the fighters will show up to kill the tank busters
Post by: Wiley on September 08, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Wiley.
Post by: Lazerr on September 08, 2017, 10:30:33 AM
If you want my opinion of 17 years of playing this, adjustments to manned gun gameplay and m3 effectiveness are really two things hampering the big battles for bases we had in the past.
These two factors absolutely ruin gameplay at low population hours, while still noticable during primetime.
Post by: Lazerr on September 08, 2017, 10:33:28 AM
The solution is simple. You slap a big 6K icon back on all the GV's and perk the Wirbs. Let the tank busters have a field day. Then the fighters will show up to kill the tank busters
I thought about the icons too.. but I dont think increasing them is the answer.
I think simply put.. the supplies ability needs to be nerfed. I assume convoys will be back with us soon.. let the computer do the brunt of that work.
Like Wiley said.. it would put the rest of the gv defenders at a huge disadvantage.
Post by: Devil 505 on September 08, 2017, 10:41:25 AM
So... essentially you're saying put GVs entirely at a disadvantage to aircraft.
Wiley.
Damn right. :aok
Post by: Wiley on September 08, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
Damn right. :aok
LOL while I feel the "Get in a plane" sentiment as much as the next guy, it just doesn't work that way. People give up instead of countering.
Wiley.
Post by: LilMak on September 08, 2017, 10:53:52 AM
So... essentially you're saying put GVs entirely at a disadvantage to aircraft.There is a reason Panzer divisions liked bad weather and it's not because they had an advantage.
Wiley.
My opinion is that it's easier to GV than it is to fly. Spawns are so close to targets that the primary advantage of aircraft (speed) is negated. People will always take the path of least resistance and, as long as there is less effort to be made for GVs, there will be a segment of the population that will take that option.
Post by: Mister Fork on September 08, 2017, 11:14:24 AM
-1 for removing re-supply completely
+10 For making supply convoys matter again! (trains & vehicle convoys)
...and make the train and boat supply convoy 100% repair the field too so that an attacking force has to take them out before they reach their destination.
Post by: DubiousKB on September 08, 2017, 12:26:00 PM
...and make the train and boat supply convoy 100% repair the field too so that an attacking force has to take them out before they reach their destination.
Just make the m3's only able to repair say 50% of the town guns, and only 50% of the town... Road convoy and/or train re-supplies the rest... Then there's a hard "window" where the attackers have the opportunity to capture. Attackers would then need to kill the M3 supply (to a lesser extent) , and/or ensure the timed convoy doesn't reach town before friendly troops...
Defenders would be forced to defend the convoy/train town or have it vulnerable. At least this way, quick trips with M3's can "defend" a town by keeping it half up with some guns up, but still easily defeated given a proper attack.
I dunno. my shower thought..... :D
I agree that the user created convoys of M3's are somewhat bland... yeah I can use my 50cal to shoot at bad guys, but meh... Not exciting for this guy.
Post by: Devil 505 on September 08, 2017, 01:11:09 PM
I thought about the icons too.. but I dont think increasing them is the answer.
I think simply put.. the supplies ability needs to be nerfed. I assume convoys will be back with us soon.. let the computer do the brunt of that work.
Like Wiley said.. it would put the rest of the gv defenders at a huge disadvantage.
Except resupply is only one facet of the M3 problem. The extreme use of the M3 is a symptom of the overall overuse of GV's in general. By making GV's easier to spot, hunt, and kill from the air, the M3/resupply effectiveness will be reduced while simultaneously promoting more air combat overall.
Post by: Wiley on September 08, 2017, 01:13:59 PM
Except resupply is only one facet of the M3 problem. The extreme use of the M3 is a symptom of the overall overuse of GV's in general. By making GV's easier to spot, hunt, and kill from the air, the M3/resupply effectiveness will be reduced while simultaneously promoting more air combat overall.
That's not a foregone conclusion. It will most assuredly promote less GV usage. More air combat does not necessarily follow from that.
Wiley.
Post by: Delirium on September 08, 2017, 01:20:04 PM
Imagine if the Germans had air supremacy, it would have changed (and likely eliminated) the Redball Express. With this in mind, the supply/logistic players would have an even bigger role but it would take more organization to make it a viable alternative. This increased organization would equate to a layered offense or defense, encouraging more combat (on the ground and in the air) over something as simple as logistics.
Post by: Devil 505 on September 08, 2017, 01:22:58 PM
That's not a foregone conclusion. It will most assuredly promote less GV usage. More air combat does not necessarily follow from that.
Wiley.
Maybe not more, at least not immediately, but the air combat will be better.
Post by: Lazerr on September 08, 2017, 01:32:34 PM
I guess the goal of my rant of the last few years is to limit the effectiveness of supplies.. not nerf the gv game.
I understand there are still big battles for bases.. but there could be x2 as many if not for this gamey tactic.
Especially at low population hours.
Id would be nice to hear somethin from Hitech regarding this. I dont recall him commenting on any of these supply threads.
Post by: Mano on September 08, 2017, 01:45:05 PM
Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name Sortie %
M-3 35.91%
Wirbelwind 18.41%
T-34/85 6.70%
Panzer IV H 13.33%
Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....
M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.
The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.
My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.
I did not read this entire thread......but my suggestion is:
If there are too many M-3's bringing in supplies....why don't you up a M-8 and go kill them all? The M-8 can hide in the trees an avoid detection from harassing airplanes, then ambush the M-3's going by. They are running a straight bee line to the town and rarely do any of the drivers pay attention. Shoot the truck driver and boom, one shot they are gone. :D :D :D
:salute
Post by: Ramesis on September 08, 2017, 01:45:52 PM
Saying no doesn't benefit the conversation in any way. Please elaborate.
uuuuhhhh... I didn't say no
:rofl
Post by: Zener on September 08, 2017, 02:08:23 PM
...but my suggestion is:
If there are too many M-3's bringing in supplies....why don't you up a M-8 and go kill them all? The M-8 can hide in the trees an avoid detection from harassing airplanes, then ambush the M-3's going by. They are running a straight bee line to the town and rarely do any of the drivers pay attention. Shoot the truck driver and boom, one shot they are gone. :D :D :D
:salute
While this might seem the most common sense approach, for some reason there is a belief that "if you change X, players will (automatically) do Y, and it's Y we're after." So rather than deal with the M3s and see if the predicted increase in fights ensures, the notion seems to be that reducing/eliminating them will make more players jump in a fighter. I doubt it will. There are places on just about every map where continuing fights occur, but rather than hang there, some want it to happen over every airfield (with little interference from manned guns, of course). In the last few months I can only recall ONE instance where a bunch of players were available, upped fighters, and totally repelled an attempted base take from a nearby field and a CV offshore. I'm sure there were more, but that's the only one I witnessed, so I believe it to be a seldom-occurring thing. That isn't going to change no matter if you took M3s out of the game and made troop/supply a goon-only thing or an AI thing. As someone stated earlier, changing the M3 does not follow by an automatic increase in fighter defense.
I just wonder what the next reason will be after nerfing M3s. Tanks are too fast? Not enough town buildings/too many town buildings? Runways too long? Oceans too deep?
Post by: Wiley on September 08, 2017, 02:15:44 PM
While this might seem the most common sense approach, for some reason there is a belief that "if you change X, players will (automatically) do Y, and it's Y we're after." So rather than deal with the M3s and see if the predicted increase in fights ensures, the notion seems to be that reducing/eliminating them will make more players jump in a fighter. I doubt it will. There are places on just about every map where continuing fights occur, but rather than hang there, some want it to happen over every airfield (with little interference from manned guns, of course). In the last few months I can only recall ONE instance where a bunch of players were available, upped fighters, and totally repelled an attempted base take from a nearby field and a CV offshore. I'm sure there were more, but that's the only one I witnessed, so I believe it to be a seldom-occurring thing. That isn't going to change no matter if you took M3s out of the game and made troop/supply a goon-only thing or an AI thing. As someone stated earlier, changing the M3 does not follow by an automatic increase in fighter defense.
I just wonder what the next reason will be after nerfing M3s. Tanks are too fast? Not enough town buildings/too many town buildings? Runways too long? Oceans too deep?
I believe the next one to gain traction would be "tanks spawn too close to the base". You can see rumblings of it in this thread.
Wiley.
Post by: scott66 on September 08, 2017, 02:53:11 PM
I did not read this entire thread......but my suggestion is:finally a voice of reason ..+1
If there are too many M-3's bringing in supplies....why don't you up a M-8 and go kill them all? The M-8 can hide in the trees an avoid detection from harassing airplanes, then ambush the M-3's going by. They are running a straight bee line to the town and rarely do any of the drivers pay attention. Shoot the truck driver and boom, one shot they are gone. :D :D :D
:salute
Post by: bustr on September 08, 2017, 05:18:23 PM
Saying it this way would have gotten Junky or Lazerr told to quit whining and man up with no one actually looking at why they were bringing this to the forums.
Hitech may be moving the 88 off feilds and onto a mobile platform, and he expedited debuging bridges because he likes the idea of them causing choke points for vehicles.
Post by: JunkyII on September 08, 2017, 09:45:47 PM
It's slightly asymmetric, but if that's no combat then there's not much combat in many of today's wars either.You are absolutely right there isn't(Most engagements in Afghanistan lasted the time it took to get air support on station)...but this is a video game which is supposed to simulate combat, if we are simulating the sustainment piece....then the amount of time to resupply should be tremendously higher.
You can feel a bit for the original game play incidents some time back that got Junky talking about this. It's not as bad during prime time when you have enough players to occasionally police the spawns for M3. It's low peak time when one or two of you are prepping a field and there is no way to keep up with one guy who can run in M3's faster than one or two of you can find him. And he won't up a ride or even a tank and fight. he probably was hopping in a 88 and trying to tag them as his middle finger response to them asking him to fight. To a player like Junky or Lazerr, what is the point of playing the game without any opportunity to counter the M3 which is now being used to greif them because it's not against the rules. It doesn't reach the scale of the 49ers keeping the HQ down almost every night on the Fester map because there was no rule against doing it. But, one guy has always been found to be able to make players want to quit by over using the rules knowing they are pushing the envelope.I first noticed this issue when the MA numbers were well over 300....it's not griefing, players more interested about the fields themselves have just found an EASY way to keep them...I'm asking for it to be nerfed because a NERF generally leads to different options being used.
Saying it this way would have gotten Junky or Lazerr told to quit whining and man up with no one actually looking at why they were bringing this to the forums.
Hitech may be moving the 88 off feilds and onto a mobile platform, and he expedited debuging bridges because he likes the idea of them causing choke points for vehicles.
CSGO just nerfed the Tech N9ne, a weapon everyone thought was OP....now you see a lot less of them because they aren't as effective.
Can you destroy the choke points you were talking about in earlier post? If not then that isn't a fix at all.....read my reply to Mano below...the point is I don't want to sit at a choke point and kill M3s all day long....Theres ZERO fight in it.
I did not read this entire thread......but my suggestion is:I've done this, I've had 10+ kills in a FW190F8 all of M3s....guess how much fun I was having.....0. I've got enough kills while playing AH and landed big sorties that the hoopla around it is nothing....it's the fight....and the way you explained it pretty much proves my point that it isn't a fight.
If there are too many M-3's bringing in supplies....why don't you up a M-8 and go kill them all? The M-8 can hide in the trees an avoid detection from harassing airplanes, then ambush the M-3's going by. They are running a straight bee line to the town and rarely do any of the drivers pay attention. Shoot the truck driver and boom, one shot they are gone. :D :D :D
:salute
finally a voice of reason ..+1See above...your voice of reason helped my point so I guess your +1 is for M3 nerf now.
Oh and I certainly don't want to see an end to the ground war....which for sure helps push the fights along and evolve....the thing I'm asking to nerf(Make Far Less Effective) is the M3s ability to resupply town....NOT EVEN THE FIELD....just town itself.
I'd rather see 1000 whirbs sitting on a field then a single M3 running town supps ANYDAY....at least they are defending a field by meeting COMBAT with COMBAT....COMBAT with SUPPLY.
Post by: bustr on September 09, 2017, 01:16:17 AM
Anyone building MA terrains can see my screen shots or talk to me about how to setup the river and bridges.
Post by: Ack-Ack on September 09, 2017, 02:34:43 AM
Post by: Zimme83 on September 09, 2017, 02:47:26 AM
Post by: bozon on September 09, 2017, 05:32:27 AM
I did not read this entire thread......but my suggestion is:I tried taking an M8 the other day.
If there are too many M-3's bringing in supplies....why don't you up a M-8 and go kill them all? The M-8 can hide in the trees an avoid detection from harassing airplanes, then ambush the M-3's going by. They are running a straight bee line to the town and rarely do any of the drivers pay attention. Shoot the truck driver and boom, one shot they are gone. :D :D :D
:salute
Couldn't get it off the ground. :headscratch:
Post by: Crash Orange on September 09, 2017, 07:00:41 AM
While this might seem the most common sense approach, for some reason there is a belief that "if you change X, players will (automatically) do Y, and it's Y we're after." So rather than deal with the M3s and see if the predicted increase in fights ensures, the notion seems to be that reducing/eliminating them will make more players jump in a fighter. I doubt it will.
THIS
How many times do we need to flog this horse that's deader than Monty Python's parrot?
JunkyII must have screamed bloody murder about this a hundred times on this forum, and I must have given the same answer a hundred times, and he still has yet to acknowledge it, much less get it.
THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR PROPOSAL WILL NOT BE WHAT YOU WISH THEM TO BE, AND YOU WILL NOT LIKE THEM.
No matter how much you want or what you do, you canNOT dictate the way other players play. Even if your way is better. Even if they'd enjoy your way more if they tried it. Even if everyone else would enjoy the game more if they tried it. You just can't. You cannot force combat-shy players to hop in a fighter and take off to defend a base, no matter how much better the game would be if they did. Most likely they will just hop in an 88 instead and bang away until the base falls, like we already see every night once numbers get low. Or just go somewhere else and do something else, or log. If they wanted to fight they'd be fighting as it is. If they don't, they won't want it any more after this change.
The change you'll actually see is 10 times as many base sneaks with no combat as you have now, because having no effective way to resupply means that once you pork the strats a little a couple of players can take Lancs up and WFand/or deack 6 or 8 bases along the front and then sneak M3s into them for the next two hours, bailing once they've dropped troops so the town stops flashing, while the one or two defenders run around trying to whack more moles than they have mallets. The overall result will be LESS combat, not more. Instead of forcing people to defend bases from attackers who want a fight, what you will actually accomplish is making it easier for attackers to take fields without risking a fight. And you will not be happy, and you will just lobby for another ill-considered rules change meant to force players to fight in the air with you but which will actually have the opposite effect.
As for the numbers. it's a shame the stats can't tell what those M3s were carrying, because I'd be willing to bet that half of them were carrying troops and half the rest were carrying vehicle supplies. For every time I've seen people mass resupply a town under attack I've seen many more instances of people flooding a town with troop-carrying M3s (or LVTs) while defenders slaughter them en masse like ducks in a shooting gallery.
Post by: Crash Orange on September 09, 2017, 07:11:28 AM
What you CAN do with resupply is stop endless attempts to sneak the same base. Which is as it should be. If the attackers can't do it right the first two times they try to take a nearly undefended base, they deserve to lose.
Post by: captain1ma on September 09, 2017, 08:47:45 AM
Post by: lunatic1 on September 09, 2017, 10:00:26 AM
same old whine here. kill M3's so they can roll bases vulch airfield runways.
a lot of the people here that want to stop base resupply are the same ones who want to get rid of airfield 88's and nerf the 37mm auto ack, big surprise. it's funny because you cry it's hard to find a fight, a airfield gets deacked a plane tries to up and he/she gets pounced on by at the least 3 other planes hovering over the runway. that is not a fight, and while you are capping and vulching what are the rest of your country men doing RUNNING M3's to capture the base. have ANY of you ever asked your own country men how they feel about getting rid of the M3 base supply to defend their bases and towns. to me the overall objective of this game is to win bases to win the map, running supplies to a town to deny a base take. in real war troops, vehicles, aircraft are moved into a town to deny the enemy from taking that town correct, in real life your town/base gets attacked stuff-gets destroyed, damaged so you run supplies replace vehicles and replace casualties. almost same here except casualties nobody really dies here, and can reupp. like someone posted you want to stop base resupply kill the M3's running supplies camp the spawn if you have to. do a little work in the game and stop looking for easy kills, you all use the term clubbing baby seal (horrible expression by the way) the M3's are the baby seal of this game. oh and by the way I almost forgot, it's easier to find a actual fight or dual if you quit coming in at 20 to 25k trying to pick a plane instead actually fighting with it, you want a fight let the people get off the ground, you will get your fight. and most M3 resuppers are Gv guys they don't fly anyway. it's usally just 2 maybe 3 at the most running supps.
LEAVE THE M3'S ALONE
Post by: Marco on September 09, 2017, 10:11:02 AM
Post by: ccvi on September 21, 2017, 04:16:28 PM
Post by: Zener on September 21, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
Other slightly newer games have developed a mode called domination, which might work here, too. Simply create air superiority over a certain area, and that piece of land will change hands.
Because every time you engaged in a fight it creates a chance your side's numbers would diminish and lose "superiority." It would make horde flying without engagement a winning tactic. That seems a bit counterproductive while also not considering the role of GVs in the game.
Imagine sneaking a CV inside the dar ring of a field, a mission launches and POOF the field is captured. Seems more like Air Threaten-er than Air Warrior.
Post by: BuckShot on September 21, 2017, 05:53:21 PM
M3s should haul only troops and vehicle supplies and the actual vehicle repair/ rearm should take some time, maybe 30 seconds like a plane rearm.
That is all we need.
Post by: scott66 on September 23, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
Get rid of ALL object resupply.umm no.... If you do that you might as well perk the 190d, yak3 and ponyd since there is just as much whining about M3s as there are those planes
M3s should haul only troops and vehicle supplies and the actual vehicle repair/ rearm should take some time, maybe 30 seconds like a plane rearm.
That is all we need.
Post by: zack1234 on September 24, 2017, 03:37:21 AM
Having a squddie shooting for you was good :old:
Post by: Blinky on September 25, 2017, 12:08:10 PM
Post by: 1ijac on September 25, 2017, 12:33:21 PM
one-eye
Post by: Randy1 on September 26, 2017, 05:56:11 AM
Why all the debate? With the system the way it is now, bases still get rolled and saved while maps are still won. M3 resupply evens out the playing field. Sometimes you just have to be a little more strategic when you are trying to capture a base.
one-eye
Well posted.
Post by: Greebo on September 26, 2017, 06:33:06 AM
Post by: popeye on September 26, 2017, 08:30:58 AM
Why all the debate? With the system the way it is now, bases still get rolled and saved while maps are still won. M3 resupply evens out the playing field. Sometimes you just have to be a little more strategic when you are trying to capture a base.
one-eye
Yes.
I would argue that there are times when M3 resupply creates MORE of a fight by extending the time a base capture is contested. Horde attacks, bomb-and -bailers, sneaks by stealth TGs, and 1-pass WF bombers over fields that have been deacked for 2 hours are probably just as effective fight-killers as M3 resupply.
The biggest fight-killing aspect of M3 resupply is removing one or more players from combat for an extended time to resupply Strat that has been destroyed by a single bomber.
Post by: Flayed1 on September 26, 2017, 08:41:11 AM
In the end I feel that things are working as intended and there is plenty of fun to be had the way it is and has been. Hitech and crew have made a wonderful game. Is it perfect? Probably not but it works well enough and I am thoroughly enjoying myself once again.
Heh, I'd almost forgotten how much fun these lil debates are. Thank you, it's been a while. ;) :salute
Post by: bustr on September 26, 2017, 12:59:56 PM
When you think about supply systems, the artery's and the conveyances were fragile. The conveyances could not supply the front reliably if the artery's were not in place. In our game the M3 is a dominant force because it can range across the landscape to protect itself. With the new trees, they can become invisible. In WW2 disrupting supply lines was possible because the supply vehicles had to follow known routes and not range across the landscape getting stuck. Instead they got ambushed stuck on the known routes.
Quite a conundrum for Hitech.
Post by: Wiley on September 26, 2017, 01:18:47 PM
Quote
Quite a conundrum for Hitech.
Not particularly. The M3s seem to be doing what they do. Those of us that don't like it are vocal, but not that numerous. Apparently it's a popular feature.
Wiley.
Post by: Lazerr on September 26, 2017, 01:38:55 PM
Action attracks new players.. maybe im wrong in assuming new folks wont consider playing whack a mole with someone running supplies for 14.95 a month.
What did we do back in the good ole days when supplying a base wasnt an option?
Wirbs.. tanks.. planes... from the base under attack and the next one back.
Post by: Wiley on September 26, 2017, 01:43:51 PM
Wiley.
Post by: popeye on September 26, 2017, 02:08:54 PM
Action attracks new players.. maybe im wrong in assuming new folks wont consider playing whack a mole with someone running supplies for 14.95 a month.
You might think that people pay for action, but there is much evidence to the contrary: stealth TG base capture, high flying buffs attacking Strats (then bailing), suicide jabos killing radar and ordnance to inhibit field defense, GVs killing the VH and ack then camping the field, buffs deacking Vbases for sneaks, suicide bombers killing CVs to stop an attack, a horde deacking a field to suppress defenders, etc., etc. It seems that a lot players are dedicated to base capture which can often be accomplished best with tactics that inhibit or avoid "action". The action-killing effect is only magnified during low-number times.
That said, everyone gets to decide what to do with their $14.95.
Post by: Ramesis on September 26, 2017, 02:56:20 PM
You might think that people pay for action, but there is much evidence to the contrary: stealth TG base capture, high flying buffs attacking Strats (then bailing), suicide jabos killing radar and ordnance to inhibit field defense, GVs killing the VH and ack then camping the field, buffs deacking Vbases for sneaks, suicide bombers killing CVs to stop an attack, a horde deacking a field to suppress defenders, etc., etc. It seems that a lot players are dedicated to base capture which can often be accomplished best with tactics that inhibit or avoid "action". The action-killing effect is only magnified during low-number times.
That said, everyone gets to decide what to do with their $14.95.
Amen to that
:aok
Post by: bustr on September 26, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
During peak hours with 150-200 players the M3 is just another part of the game. Some players remember to wipe them out during a base capture, some don't and the capture stalls. No biggie, and the game rolls on. The strongest complaints have been from off-peak time players with numbers closer to 75 and air combat only players. In effect two very different games due to the time period. So the off-peak players are trying to convince Hitech to change the game to suit them and believe the peak time players will get over it and move along with the change "obediently". Since the current game only has the functions to make changes that are 24x7 for everyone during all time slots. Obediently is an interesting assumption of faith on their part, unless they figure Hitech will take the storm and they will get what they want.
Gotta admit lately there have been some number of complaints from the off-peak and air combat only players asking Hitech to change the game away from where he has spent the last decade evolving it. So the conundrum has a number of directions. Invest the cost and time to create a morph process that changes the game into a small numbers, small land mass area, air combat focused game during low-peak times stripped of the things complained about. Or, change the full time game to this eliminating everything that the low-peak and air combat vocal proponents dictate is killing the game. An undercurrent of sentiment by a number of them indicates they believe the game will die if Hitech doesn't force all of his customers to fly and fight in the air like they wish for.
Or, invest the time to change the game back end to be more dynamic so at some low-peak number threshold, suddenly no M3, no GV, no ack, and only several bases 13-19 miles apart will launch players. And for good measure in the spirit of this, flying outside of the operational area of those several bases disables your guns "for running away". After all players are unceremoniously warped to those bases when the threshold function burps in. They can sit in the tower, fight, or log off and find another game to play. Can't help but see the parallels to changing the Melee arena into a giant old school DA arena from AH2's glory days. But, those voicing the complaints won't want to admit to that as the distilled down result of their complaints. Once again they don't know if this is what all the other peak and off-peak time players want to log into for their $14.95, they only really know about their own $14.95. Personal projection with anecdotal evidence to roll out product changes is not a good business model I've been told.
So, lets see, the game is dying this time because of man-able and auto ack, M3's as uber resupply trucks with Romulan cloaking devices, and because the game is not about manning up and only fighting in the air 24x7. Sure looks like the old DA if you eliminate and implement all of that. There has been a small but vocal group since AH2 advocating for exactly this. They do not like many of the other functions and none aircraft objects Hitech has introduced over the years getting in the way of their only stated reason to play the game, Air Combat. And they want Hitech to make everyone else play the game their way because otherwise, he is killing his game in their opinion.
The off-peak time players have always had it rough with numbers, relatively, versus peak time. First, remove most of what is complained about killing the game this time around from the argument. Those forced into off-peak time by location or work, have a legitimate concern of trying to play the game in a cricket town arena at much of the time. Some number of the vocal minority concerned with off-peak time and the outlined complaints, I also see them on during peak time. My impression of their peak time grousing, AH3 is not a massive air combat only arena, where the only activity allowable is upping aircraft to fight. But, when people are venting on VOX, range and 200, that's not the real them I guess. They are not venting about what they really want out of the game, they are just being iconic personalities we all admire. Hmmmm, something like "I am not the droid you are looking for in this argument"..... :lol
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 26, 2017, 03:24:39 PM
Now you are highlighting another conundrum of our game.Nailed it, you have :aok
During peak hours with 150-200 players the M3 is just another part of the game. Some players remember to wipe them out during a base capture, some don't and the capture stalls. No biggie, and the game rolls on. The strongest complaints have been from off-peak time players with numbers closer to 75 and air combat only players. In effect two very different games due to the time period. So the off-peak players are trying to convince Hitech to change the game to suit them and believe the peak time players will get over it and move along with the change "obediently". Since the current game only has the functions to make changes that are 24x7 for everyone during all time slots. Obediently is an interesting assumption of faith on their part, unless they figure Hitech will take the storm and they will get what they want.
Gotta admit lately there have been some number of complaints from the off-peak and air combat only players asking Hitech to change the game away from where he has spent the last decade evolving it. So the conundrum has a number of directions. Invest the cost and time to create a morph process that changes the game into a small numbers, small land mass area, air combat focused game during low-peak times stripped of the things complained about. Or, change the full time game to this eliminating everything that the low-peak and air combat vocal proponents dictate is killing the game. An undercurrent of sentiment by a number of them indicates they believe the game will die if Hitech doesn't force all of his customers to fly and fight in the air like they wish for.
Or, invest the time to change the game back end to be more dynamic so at some low-peak number threshold, suddenly no M3, no GV, no ack, and only several bases 13-19 miles apart will launch players. And for good measure in the spirit of this, flying outside of the operational area of those several bases disables your guns "for running away". After all players are unceremoniously warped to those bases when the threshold function burps in. They can sit in the tower, fight, or log off and find another game to play. Can't help but see the parallels to changing the Melee arena into a giant old school DA arena from AH2's glory days. But, those voicing the complaints won't want to admit to that as the distilled down result of their complaints. Once again they don't know if this is what all the other peak and off-peak time players want to log into for their $14.95, they only really know about their own $14.95. Personal projection with anecdotal evidence to roll out product changes is not a good business model I've been told.
So, lets see, the game is dying this time because of man-able and auto ack, M3's as uber resupply trucks with Romulan cloaking devices, and because the game is not about manning up and only fighting in the air 24x7. Sure looks like the old DA if you eliminate and implement all of that. There has been a small but vocal group since AH2 advocating for exactly this. They do not like many of the other functions and none aircraft objects Hitech has introduced over the years getting in the way of their only stated reason to play the game, Air Combat. And they want Hitech to make everyone else play the game their way because otherwise, he is killing his game in their opinion.
The off-peak time players have always had it rough with numbers, relatively, versus peak time. First, remove most of what is complained about killing the game this time around from the argument. Those forced into off-peak time by location or work, have a legitimate concern of trying to play the game in a cricket town arena at much of the time. Some number of the vocal minority concerned with off-peak time and the outlined complaints, I also see them on during peak time. My impression of their peak time grousing, AH3 is not a massive air combat only arena, where the only activity allowable is upping aircraft to fight. But, when people are venting on VOX, range and 200, that's not the real them I guess. They are not venting about what they really want out of the game, they are just being iconic personalities we all admire. Hmmmm, something like "I am not the droid you are looking for in this argument"..... :lol
Post by: Devil 505 on September 26, 2017, 05:14:48 PM
What I want to see is multifaceted air combat. But to have that, we need to give incentive to some of the current GV'ers to accomplish their goals in aircraft instead.
I've said this all before.
want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope
need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3
other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank
Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb
As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.
I really think that simply setting the GV icons back to 6.0K will fix most of what's broken in the current game.
Post by: bustr on September 26, 2017, 06:40:48 PM
You have enough presence of mind to know a furball only game at this late date will not work for anyone to keep the game alive. The others who grouse and rant probably do, but, they don't care because they are not getting what they want from this game. So anything becomes a vehicle to tell Hitech the world is ending one more time without starting their own wish list post telling him exactly what is ticking them off or what they really want him to do about it. In the game grousing all comes out, make the Melee arena furballing only and ditch the rest I'm unhappy poop on you. Some go as far as the game will die because of GVs.
Junky has made a not unrealistic observation about how the M3 is used, then beat the ghost of the horse into dust with subsequent opportunities. The rest are piggy backing the process while waving the M3 banner to flutter cover for what they don't like and want. Black and white or extreme, no. Not convoluted to avoid being obvious, yes. This is not the U.N. and they are not trying to broker some multilateral extremely convoluted deal amongst nations. They want the game rolled back to some Halcyon Days of the game where all the AI and GVs were not as important to such a large part of the community for their personal game success. And do you think this forum community wouldn't talk smack about them if they just came out and took that position? Wouldn't it sound a lot like telling kids to get off their lawn......
Post by: atlau on September 26, 2017, 10:24:28 PM
In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".
Post by: Lazerr on September 27, 2017, 01:04:57 AM
Giving people more gameplay options is in my opinion better than taking them away. Many of the dedicated GVers would probably quit the game rather than fly planes.
In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".
:headscratch:
Post by: Blinky on September 27, 2017, 01:12:53 AM
Giving people more gameplay options is in my opinion better than taking them away. Many of the dedicated GVers would probably quit the game rather than fly planes.+1000000000000000
In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".
Post by: popeye on September 27, 2017, 07:58:08 AM
In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".
Seems to work well on the island map. Even better if the bases were uncapturable and the radar and ack were unkillable.
Post by: Biggamer on September 27, 2017, 09:51:48 AM
Post by: Lazerr on September 27, 2017, 12:08:52 PM
The number of minutes each box takes off the times needs to be tied to the strats if town buildings are down for over 100 mins then 10 mins per box would be fine if town is only down 30 mins then 3 minutes per box. the way it is right now 2 people in a M3 can stop a 15 man mission in about 7 minutes time. you want to know why people avoid combat and go for undefended bases this right here is why The M3 is way to effective. there is many times we will see bombers IB to a base and up M3s drive them to town and as soon as his bombs impact bring it all up under him. Why up to shoot him down when i can ruin his sortie with an M3.
This is what has been suggested before and its perfect. Folks get to run their supplies without the unbalanced effects on a few guys trying to get a fight rolling on a front.
Post by: ccvi on September 27, 2017, 02:09:08 PM
Post by: Electroman on September 27, 2017, 02:32:09 PM
The number of minutes each box takes off the times needs to be tied to the strats if town buildings are down for over 100 mins then 10 mins per box would be fine if town is only down 30 mins then 3 minutes per box. the way it is right now 2 people in a M3 can stop a 15 man mission in about 7 minutes time. you want to know why people avoid combat and go for undefended bases this right here is why The M3 is way to effective. there is many times we will see bombers IB to a base and up M3s drive them to town and as soon as his bombs impact bring it all up under him. Why up to shoot him down when i can ruin his sortie with an M3.
No....Just....NO.
This has a cascade effect, not just on the GV'ers but the entire game play. For example, there are many dedicated bomber pilots that spend HOURS trying to get to distant strats just to give their country a fighting chance. If you make the change that you propose then hitting the strats become near useless and you take away a key point of a bomber pilots purpose.
M3's are a royal pain at times however when a mission is planned properly then it can be effective. Takeout the VH at the base that spawns into the capture base. If there are multiple spawns, get htose GV'ers active and camp the NME's spawn points with tanks to prevent M3's from getting in.
Whatever happened to creativeness & planning?
Cheers! :D
Elec1
Post by: CAV on September 27, 2017, 05:27:38 PM
Quote
In my opinion the best compromise is to have furball lake setup in the middle of the arenas with incapturable bases to allow the dedicated furballers to find a quick fight regardless of the current "war".
In my opinion, give them (the dedicated furballers) their own small arena, with that type of setup and map. Remove all the obstacles that get in the way of furballin and spawn camping, like resupplying, capture-able bases, scores, ranks and let them have their Arcade type fun. Then we can keep the main arena for combat simulation. If we keep watering down the MA We're going to end up with "War Thunder".
Post by: Wiley on September 27, 2017, 05:34:43 PM
Wiley.
Post by: Bruv119 on September 27, 2017, 05:47:47 PM
Just an FYI for all the M3 enthusiasts- Steam is having a sale on all Astragon produced games. This means such exciting titles as "Bus Simulator" and "Construction Simulator" are available for cheap.
Wiley.
:D word.
Post by: bustr on September 27, 2017, 06:23:04 PM
In my opinion, give them (the dedicated furballers) their own small arena, with that type of setup and map. Remove all the obstacles that get in the way of furballin and spawn camping, like resupplying, capture-able bases, scores, ranks and let them have their Arcade type fun. Then we can keep the main arena for combat simulation. If we keep watering down the MA We're going to end up with "War Thunder".
A note about terrain usage. My previous terrain BowlMA creates activity because a number of airfields are closer together and 9 per country have no GV spawns to them and are 19 miles from each other. Those bases get swamped with air activity for capture early during the prime time window. The other bases being mostly inside of 25miles apart then keep that activity going. The furballers follow the activity and poach the fight for kills. You don't need to radically change the game format for them. Just for now with the lower numbers, change the base distances for flying to a fight, to the minimums to give them access to targets to shoot at sooner. Most of our AH2 era terrains use longer distances to slow down hoards which makes our current numbers feel like they are pulling their teeth to find a furball or any kind of an air combat fight. And many have too many GV bases so even the tin canners get segregated from any kinds of initiatives with GV fights between vBases. So I've drastically reduced GV bases and set the spawns to follow the air combat initiatives. The GVers can self segregate on the center island in the TT object that I ringed with spawns, a canal, and indestructible bridges.
Hitech does not allow bases other than three near the HQ to be un-capturable. But, got you covered on the next terrain with a furballing caldera in the center. The map room is on the airfield, actually getting an M3 or c47 to the field will be interesting, and since the airfields sit on 600ft cliffs over the water, no sneaky LVT deliveries. And each country has two other feilds in a triangle 19 miles away to take it back. It's been obvious for some time fields need to be closer to keep everyone engaged. The majority of feilds on this terrain are 19-22 miles apart with the three in the center island the same as the furball island in the center of NDisles. I'm down to setting up PT spawns and shore battery's at this point in the production cycle.
(https://s20.postimg.org/q8ef4zsel/oceania264.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/rm1036lcd/oceania263.jpg)
Post by: EagleDNY on September 27, 2017, 06:37:30 PM
Post by: The Fugitive on September 27, 2017, 08:27:09 PM
For cripes sake if you are worried about resupply stopping your base take all you need to do is bomb the VH at the next base. Or heaven forbid a couple of guys take out the barracks and kill resupply for much longer.
I think the bigger issues are during the low population times. A few guys hit a base to stir up a fight and instead you see a couple guys doing town resupply runs.
Post by: Crash Orange on September 27, 2017, 09:16:56 PM
the way it is right now 2 people in a M3 can stop a 15 man mission in about 7 minutes time.
What on earth are the 12-13 people who are not in buffs or carrying troops doing all that time? 12 people can't kill 2 M3s? They must be incredibly incompetent pilots!
I think the bigger issues are during the low population times. A few guys hit a base to stir up a fight and instead you see a couple guys doing town resupply runs.
The basic flaw in reasoning that keeps popping up here is the assumption that if you stop them from doing that, they will have no choice but to do what you want instead. There's no reason to assume that. Most likely they'll just get in 88s or flaks and bang away until the base falls.
Post by: 1stpar3 on September 27, 2017, 11:30:11 PM
Post by: LilMak on September 27, 2017, 11:46:07 PM
A few guys hit a base to stir up a fight...There was once a time when it happened regularly. Used to be you could get an air to air fight going on any corner of the map. All you had to do was show up in the dar ring. Now there are too many tools to avoid actual toe to toe combat.
M3 resupply wasn't much of a big deal when hordes were 25 strong and there was 300+ players roaming the arena. Now they're just too effective given the player numbers. If you have 30 or so players and 3-4 of them running supplies, your reducing the number of combatants by a significant percentage. The ONLY reason I pay a subscription is to combat other players. M3 hide and seek isn't a part of combat. FedEx pays pretty good to deliver boxes no need to pay HT for the privilege.
Post by: Biggamer on September 28, 2017, 06:32:18 AM
Post by: popeye on September 28, 2017, 08:40:02 AM
Then, I noticed a friendly base on the other front that was WF and had no friendly spawn. No enemy aircraft there, but a stream of GVs who had already killed the VH, ords, and radar and had camped the field. I joined the 2 guys defending and spent 10 minutes circling the town in a light fighter watching for M3s and dodging Wirbs. Fun! Then a few enemy aircraft showed up to pick the defenders on the deck looking for GVs. Combat!
Bottom line, there was more air-air action at the "stalled" base take than defending a base without resupply. There's no guarantee that nerfing M3s is going to produce air combat heaven.
Post by: Lazerr on September 28, 2017, 11:28:12 AM
Last night I joined a base take effort that was being thwarted by LVTs from a TG parked offshore. It went on for a long time with plenty of air-air and ground action.
Then, I noticed a friendly base on the other front that was WF and had no friendly spawn. No enemy aircraft there, but a stream of GVs who had already killed the VH, ords, and radar and had camped the field. I joined the 2 guys defending and spent 10 minutes circling the town in a light fighter watching for M3s and dodging Wirbs. Fun! Then a few enemy aircraft showed up to pick the defenders on the deck looking for GVs. Combat!
Bottom line, there was more air-air action at the "stalled" base take than defending a base without resupply. There's no guarantee that nerfing M3s is going to produce air combat heaven.
Actually.. previous to resupply.. there was a steady flow of more and larger fights for bases.. not just furballs.. everyone using all combat aspects of the game to defend or capture a certain base.
Even after a base waa captured there was an "oh toejam.. we bettee defend against that huge dar coming to take it back."
This is one situation where a red dar has been replaced with buttnuggets in m3s. Ive filmed quite a few also if a picture would better demonstrate where it was an easy method to save a base, and also the cause of someone logging due to bordem.
Post by: Becinhu on September 28, 2017, 11:58:43 AM
No....Just....NO.
This has a cascade effect, not just on the GV'ers but the entire game play. For example, there are many dedicated bomber pilots that spend HOURS trying to get to distant strats just to give their country a fighting chance. If you make the change that you propose then hitting the strats become near useless and you take away a key point of a bomber pilots purpose.
M3's are a royal pain at times however when a mission is planned properly then it can be effective. Takeout the VH at the base that spawns into the capture base. If there are multiple spawns, get htose GV'ers active and camp the NME's spawn points with tanks to prevent M3's from getting in.
Whatever happened to creativeness & planning?
Cheers! :D
Elec1
Actually it would be the exact opposite. That would make start runs MORE effective.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bustr on September 28, 2017, 12:26:46 PM
What changed in AH2 that moved the M3 into a higher status combat role changing community perception about using it from both sides of the complaints?
Low numbers probably, and the real fact that upping meant facing predominately vets who were not fun casual fights like the game provided once with higher player numbers. We all have learned from experience that players will find something to give them an edge and leverage it past the point of keeping the game fun. If some vets looking to slaughter anyone stupid enough to up against them are blowing up your field and town to try and make you fight. One M3 load to the town will bring back the ack and part of the town, and so forth. Hopping in an 88 and letting fly will make those vets be a bit more cautious and even bag one or two. Get a few more like minded countrymen observing how successful these tactics are and it gets a life of it's own. Why face experienced vets who are the defacto majority in the arena and fail most of the time to those decade or more experienced players? POTW watched this unfold before AH3 went live. It's why Waystin became very good at de-acking feilds with a YakT and landing vulches from the endeavor. He wanted to get at the red guys or punish them by breaking their fields.
This is at the root of where we are now: Why face experienced vets who are the defacto majority in the arena and fail most of the time to those decade or more experienced players?
Late at night if you are one or two guys defending a field against 3 or more vets, why are they supposed to chuck their evening for the vets enjoyment when all they want to do is stop the vets from taking their field? And during the prime time window, there is no rule against resupplying with M3's anytime you choose to or shooting at planes with manned guns instead of a fighter. Lets give Hitech the respect that he is just as aware of all of this as we. In that case, give him the respect of outlining how you think the game has to be changed to make "you happy". Right now you guys are grousing and hoping he will get your inferences so you don't have to sound silly. Mostly the gist is take away M3's supplying abilities, remove manned guns, limit GV's and Force players to fight your way.
Post by: Biggamer on September 28, 2017, 01:30:55 PM
Post by: bustr on September 28, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
Most of this requires brute force from Hitech.
1. - Change the objects they use so the objects cannot impact the game.
2. - Change the game itself to make using those objects no longer viable.
3. - Impose rules against the community controlling using those objects other than in a narrowly described way.
4. - Wait for the game to evolve again, evolution got the game to where you don't like it. And it was a very obvious evolution while it happened.
From experience 1-2 takes a lot of "reasoning" with Hitech and may or may not happen while evolution during that time moves the focus of the complaints. And 2-3 can happen over night if something like ENY has to be imposed or changing the down time and amount of tonnage to destroy the HQ is imposed. Can you prove to Hitech that the things you are angry about are creating the extreme conditions under which he imposed ENY and the change to the HQ? If not, the forums are full of examples from the past of subjects that were reasoned to death and the game moved on taking the goal post with it spurring new subjects.
Post by: Ramesis on September 28, 2017, 02:02:23 PM
In my opinion, give them (the dedicated furballers) their own small arena, with that type of setup and map. Remove all the obstacles that get in the way of furballin and spawn camping, like resupplying, capture-able bases, scores, ranks and let them have their Arcade type fun. Then we can keep the main arena for combat simulation. If we keep watering down the MA We're going to end up with "War Thunder".
Thats what the DA was... but few used it
:bolt:
P.S.
I used to say to those that only wanted furball, why not just to DA?
I don't recall the reasons they gave
:airplane:
Post by: Lazerr on September 28, 2017, 02:16:31 PM
Thats what the DA was... but few used it
:bolt:
P.S.
I used to say to those that only wanted furball, why not just to DA?
I don't recall the reasons they gave
:airplane:
Some of us are talking about fights in the main arena.. not duels.
Post by: bustr on September 28, 2017, 02:43:21 PM
It's predominately the fighting block in these forums yelling at Hitech to change the game because the other block is destroying the game with it's win by any available means possible.
Back to how do you change the game when it will require Hitech to force any changes against the "win by any available means" block to make you happy? Simply blaming Hitech for killing the game because you are unhappy, tends to illuminate your solutions will require force of Hitech against part of his customers.
You want to get more people in the air instead of everything else to win. Try treating this like a "game", stop making people suffer through something like flight school to pay their thousands of hard knock death dues. Show them one thing that perceptibly will change their ability to win in the air against average players. Why else are they turning to win by any other means possible? They pay Hitech to feel good about themselves in this entertainment venue. Not be dog food and feel like a looser for the next 18 months.
Post by: scott66 on September 28, 2017, 02:59:57 PM
The number of minutes each box takes off the times needs to be tied to the strats if town buildings are down for over 100 mins then 10 mins per box would be fine if town is only down 30 mins then 3 minutes per box. the way it is right now 2 people in a M3 can stop a 15 man mission in about 7 minutes time. you want to know why people avoid combat and go for undefended bases this right here is why The M3 is way to effective. there is many times we will see bombers IB to a base and up M3s drive them to town and as soon as his bombs impact bring it all up under him. Why up to shoot him down when i can ruin his sortie with an M3.ok I'm a little confused... How does tying the sup boxes to the strats create more combat???? That's just longer people are tied up in gvs bringing the town back up.. Unless it's not about getting people to up from a capped field in aircraft to save their base to be vulched picked and hoed and this m3 complaint is just simply about preventing the base take by gv instead of plane.. And here I thought people were complaining about running sups instead of upping aircraft.. My bad :headscratch: ..... You guys do know that you can take down the vh from the base the M3s are spawning in from right??
Post by: lunatic1 on September 28, 2017, 03:05:10 PM
Post by: Wiley on September 28, 2017, 03:07:18 PM
Troops disabled? Doesn't seem to me to have much to do with resupply.
Wiley.
Post by: Lusche on September 28, 2017, 03:09:22 PM
I know how that goes, the whiners and crybabies usally wins.
If that was true we would have had the "both go down" collision model for years now ;)
Post by: germ on September 28, 2017, 03:09:39 PM
well you whiners and crybabies got part of your wish, today HiTech disabled M3 troop runs--he said it's just a test but I know how that goes, the whiners and crybabies usally wins.
I give it 2 months, then it will be..
1.) The Jeep hordes are impossible to deal with!!
2.) The SdKfz's armor is to thick!
Que whiners.. :furious :old: :joystick:
Post by: scott66 on September 28, 2017, 03:09:49 PM
well you whiners and crybabies got part of your wish, today HiTech disabled M3 troop runs--he said it's just a test but I know how that goes, the whiners and crybabies usally wins.what about that other rarely used gv that can haul troops is it down to? If they thought taking a base was hard with M3s resuping town wait till they have to goon in the troops LMAO
Post by: Lusche on September 28, 2017, 03:12:13 PM
what about that other rarely used gv that can haul troops is it down to?
No, it still works.
Of the 4 ways to get troops to the maproom, only one has been disabled.
But it's interesting to see how many players do not know any of them, and we also had the first complaints about how this is "against us" only... :noid
Post by: germ on September 28, 2017, 03:13:21 PM
"With the right loadouts, two 251s will kill a Vehicle Base's VHs much faster than any other GV can, and capture it to boot."
http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/SdKfz_251
Post by: JimmyC on September 28, 2017, 03:14:16 PM
Post by: scott66 on September 28, 2017, 03:20:09 PM
4?? Ok I feel like a noob oh ya forgot lvt doh!! Jeep,m3,sdk, goon, lvt oh wait that's 5. Well 4 now and counting down fast!! Get em while they're hot boys :aok
No, it still works.
Of the 4 ways to get troops to the maproom, only one has been disabled.
But it's interesting to see how many players do not know any of them, and we also had the first complaints about how this is "against us" only... :noid
Post by: bustr on September 28, 2017, 03:27:27 PM
So it's only troops at this time then? On BowlMA I watch c47 work flawlessly to capture feilds just like back in AH1-2. I forced the c47 to be used again on BowlMA because I didn't put any GV spawns to 9 feilds in each country. Players just man up and get the troops through, and many are taking pride in that job again. How is the SdKfz any less potent at delivering troops than the M3 even if it's top speed is about 10mph slower? Won't it end up with the same stigma as people simply shift to it?
Post by: Lusche on September 28, 2017, 03:29:07 PM
4?? Ok I feel like a noob oh ya forgot lvt doh!! Jeep,m3,sdk, goon, lvt oh wait that's 5. Well 4 now and counting down fast!! Get em while they're hot boys :aok
Well, I didn't really count the Jeep as it would take 5 guys instead of one :)
Post by: Lyme on September 28, 2017, 04:10:29 PM
But at least something is being done, so I <S> that.
Post by: ACE on September 28, 2017, 04:12:19 PM
I think this would have been a better experiment if the German vehicle also had troops disabled. Actually, I think the best experiment would have been leaving the troops alone and supplies being disabled. Did anyone even complain about M3's and troops?I agree the whole point of this thread was supplies not troops.
But at least something is being done, so I <S> that.
Post by: Lusche on September 28, 2017, 04:14:56 PM
I agree the whole point of this thread was supplies not troops.^
Yes. But then, this measure was probably not just caused by this thread.
Post by: ccvi on September 28, 2017, 05:11:32 PM
Well, I didn't really count the Jeep as it would take 5 guys instead of one :)
5?
Post by: Lusche on September 28, 2017, 05:16:43 PM
5?
D'oh. 4, of course. :bhead
Post by: wil3ur on September 28, 2017, 05:32:08 PM
Post by: ACE on September 28, 2017, 05:56:14 PM
^Hey a change to try and make the gameplay not as stale is always for the better!
Yes. But then, this measure was probably not just caused by this thread.
Post by: Dundee on September 28, 2017, 06:35:52 PM
Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name Sortie %
M-3 35.91%
Wirbelwind 18.41%
T-34/85 6.70%
Panzer IV H 13.33%
Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....
M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.
The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.
My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.
This is really going to tick off a lot of people.....I think this had a lot to do with the Rook grabbing 50% of the Bish Bases before the Jokers logged in this morning... keep messing with this game and people are going to walk. I mean the whole object of AH III is to screw with the GV's in this game and it's getting old...
Post by: Dundee on September 28, 2017, 06:38:58 PM
4?? Ok I feel like a noob oh ya forgot lvt doh!! Jeep,m3,sdk, goon, lvt oh wait that's 5. Well 4 now and counting down fast!! Get em while they're hot boys :aok
Well they have disabled M3's ability to carry troops....wtg Junky wtg
Post by: ACE on September 28, 2017, 06:39:48 PM
Another Fur Baller squeaking about something he knows nothing about
I'd bet the farm he knows more than you bud.
Post by: Crash Orange on September 28, 2017, 06:43:07 PM
When Hitech changed the town object later in AH2, the players who had perfected dropping the town and running in the troops wailed for awhile, then learned to deal with the new town object. Hitech still had to tweak the down percentage to make capturing it worth the effort.
What people were complaining about with the new (back then) towns was that you'd have 12 guys flying and driving around trying to find the one building that was still up and preventing the capture - and the only way of knowing was to run troops and watch them not take. Field captures went WAY down for a while and only recovered with the change to the white flag and only a percentage of town needing to be down. Maps were staying up much longer and no one enjoyed that change, so in that instance I think the complaints were very well justified.
I just don't see M3 resups being the problem here. I play late night a fair bit and the dearth of good fights is a problem but I highly doubt taking resup away would change that. People would just bang away in manned ack all night like you already see too much of. I think the real problem in late night is that too many players are afraid to risk their cartoon lives unless they have a large group of friendlies to hide in and those large groups just aren't there late at night. I don't know if there's a game mechanic that could possibly fix that; the only way to change it is to change the mindset of those players.
What's really silly IMO is the idea that resups are ruining the game because if you bring 12 or 15 fighters to a field the 2-3 defenders can resup rather than fighting. 5-1 odds over a capped field isn't a fight, that's just a massacre. The 12-15 guys are just mad that the defenders aren't dumb enough to get vulched on the runway 10 times in a row in a futile attempt to oppose the horde. But why should they?
And I still say the main result of nerfing town resup would be a big increase in base sneaks without combat because no one wants to babysit a Wfluffied town for 2 1/2 hours on the off chance an M3 tries to sneak back in after it's quieted down.
Post by: waystin2 on September 28, 2017, 06:56:07 PM
Post by: Lusche on September 28, 2017, 07:07:34 PM
This is really going to tick off a lot of people.....I think this had a lot to do with the Rook grabbing 50% of the Bish Bases before the Jokers logged in this morning...
You mean HT disabled the M3 troops just to mess with a specific country on this day???
Post by: Dundee on September 28, 2017, 07:15:12 PM
You mean HT disabled the M3 troops just to mess with a specific country on this day???
Well when you seem to use something against the Bish effectively......HTC seem to bow to their needs and change it. People complained about the trees and that was only fix to make it easy for the expected new wave of Steam users.. don't play dumb Lusche you have seen this happen before when we used GV's against the HQ's....they started to tweek stuff to make that less effective...gv Icons and the rest. The real shame is HTC doesn't have the guts to post here why they made such a significant change to the game and what the reason was.....so I guess then that leaves eveyrone to have an opinion as to why the change was made.
Post by: Lusche on September 28, 2017, 07:20:16 PM
Well when you seem to use something against the Bish effectively......HTC seem to bow to their needs and change it.
That's the biggest nonsense I have read on this board in a long time. After almost 20 years and thousands of won and lost wars on all sides, M3's get suddenly nerfed by HiTech because the Bishops lost some terrain one day.
You really should step back from the game for some time to get a healthy dose of reality.
Post by: horble on September 28, 2017, 07:22:48 PM
Post by: molybdenum on September 28, 2017, 07:32:37 PM
What's really silly IMO is the idea that resups are ruining the game because if you bring 12 or 15 fighters to a field the 2-3 defenders can resup rather than fighting. 5-1 odds over a capped field isn't a fight, that's just a massacre. The 12-15 guys are just mad that the defenders aren't dumb enough to get vulched on the runway 10 times in a row in a futile attempt to oppose the horde. But why should they?
SO true. Especially with the attempts to bring in new (naive and mostly very killable) players via Steam who often want only to help and be helped, forcing them to up into a vulch horde time after time will turn them off the game posthaste. What was HT thinking? I'm out if this is the new norm, and I won't look back.
Post by: scott66 on September 28, 2017, 11:34:46 PM
Post by: Lazerr on September 28, 2017, 11:42:22 PM
I'd bet the farm he knows more than you bud.
new supply erA!
Post by: Crash Orange on September 29, 2017, 02:50:09 AM
don't play dumb Lusche you have seen this happen before when we used GV's against the HQ's....
That was very different and you know it. All the HQs being down half the time was ruining game play. One country grabbing a lot of bases in a short time isn't hurting game play, it's normal game play.
Post by: Lusche on September 29, 2017, 04:10:28 AM
One country grabbing a lot of bases in a short time isn't hurting game play, it's normal game play.
Especially as all countries use the m3s without any difference, and the Bishops are winning their share of wars no doubt.
One must be really paranoid to claim this change is about yourself and to protect the Bishops :bhead
Post by: Greebo on September 29, 2017, 05:22:30 AM
The idea is to return town resupply to combat play rather than avoid-combat play. So you'd have attacking players targeting the convoys with planes or GVs and defending players targeting these players. Less players in M3s means more in planes and tanks and more fun for all. It removes some attacking planes from the horde over the base and gives individual defenders some more isolated attackers to go after. The resupply route provides another focus for GV play other than the map room or the spawns. Placing the routes would add another dimension to MA map design too.
Post by: Becinhu on September 29, 2017, 10:10:35 AM
I guess dropping the storch hanger is more important than the vh now on ports and v bases.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Randy1 on September 29, 2017, 12:09:06 PM
Post by: Lusche on September 29, 2017, 12:10:52 PM
Junki got his wish.
He never wished for that.
Post by: Lazerr on September 29, 2017, 12:21:18 PM
Junki got his wish. He ruined the game. I can see him and lazer now floating just off the green runway shooting goons as they take off. Nothing like goon air to air combat.
Ahh poor baby cant run around taking and supplying bases like a little weasle anymore?
You will find youself getting better at all aspects of the game now that you cant sneak around like a snake in the grass.
Oh noo... base defense.. oh my...
Post by: Volron on September 29, 2017, 12:35:58 PM
If anything though, bring in a truck to handle the resupplying part but also bring back the Bot resupply vehicles as well. Give the bot trucks a 30mph limit, add in an AA truck or two as well as a scout car of some sort (Puma anyone? :D) so they are not completely defenseless against planes and GV's, give them a longer drive time to base (maybe start 5 miles outside of dar ring?), that may be interesting. :)
Post by: 1ijac on September 29, 2017, 01:34:07 PM
Ahh poor baby cant run around taking and supplying bases like a little weasle anymore?
You will find youself getting better at all aspects of the game now that you cant sneak around like a snake in the grass.
Oh noo... base defense.. oh my...
I sort of take offense to the "sneak around like a snake in the grass" comment Lazer. I take the time to resupply in an M3 and I'm not a slithering snake. I would prefer to be doing something different, but I may have a stealth enemy CV pounding away on my town to as you put it "sneaking around like a snake in the grass" to white flag my town then launch a surprise effort off the carrier to suppress the upping defenders. There may be those who enjoy resupplying all the time, but most would be happier doing something else. I like greebo's suggestion of multiple convoys and more frequent visits to towns and bases though. The truth of the matter is, even with M3 resupply, bases are still taken fairly easily. Base defense and resupply is no different than furballing. They are both part of the game. Some players rarely contribute to resupplying for the benefit of their country, but contribute in air combat for their country. It's all good. I think it's kind of a low blow to ridicule those players who choose to help their country in their own way.
Let's all hold hands now and sing "Coomba Yaa, Coomba Yaa" Get over here Lazer and hold my dam hand!
one-eye :)
Post by: ACE on September 29, 2017, 01:35:04 PM
Junki got his wish. He ruined the game. I can see him and lazer now floating just off the green runway shooting goons as they take off. Nothing like goon air to air combat.
Aw look. Someone can't adapt and over come.
Post by: Lazerr on September 29, 2017, 01:37:01 PM
I sort of take offense to the "sneak around like a snake in the grass" comment Lazer. I take the time to resupply in an M3 and I'm not a slithering snake. I would prefer to be doing something different, but I may have a stealth enemy CV pounding away on my town to as you put it "sneaking around like a snake in the grass" to white flag my town then launch a surprise effort off the carrier to suppress the upping defenders. There may be those who enjoy resupplying all the time, but most would be happier doing something else. I like greebo's suggestion of multiple convoys and more frequent visits to towns and bases though. The truth of the matter is, even with M3 resupply, bases are still taken fairly easily. Base defense and resupply is no different than furballing. They are both part of the game. Some players rarely contribute to resupplying for the benefit of their country, but contribute in air combat for their country. It's all good. I think it's kind of a low blow to ridicule those players who choose to help their country in their own way.
Let's all hold hands now and sing "Coomba Yaa, Coomba Yaa" Get over here Lazer and hold my dam hand!
one-eye :)
:aok :D
Bases will still be rolled.. no doubt. More battles for bases will occur too. I mean no offense by the snake in the grass comment for the record. I dont try to offend anyone in here or the game.
Post by: SlipKnt on September 29, 2017, 01:39:20 PM
I'll be changing my tactics when I come to take your bases away from you all...
Simply shut the base down and CAP the field. Kill all resupply M3s.
My base!!!!!!!!!!
Muahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
:rock
Post by: scott66 on September 29, 2017, 01:41:01 PM
Ahh poor baby cant run around taking and supplying bases like a little weasle anymore?Lazer my friend... Do you really think this forces gvers into the air for defence?? If someone wants to sneak in Grass there are still other vehicles to do with it.. This will only affect the vehicle which will be used.. You are all mistaken on why people choose to run sups instead of upping aircraft.. It's no fun upping from a capped base and upping from a nearby field allows too much space and time to get troops in undetected.. you've seen me up from a capped field 27 times in a row trying to get to town to kill troops.. Having to not engage aircraft because they will just keep you busy so troops can run but just head straight for the town.. It's not the dying I give a crap about it's my fun level I'll do it until I'm no longer having fun then I'll just up a wirb and put as many vulchers in the tower as I can before I lose the base.. Don't confuse not wanting to give away free kills and not wanting to up a plane just cause it's safer just resuping no matter if there is only one enemy fighter..
You will find youself getting better at all aspects of the game now that you cant sneak around like a snake in the grass.
Oh noo... base defense.. oh my...
Post by: Lazerr on September 29, 2017, 01:50:32 PM
What i think doesnt really matter though. :cheers: :D
In my perfect little world they would come from the next closest base and kill me in a plane after a fun fight. :aok
Post by: scott66 on September 29, 2017, 01:53:37 PM
Post by: scott66 on September 29, 2017, 01:55:57 PM
Im fine with guys defending in gvs scotty.. im not fine with guys reversing damage i do in half the time it took me to do it.you know I'm no threat in the air to you bud.. Unless I'm your wingman hehe <S>.... True story
What i think doesnt really matter though. :cheers: :D
In my perfect little world they would come from the next closest base and kill me in a plane after a fun fight. :aok
Post by: Dundee on September 29, 2017, 03:29:44 PM
Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name Sortie %
M-3 35.91%
Wirbelwind 18.41%
T-34/85 6.70%
Panzer IV H 13.33%
Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....
M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.
The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.
My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.
Lets take a look at why they want the M3 gone for taking troop in.....it has a 50 cal gun in it and it kills planes and other M3's re supping a town, plain and simple. the SKD doesn't have that punch and less speed to boot. I'd be good with this swap if HTC would give us a real troop carrier that was used in WW II.....an unarmed Deuce and a half....unarmed, softer than an M3 with the speed of a Jeep....ya I'd go with that. HTC makes the planes as close to real as possible, lets do the same for the GV side of the house, and put a 65mph 2 1/2 ton in the game. As long as we are on the subject of changing things.....the rate of planes able to up off a base should be altered when hangars on the field are taken out.... on a small field all 3 hangars up, no restriction.. 1 of the 3 down short waiting period before another defender is allowed to take off..... 2 of the three the time is extended. If the GV side of the house is always under the microscope, time to start screwing with the furballers too, it's only right
Post by: waystin2 on September 29, 2017, 04:39:22 PM
Post by: Lusche on September 29, 2017, 04:46:06 PM
Can anyone actually quote an official source?
The only official thing I can say is that he considered both disabling troops and resupply by M3 and simply decided to test the troop thing first.
Source: He told us that in game. I was there.
What he expects from the troop thing is a mystery to me, though :noid
Post by: RODBUSTR on September 29, 2017, 04:47:18 PM
Post by: RODBUSTR on September 29, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
Post by: waystin2 on September 29, 2017, 05:00:04 PM
I see mystery as well. Everyone is guessing as to what is the reasoning behind the troops being disabled. No one really knows what the endgame is though.
What he expects from the troop thing is a mystery to me, though :noid
Post by: Wiley on September 29, 2017, 05:08:58 PM
No one really knows what the endgame is though.
Profit?
I already have a ton of underpants... Just need to know step 2.
It certainly seems to play on the persecution complex crowd's fears.
Wiley.
Post by: Dundee on September 29, 2017, 06:36:45 PM
The only official thing I can say is that he considered both disabling troops and resupply by M3 and simply decided to test the troop thing first.
Source: He told us that in game. I was there.
What he expects from the troop thing is a mystery to me, though :noid
As paying customer I think we should be told as well.......
Post by: bozon on September 30, 2017, 11:54:58 AM
Post by: Randy1 on September 30, 2017, 12:09:59 PM
I dont recall the last time I took part in a successful base take that included a C47. I think HT wants to know whether C47 troops are still viable.
Our Squad captures quite a few every tour but the M3 is . . . or was, the mainstay.
Post by: The Fugitive on September 30, 2017, 01:19:38 PM
I dont recall the last time I took part in a successful base take that included a C47. I think HT wants to know whether C47 troops are still viable.
I did two captures with a goon last saturday afternoon. On Crater and it was easier to fly them in for some of the island grabs.
Post by: mustng2 on September 30, 2017, 02:26:24 PM
Post by: bustr on September 30, 2017, 02:44:59 PM
Sit back and watch the experiment unfold. The real upside is Hitech taking the time from his busy programing schedule to check out "if" there is a problem. The SdK works just fine until then.
Post by: Lazerr on September 30, 2017, 02:47:09 PM
Put the troops back in the M3 and leave the M3 resupply alone. Don't fix it, it is not broken.
That is an opinion with ni data to back it. Data is being gathered as we speak. Please resupply as much stuff as you can.
Post by: Ramesis on September 30, 2017, 03:21:58 PM
Post by: mustng2 on October 01, 2017, 09:44:26 AM
That is an opinion with ni data to back it. Data is being gathered as we speak. Please resupply as much stuff as you can.
The data of course is years of game play with no problems other than apparently a perceived problem by a very limited few when occasionally a base take is foiled by a resupply. Hardly a tragic event. The only true data would be some type of HT verified vote that would be sent to each subscriber since many (including myself) don't monitor these things closely. Have they ever done that before, solicited verified subscriber votes on an issue?
Post by: Lazerr on October 01, 2017, 09:57:25 AM
The data of course is years of game play with no problems other than apparently a perceived problem by a very limited few when occasionally a base take is foiled by a resupply. Hardly a tragic event. The only true data would be some type of HT verified vote that would be sent to each subscriber since many (including myself) don't monitor these things closely. Have they ever done that before, solicited verified subscriber votes on an issue?
I dont think they have done a vote like that for anything other than getting feelers for new planes to be added.
I really think limiting some of the crutches used in this game will make it more enjoyable for the group as a hole.. creating more action and hopefully snag some new players.
Keep in mind troops can still be carried via GV with two other methods.
Post by: Dundee on October 01, 2017, 10:23:56 AM
I doubt there is a vote when Hitech gets involved and runs an experiment, the ongoing focus on the subject in the forums probably gave him pause to take a look. As for what is or isn't broken, what we feel has no bearing on the metrics Hitech uses to determine broken. The last time we got to vote on anything, we got the Me410 over the A26, G.55 and Meteor. Since then Hitech went back to surprising us with new things like he did before trying out a community vote for the 410.
Oddly the experiments happen when the Rooks or Knights figure out how to start winning maps....it's the status quo as long as the Bish are rolling maps..........
Sit back and watch the experiment unfold. The real upside is Hitech taking the time from his busy programing schedule to check out "if" there is a problem. The SdK works just fine until then.
Post by: mustng2 on October 01, 2017, 11:40:57 AM
I dont think they have done a vote like that for anything other than getting feelers for new planes to be added.
I really think limiting some of the crutches used in this game will make it more enjoyable for the group as a hole.. creating more action and hopefully snag some new players.
Keep in mind troops can still be carried via GV with two other methods.
By the way, if your goal really is to get more planes in the air, simply make the air base ack indestructible and increase it's accuracy.
Post by: bustr on October 01, 2017, 12:16:59 PM
The M3 was the only choice to pull usage metrics if getting a look at how often the M3 is used to run supplies is the goal. The SdK is filling the troop delivery niche quite nicely. The arguments and anecdotal descriptions by long time veteran players about their game experiences seems to have become compelling. My squad mate Junky can get a bit single minded and unyielding about a subject, he also has no reason to prevaricate and is trusted enough to have been invited for CM training. Lazerr has a very long time in grade with this game, and his observations on the subject are a verification of Junky's. We do not know what kind of private communications by "customers" to HTC visa e-mail and phone calls have taken place. There is how you as a customer can let Hitech know your real concerns.
This experiment is meaningless in terms of any direct impact to game play right now. A player vote won't work because how players play a game is not always how they will vote for changes in the game given a choice. And just like political polls, people will be people. That is how we got the 410 instead of aircraft that would have been used far more often. It's why I don't ask players to tell me what they think would make a great terrain. I spend hours listening and reading the text buffer, and reading these forums to understand how players utilize the terrains in rotation with the available toys.
Last I checked, towns are getting 10 troops delivered by SdK at the same rates previously with the M3 creating the same responses on text and VOX. No one has been slowed down at all other than a heightened awareness to check for M3 and SdK at the spawns. That will fade as everyone gets used to it.
Post by: Lazerr on October 01, 2017, 01:38:25 PM
By the way, if your goal really is to get more planes in the air, simply make the air base ack indestructible and increase it's accuracy.
Just the fact that base takers need to use a slower gv or a more visable option like the goon should get more guys in the air or on the groud defending even more. The threat of a 50mph nearly invisable gv not being there will slow things down a lot.
Post by: mustng2 on October 01, 2017, 01:59:32 PM
Post by: The Fugitive on October 01, 2017, 02:10:24 PM
No, the indestructible and accurate ack would reduce vulching and although nothing is certain in this game, I would give very long odds it would cause more planes to up from a defending base being horded which is what I understand your goal of eliminating resupply is. Any data to the contrary?
I think the final goal is to get players away from the "avoid all contact" game play they are doing and moving it more toward interacting WITH other players.
Post by: Mongoose on October 01, 2017, 02:24:39 PM
The data of course is years of game play with no problems other than apparently a perceived problem by a very limited few when occasionally a base take is foiled by a resupply. Hardly a tragic event.
:aok Very well said, Mustang.
Post by: bustr on October 01, 2017, 02:57:05 PM
Post by: Lazerr on October 01, 2017, 04:11:26 PM
No, the indestructible and accurate ack would reduce vulching and although nothing is certain in this game, I would give very long odds it would cause more planes to up from a defending base being horded which is what I understand your goal of eliminating resupply is. Any data to the contrary?
So you want super auto ack to run to or hide in? Get up and defend the base or lose it. If i beat the snot out of several defenders and you let me get a cap on.. I did better than you. Try again from another base.
You seem to want the easy.. and cheesey form of gaming to take the front seat in the game.
Post by: Crash Orange on October 01, 2017, 04:51:56 PM
So you want super auto ack to run to or hide in?
I think the idea is to have decent ack to get your wheels up in before someone swoops in to kill your completely helpless plane.
Deacking and vulching kills fights WAY more than M3 resupply does. You can't really call it a fight if the victim doesn't get 10 feet off the ground. We may all agree that it is a legitimate game tactic, but then why isn't M3 resup, which at least requires a minimal amount of skill on the vulchers' part to spot and kill the M3s?
Coming back from another base is the answer for running battles or if you don't particularly care about saving the base, but if it's a quick base snatch the attackers will have the base long before you get there.
I think the basic problem here has been identified: players who claim to be all about "teh FIGHT" are mad because they bring 25 friends and deack a field and circle around it trying to be the first of the 26 to vulch each upper, but the game doesn't force anyone to up on the runway and get slaughtered.
Post by: Lazerr on October 01, 2017, 05:14:25 PM
I think the idea is to have decent ack to get your wheels up in before someone swoops in to kill your completely helpless plane.
Deacking and vulching kills fights WAY more than M3 resupply does. You can't really call it a fight if the victim doesn't get 10 feet off the ground. We may all agree that it is a legitimate game tactic, but then why isn't M3 resup, which at least requires a minimal amount of skill on the vulchers' part to spot and kill the M3s?
Coming back from another base is the answer for running battles or if you don't particularly care about saving the base, but if it's a quick base snatch the attackers will have the base long before you get there.
I think the basic problem here has been identified: players who claim to be all about "teh FIGHT" are mad because they bring 25 friends and deack a field and circle around it trying to be the first of the 26 to vulch each upper, but the game doesn't force anyone to up on the runway and get slaughtered.
Defense used to mean jump in a plane or tank and hold attackers off.. not circle in ultra ack guns and run boxes of supplies into a town.
Who wants to pay 14.95 to do the later of those two?
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 01, 2017, 06:52:15 PM
Defense used to mean jump in a plane or tank and hold attackers off.. not circle in ultra ack guns and run boxes of supplies into a town.Ultra ack guns? It takes WAY more skill to kill planes from base guns, than it does to kill M3s from aircraft. If given the choice...I would die running sups before I give easy vulch kills to top pilots(or any wanna be top pilots). Thats just me, I dont care for vulching, dont mind those that do,just not my thing. I live FOR BOMBING GVs,its what I enjoy! I kill more Gvs in most tours than I do aircraft,from planes. Thats just me, some dont mind it but some get down right hatefull about it. We all have opinions, some more vehement about their own over some others. Simply put, its YOUR game. Play it as you want. Hightech is God in this arena,its his opinion that matters. I love it! Problem I have with current game play, All the Hateful PMs and cross chatter on radio buffers. You are a puss, a tard, a noob a cheat ect. THAT KILLS THE GAME as I see it. Of coarse thats just my opinion :cheers:
Who wants to pay 14.95 to do the later of those two?
Post by: Lazerr on October 01, 2017, 07:06:25 PM
Ultra ack guns? It takes WAY more skill to kill planes from base guns, than it does to kill M3s from aircraft. If given the choice...I would die running sups before I give easy vulch kills to top pilots(or any wanna be top pilots). Thats just me, I dont care for vulching, dont mind those that do,just not my thing. I live FOR BOMBING GVs,its what I enjoy! I kill more Gvs in most tours than I do aircraft,from planes. Thats just me, some dont mind it but some get down right hatefull about it. We all have opinions, some more vehement about their own over some others. Simply put, its YOUR game. Play it as you want. Hightech is God in this arena,its his opinion that matters. I love it! Problem I have with current game play, All the Hateful PMs and cross chatter on radio buffers. You are a puss, a tard, a noob a cheat ect. THAT KILLS THE GAME as I see it. Of coarse thats just my opinion :cheers:
My comment about the guns was about making auto ack more lethal and undestroyable. Nothing regarding manned guns. The only issue with manned guns really is the fact there is no score related penalty.. but tbats a whole different topic unrelated to this thread.
If you are getting vulched at a base.. you failed to defend it. Time to come from another base or use a gv to defend the runway or town. What makes people think they should be able to undo damage i did to a town in less than a quarter or the time by running supplies? Seems a little unbalanaced to me.
Your issue with conduct between players is also not related to the topic of this thread.
My comments here are related to m3 and its use, effectivness, and negative unitended impacts on gameplay.
Post by: Oldman731 on October 01, 2017, 08:55:01 PM
you let me get a cap on.. You seem to want the easy.. and cheesey form of gaming
I could not help noting the irony here.
- oldman
Post by: Randy1 on October 01, 2017, 09:01:12 PM
So you want super auto ack to run to or hide in? Get up and defend the base or lose it. If i beat the snot out of several defenders and you let me get a cap on.. I did better than you. Try again from another base.
You seem to want the easy.. and cheesey form of gaming to take the front seat in the game.
What a load of BS lazer and you know it. Vulching a field has done more damage to air combat in one night than an M3 could ever do in a whole tour..
Post by: Lazerr on October 01, 2017, 09:21:08 PM
What a load of BS lazer and you know it. Vulching a field has done more damage to air combat in one night than an M3 could ever do in a whole tour..
How do you think you capture a base that has resistance? Have you ever captured a base with resistance? If i come to a base and WF a town and let the uppers come kill you in a m3, what would that accomplish? Are you trying to say the only proper way to take a base with resistance is to kill every hangar on the field to remove the chance of ruining the game by killing a guy with less energy then i have?
Your argument is starting to confuse me.
What are you going to do when the m3 supplies are disabled or nerfed? Not defend any bases?
What did 800 folks online do during primetime when supplying a base wasnt an option? Fight eachother? Go figure.
Post by: 1ijac on October 01, 2017, 09:34:14 PM
one-eye
Post by: Lazerr on October 01, 2017, 09:44:04 PM
First of all, a town can be white flagged in one pass with lancasters. if the country's city strat has been hit (which is usually the case), those buildings may stay down for 45+ minutes. It would take 4 or more m3 resupplying the town just to get it back from white flag status. I think it is easier to dump and WF a town in one pass than it is to resupply it.
one-eye
With the time it takes to get them to altitude.. voulnerability.. and high visibility to defending aircraft.. i have to disagree with you there. The average player in this game probably isnt going to white flag it in one pass either.
Post by: mustng2 on October 02, 2017, 06:57:13 AM
Post by: Lazerr on October 02, 2017, 09:55:51 AM
I am far from an elite player and I usually wf a town in one pass. Of course it has to be deacked. Does anyone really think eliminating M3 resupply will result in significantly more planes in the air at a deacked and vulched field? I don't and I doubt anybody else does. Although it has negative effects like almost all changes, making the airfield ack indestructible will result in more planes in the air in the face of superior numbers. Does anybody think it won't? I am not advocating for that change because as I have said, I thought things were fine the way they were. But if there is a large push to get more planes in the air at base defense, the indestructible ack is by far your best choice. Obviously if the more planes in the air is a weak excuse for simply making base takes easier, than considering other options to get planes in the air is a useless exercise.
The point is to get people defending in a tank, plane, or even by bombing bases being used to attack it.
Not reversing peoples damage in a nearly invisable m3.
Post by: atlau on October 02, 2017, 10:28:05 AM
Fyi B17s and b25s (when ords down) are my favorite since they give me 3 chances to get airborne :)
Post by: Mister Fork on October 02, 2017, 10:29:48 AM
Agreed. I think we all just need to move on.
I could not help noting the irony here.
- oldman
Post by: lunatic1 on October 02, 2017, 11:27:15 AM
whats next taking away resupplying all together-goon sdk251-lvt.. half the time what beats an overwhelming force is M3 resupply. and it should not be changed.
whats next after m3 resupply is gone, are you going to want to get rid of the tanks? then the fleets then the towns where will the horde stop.
yes I said horde, that's what you all are, a bullying horde trying to make people play your way, lets see here isn't they a rule here against bullying, oh well couldn't find one
i'll bet there are 80 to 90% of the people posting here don't even GV of any kind. and I bet 50 to 70% here have run troops in a m3 or even ran supplies, in a m3.
I have been playing this game for 10 years, until Aug, 25th 2017 i don't think i have heard anybody complaining about M3 resupply.
I ask HiTech to leave M3 resupply as is, lower supply time if you must.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High) i guess people in WWII driving supplies , like people driving for the red ball express, i guess thse people were no contributing to the war effort.
what business is it of yours. you don't gv or run or fly supplies.
i say leave it as is.
Post by: Randy1 on October 02, 2017, 12:48:29 PM
With the time it takes to get them to altitude.. voulnerability.. and high visibility to defending aircraft.. i have to disagree with you there. The average player in this game probably isnt going to white flag it in one pass either.
You are showing your lack of AH knowledge. I can not remember running into you on a base defense albeit I am sure I have just rare.
Now Lunatic, Woody, and the like will hand you your nuts back in a paper bag defending their base.
Post by: lunatic1 on October 02, 2017, 01:53:38 PM
I just hate change, and taking away M3 resupp shouldn't be one of them.. nobody for the past 9 years until this has an uproar about the M3 been so loud.. face it killing the use of the M3 is not going to put more fighter pilots in the air I guaranty it
somewhere back on one of these pages somebody said to attack M3's at the spawn or on the way in to town, and I have noticed some people have been doing that. and it's said that being in a M3 running supps isn't combat, well if a plane is shooting at my jeep or M3 and I'm shooting at him with my .50cal to me that seems like combat. the pilot kills my M3 he gets a few small perks-and if I manage to shoot down the plane I will get perks, so why isn't that combat?
we used to wish foe planes, trains, tanks, ships, now its I want this done to this object or that done to that object. I said it in my last post, all the people who want to end the M3 resupp are us to play this game their way.
I don't want anybody to play this game my way, I want to play it as it already is. and if you say you can't find a fight then you damn sure ain't ain't looking. you need to leave your base and go find it.
Xbrit is a Rook-flies spits, he always flies 1 or 2 sectors to find a fight if nothing is happening at any of his bases, be like him.
I tell you something else if you come in at 15-20k I'm not gonna up so you can vulch or pick me. if you come in at a t decent alt say less than 10 i'll up, if you pick or vulch me then I won't reup.
you people would find more fights if you didn't come in just to pick and vulch. to me that just means you scared of dieing a cartoon death
Post by: Drano on October 02, 2017, 02:13:16 PM
You are showing your lack of AH knowledge. I can not remember running into you on a base defense albeit I am sure I have just rare.That's hilarious! I think you should duel Lazer 10 times so you can show him how it's done! You should fly your P-38 because it's common knowledge he really sucks in it!
Now Lunatic, Woody, and the like will hand you your nuts back in a paper bag defending their base.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Post by: JunkyII on October 02, 2017, 02:30:04 PM
I don't run many supplies, you're right there....but you are completely wrong if you believe I don't do anything with base captures...probably my most flown plane in my entire Aces High career is the FW190F8...and I use it strictly for porking fields.
When I'm on these pork runs, that's when I notice the actual effectiveness of field supply. I'll pork a field of troops and when I'm reupping my next sortie to hit the base that it can resupply...the troops are already back up....tell me, short of flying 2 hours to level the troops training base how am I supposed to beat that without having overwhelming numbers or a very coordinated attack which is hard with random players....
Fact is you can't, and you bring ZERO argument to the discussion by trying to discredit my knowledge of how the game works....
Post by: Lazerr on October 02, 2017, 02:46:35 PM
You are showing your lack of AH knowledge. I can not remember running into you on a base defense albeit I am sure I have just rare.
Now Lunatic, Woody, and the like will hand you your nuts back in a paper bag defending their base.
I had some questions for you in this thread or another.. you choosing not to answer them?
I dont ever see you in the game.. but i defend plenty of bases. That i guess would be your lack of knowledge.
Post by: bustr on October 02, 2017, 04:01:54 PM
When a player drops a field supply at the town or the field, can you give me a list of what that is able to help rebuild? Can you itemize by location to help me understand.
Post by: Lusche on October 02, 2017, 05:26:32 PM
I tried to support a rather low-key base capture attempt. I dropped down to deack the town and saw m3s running and started to record.
Forces shown in film viewer:
Rook (attacker)
1 M4, 1 Panzer
1 Typhoon, 1 Ki-84
1 Lancaster
Knight (defender)
1 Tiger II
1 Hurricane II, 1 La-7
4 M-3
The white flag was undone in a couple of moments. The Rooks did actually pork the barracks on the Knight airfield spawning to the contested base, with a downtime of 66 minutes.
15 minutes later they were up again.
I have no idea if this is representative, so I'm still making no stance on the topic of resupplies.
However, in this specific situation the only way to capture the base would be to bring a massive numerical superiority, so much that the defenders could then actually claim they could never do anything else than run supplies.
Note: This is not about Rooks or Knights or any particular side. You guys know me, I'm not long term affiliated with any side.
Post by: Lusche on October 02, 2017, 05:29:10 PM
Result: Base was gone before the town was resupplied.
Of course, this is anecdotal too.
Post by: Mister Fork on October 02, 2017, 05:33:48 PM
You are showing your lack of AH knowledge. I can not remember running into you on a base defense albeit I am sure I have just rare.I usually remember running into Lazerr AFTER I suddenly appear in the tower or I've gone from FL10 flying normally like anyone will to into a flaming spiral, missing wings, an engine or two, tail blown off, and screaming like a little kid in this flaming mess, only to exit to my chute and realize that I've been lazy with my situation awareness. Again. For the fifth time this week. On a Sunday. Even after staying in a Holiday Inn Express. :furious
Post by: puller on October 02, 2017, 05:57:56 PM
You are showing your lack of AH knowledge. I can not remember running into you on a base defense albeit I am sure I have just rare.
Now Lunatic, Woody, and the like will hand you your nuts back in a paper bag defending their base.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Post by: ccvi on October 02, 2017, 06:45:10 PM
However, in this specific situation the only way to capture the base would be to bring a massive numerical superiority, so much that the defenders could then actually claim they could never do anything else than run supplies.
A massive numerical superiority is needed either way, offense and defense. In both cases m3s can slip through with troops or supplies respectively. Having 5 defenders circle the town on m3-watch for troops is either pretty tedious, or impossible with flying attackers distracting them from the task. Same on the offense, having a hand full of attackers circling to watch for m3s resupplying doesn't work either. Only a massive numerical advantage can effectively prevent a random m3 (or any other GV) from slipping through.
Post by: bustr on October 02, 2017, 07:15:06 PM
Later at night I find players are more willing to move to the next base and spawn back with an M3 and supplies instead of upping something to look at the town, or fight. Earlier in the evening most of them will up something from the field and swamp the town looking for an easy kill while no one brings supplies from the next base to get the AI ack up. I've had bases taken out from under me because everyone wanted to find easy kills and the M3 was already in place. So this becomes a time of evening and or numbers thing how players will respond with an M3 or fight that I've experienced.
It's obvious the M3 getting supplies into a town during a heavy fight will bring up the guns which will catch attackers and eliminate some of the pressure of their attack. So using an M3 as a counter measure to attackers is a learned tactic and valued for it's effectiveness, since getting an M3 to the town is very often successful. And is very effective against a smaller attack group.
If the drop range for supplies to the town is still 1000yds from the map room, M3 don't even have to be on the ring road that goes around the town. In the terrain editor I've set the ring tool to a radius of 1000yds(.57mile) in this screen shot. The same radius effects drops for airfield\port\vBase.
(https://s20.postimg.org/97intu93h/oceania265.jpg)
Why not ask Hitech to test reducing the supply drop radius to half it's current distance like in the screen shot below? Notice how much smaller of an area in the town and on that medium airfield the drop radius is? This would make resupply from a GV or c47 more hazardous while forcing troop delivery to be more exacting in the drop, and eliminating driving a c47 up to the town on the ground. In general it would remove landing a c47 to make the troop release to ports and vBases. I think eliminating supply drops from GV will end up punishing players for using the available tools to win and be perceived as Hitech personally doing that to them. Reducing the drop area will inconvenience those players while having a historic game precedence they will adapt and be very good at working with the new drop area. There will be grousing and vitrol but, not the perception of being punished by Hitech for people pushing an agenda in the forums.
Many of the solutions being presented to solve this situation would end up being perceived as punishment for doing nothing wrong. Junky and Lazerr are selling this as those players are doing something bad to the community and they want them punished by Hitech for playing inside of the rules and limitations of the game. The polarization of player opinions in all of the related arguments is telling to how this is making some players feel they are being publicly demonized for playing the game by the rules. It does not matter if Junky and Lazerr did this with all the good intentions in the universe for the sake of the game. It's come off sounding as they want Hitech to punish players for following the rules along with changing the game just because of those players for personal reasons.
(https://s20.postimg.org/t3j8n4fil/oceania266.jpg)
Post by: lunatic1 on October 02, 2017, 11:30:01 PM
Lunatic,
I don't run many supplies, you're right there....but you are completely wrong if you believe I don't do anything with base captures...probably my most flown plane in my entire Aces High career is the FW190F8...and I use it strictly for porking fields.
When I'm on these pork runs, that's when I notice the actual effectiveness of field supply. I'll pork a field of troops and when I'm reupping my next sortie to hit the base that it can resupply...the troops are already back up....tell me, short of flying 2 hours to level the troops training base how am I supposed to beat that without having overwhelming numbers or a very coordinated attack which is hard with random players....
Fact is you can't, and you bring ZERO argument to the discussion by trying to discredit my knowledge of how the game works....
not trying to discredit anybody to my knowledge. I know you know more about about the game then I do. and maybe something needs to be done to the game but not resupply. in AH2 resupply town and strat was 4 mins per trip. AH3 hitech made it 10 mins per trip.
if they could keep strats at 10 mins per trip I would be ok with 4 mins on town supps. but when strats get they are down for 180 mins at 4 mins per drop will take forever. but since the horde here wants to do away with resupply I'm just going to give up defending resupply. but 1 last statement..
in the game tonight on 200chnl you said something about this game being a flight sim..
Yes it is. but on front page below the flight sim statement it says Engage in LAND, Sea and Air Combat. Land means gv's including M3's Sdkfz-251's lvt's and jeeps and tanks. like I said before I guess tanks are next. so I just give up arguing.
like I said the horde always win.
Post by: Crash Orange on October 03, 2017, 04:17:50 AM
Defense used to mean jump in a plane or tank and hold attackers off.. not circle in ultra ack guns and run boxes of supplies into a town.
Who wants to pay 14.95 to do the later of those two?
You're asking the wrong question.
The question you should be asking is "What effect will the proposed change have on player behavior?"
I submit that the answer is not "It will make combat-shy players get in planes and fight in the air."
Whether they SHOULD be doing that is a very different question from whether they WILL do that. If they are determined not to fight you air-to-air, there's no way you can make them.
What nerfing M3 resup will do, especially late at night (which is what we're talking about here) is make it much easier for a small group of players to WF and deack multiple fields along the front, wait an hour or more for defenders to stop babysitting the map room, and come back and sneak them.
How about this for a change: reduce resupply effects on towns, but if there's no enemy plane or GV within range to flash a base or town all the buildings and guns lose 10% of their downtime per minute - meaning if no enemy ever showed up they'd all pop in 10 minutes regardless of strat damage. That won't hurt opposed attacks at all, because you'll always have some attackers at the scene of an opposed attack, but it will cut down on people sneaking bases unopposed when they deacked and WFd them 2 hours before. It won't even stop most sneaks... just the ones that depend on waiting for the defenders to get bored waiting for attackers who never show up for an hour or more.
Post by: Lusche on October 03, 2017, 08:14:58 AM
A massive numerical superiority is needed either way, offense and defense.
Not necessarily as massive as it was needed there. Without town resupply (in this specific battle) there would have been a fighting chance to beat the defenders. Doe to the vegetation, the m3s had not even been visible from the air most of them time, especially not when fighting. Against those 4 players resupplying, the only chance would have been a massive assault more or less whiteflagging and capturing the base within a few minutes. Any prolonged battle was going to fail.
This morning there was a similar situation, over the same base. The attacker had bombed the town, GVs were rolling, two defenders upped in planes. I tried to deack the town, was jumped by them had to fight but got shot down. Just as I was about to reup to get back to the battle we saw the town downtime was already down to 10 minutes.
The battle was over that very moment.
And that's one of the things I miss, prolonged battles in AH.
But then again, just anecdotal evidence.
Post by: ccvi on October 03, 2017, 12:14:46 PM
Not necessarily as massive as it was needed there. Without town resupply (in this specific battle) there would have been a fighting chance to beat the defenders. Doe to the vegetation, the m3s had not even been visible from the air most of them time, especially not when fighting. Against those 4 players resupplying, the only chance would have been a massive assault more or less whiteflagging and capturing the base within a few minutes. Any prolonged battle was going to fail.
"Fail" is pretty relative. It may seen as a victory from the other point of view. From that other point of view, devastating air superiority is needed to take down incoming m3/troops from the air, in the same way attackers need to take down m3/cargo.
Typically, with a large number of fields and low number of players, there's no prolonged battle anyway. If a field isn't taken after half an hour, attackers move elsewhere, to a place where there's currently no defense. With up to 2 hours of down-time remaining, that leaves a field that needs someone to watch it, even without there being a fight.
Post by: popeye on October 03, 2017, 12:26:02 PM
"Fail" is pretty relative. It may seen as a victory from the other point of view. From that other point of view, devastating air superiority is needed to take down incoming m3/troops from the air, in the same way attackers need to take down m3/cargo.
There is a difference. Defenders can focus on the Map Room to prevent capture, but attackers need to stop resupply anywhere near the town. On some maps there is enough vegetation in the town to hide a defending GV who only needs to have a clear shot at the map room to prevent capture. To prevent resupply the attackers need to cover a wide area, sometimes with multiple spawns.
Post by: JunkyII on October 03, 2017, 01:47:11 PM
not trying to discredit anybody to my knowledge. I know you know more about about the game then I do. and maybe something needs to be done to the game but not resupply. in AH2 resupply town and strat was 4 mins per trip. AH3 hitech made it 10 mins per trip.Wrong I said it was a combat simulator....Town resupply was one of the last things added to AH2 and I fortunately came back to the game in time to notice how bad it made gameplay....a lot of you probably didn't notice as much because you were still active...I came back and it was like a different game because of 1 thing.
if they could keep strats at 10 mins per trip I would be ok with 4 mins on town supps. but when strats get they are down for 180 mins at 4 mins per drop will take forever. but since the horde here wants to do away with resupply I'm just going to give up defending resupply. but 1 last statement..
in the game tonight on 200chnl you said something about this game being a flight sim..
Yes it is. but on front page below the flight sim statement it says Engage in LAND, Sea and Air Combat. Land means gv's including M3's Sdkfz-251's lvt's and jeeps and tanks. like I said before I guess tanks are next. so I just give up arguing.
like I said the horde always win.
Yesterday at A12 we engaged in combat in tanks....knights didn't have the spawn to run supps(even though they did run some with LVTs as the CV was respawning....so what we saw there was a defense of tanks and whirbs streaming to town and fighters upping to engage enemy fighters...limiting the effectiveness or removing Town resupply will do EXACTLY that...make defense have to be a legit one. Resupply is not combat.
Post by: Lazerr on October 03, 2017, 01:53:34 PM
Wrong I said it was a combat simulator....Town resupply was one of the last things added to AH2 and I fortunately came back to the game in time to notice how bad it made gameplay....a lot of you probably didn't notice as much because you were still active...I came back and it was like a different game because of 1 thing.
Yesterday at A12 we engaged in combat in tanks....knights didn't have the spawn to run supps(even though they did run some with LVTs as the CV was respawning....so what we saw there was a defense of tanks and whirbs streaming to town and fighters upping to engage enemy fighters...limiting the effectiveness or removing Town resupply will do EXACTLY that...make defense have to be a legit one. Resupply is not combat.
Yeah i have been involved with both offense and defense in this type of sitation and the fights are great.
I remember back in the good ole days squads i was a part of would do alamo mission.
Take a base way behind enemy lines and defend it as long as we could. Some of the best battles ive been involved with came from these situations.
Post by: JunkyII on October 03, 2017, 05:45:34 PM
Post by: ccvi on October 03, 2017, 05:48:27 PM
Take a base way behind enemy lines and defend it as long as we could.
That's more related to the decrease of the radar altitude (possibly also increase in town size, and maybe increased ack strength) than resupply.
Post by: Lusche on October 03, 2017, 05:52:24 PM
That's more related to the decrease of the radar altitude
This killed off the vast majority of NOE attacks.
Post by: Lusche on October 03, 2017, 06:22:37 PM
Today...a guy spawned an M3 at a field before a bomber even hit a town...tell me I'm wrong when that is the mindset of some players...kudos it is one of the best defenses but it shouldn't be for overall gameplay.^
But 30 minutes later, exactly the same base, the opposite result. I call out WF, many troops had already entered the maproom.
What happens? Three or four guys hop in M3s to beat enemy Jeeps (called them out as well) to the town. Was the only one trying to stop them at that point.
The base changed ownership. ;)
Post by: ccvi on October 03, 2017, 06:27:26 PM
This is where I'm getting confused. Can a town be brought up all with supply deliveries?
Yes, like everything else (except those fixed to 15 minutes - everything mannable or needed to spawn).
If the drop range for supplies to the town is still 1000yds from the map room, M3 don't even have to be on the ring road that goes around the town. In the terrain editor I've set the ring tool to a radius of 1000yds(.57mile) in this screen shot. The same radius effects drops for airfield\port\vBase.
I have no idea what the ranges may have been, as resupply wasn't that much a useful tool as it is now. Today at least the supply-range seems to be determined individually for each building (dropping from the right distance can resupply part of the town), and that distance slightly exceeds the range of the 251 rockets at 23 degrees (some 1000 yards). In contrast to that, there's a loading/login/startup hint, which says something like "did you know supplies can be dropped half a mile from the target" (or similar).
Post by: ccvi on October 03, 2017, 06:28:59 PM
This killed off the vast majority of NOE attacks.
Did base-takes behind enemy lines ever happen regularly non-NOE?
Post by: Lusche on October 03, 2017, 06:34:38 PM
Did base-takes behind enemy lines ever happen regularly non-NOE?
Hmmm difficult question :headscratch:
I'm sure they happened (ususally everything that can been done has been done), but I don't think I remember many of that sort...
Post by: bustr on October 03, 2017, 07:21:55 PM
When one or two players can dictate outcomes against superior numbers at will with very little risk or effort, that is a problem in our open world style of game play. The new clutter and terrain turns M3's into ghosts which almost gives them the ability to call up a cloaking device if the player has become experienced with the new clutter and GV icon view ability conditions. So yes, this new found advantage due to no one ever testing AH3 for these kinds of issues is loved by the single finger salute few who don't want their advantage and single finger control over the many modified or taken away.
Every time Hitech has made a change to address something like this, the forums erupted like planet earth was being invaded and scorched.
Any of you who have been here since ENY was introduced should be able to write the same list of things that came and went visa Hitech making a change that caused the forums to erupt. Almost all of them were unintended consequences no one had seen in some process that ended up being leverage in an unbalancing manner to game play.
Post by: scott66 on October 03, 2017, 09:23:47 PM
Post by: JunkyII on October 03, 2017, 09:54:20 PM
Bottom line... You will never be able to force someone into playing the way you want them to.. No matter what you add or take way from the hanger... There will never be 100% of the players completely happy with the game... Ever... Because there is one unchangeable variable.. Other playersLiterally just had a discussion in the MA and I got to clarify some stuff.
1. I might be alright with getting rid of town resupply all together, but I know others like the more strategic side of the game....so all I'm asking for is a nerf...drop the time down so whirbs and fighters become the more viable option for defense.
2. Hitech never gave me any data that he didn't give everyone else...the OP is a copy and paste from another thread(yes someone believes Hitech and I are in some conspiracy with removing troops from M3s)
3. Every time I discuss this people say something like you only do fighters ect ect ect when the fact is I do all of it depending on what the enemy is doing....thats how I base my gameplay. The have fighter superiority...I up a fighter...They have tanks hitting town...I roll a tank ect ect ect...im here for the FIGHT....a combat simulator shouldn't have ways to avoid combat.
Post by: scott66 on October 03, 2017, 10:48:48 PM
Literally just had a discussion in the MA and I got to clarify some stuff.I'll be logged in.. In two hours I'll fight ya!! Lol I'll let you super Ace fighter jocks in on a little secret . Some of you are a victim of your own success.. Some times on range I'll hear stuff like"don't bother upping it's 38maw and Lazer winging up there.. Or watch yourself that's AKAK in that 38 " and some people knowing the outcome won't even bother upping off the field now personally I'm not smart enough to hang out in the hanger I will however jumping in 88mm 38maw keeps saving Lazers hind and lol
1. I might be alright with getting rid of town resupply all together, but I know others like the more strategic side of the game....so all I'm asking for is a nerf...drop the time down so whirbs and fighters become the more viable option for defense.
2. Hitech never gave me any data that he didn't give everyone else...the OP is a copy and paste from another thread(yes someone believes Hitech and I are in some conspiracy with removing troops from M3s)
3. Every time I discuss this people say something like you only do fighters ect ect ect when the fact is I do all of it depending on what the enemy is doing....thats how I base my gameplay. The have fighter superiority...I up a fighter...They have tanks hitting town...I roll a tank ect ect ect...im here for the FIGHT....a combat simulator shouldn't have ways to avoid combat.
Post by: JunkyII on October 04, 2017, 12:06:48 AM
I'll be logged in.. In two hours I'll fight ya!! Lol I'll let you super Ace fighter jocks in on a little secret . Some of you are a victim of your own success.. Some times on range I'll hear stuff like"don't bother upping it's 38maw and Lazer winging up there.. Or watch yourself that's AKAK in that 38 " and some people knowing the outcome won't even bother upping off the field now personally I'm not smart enough to hang out in the hanger I will however jumping in 88mm 38maw keeps saving Lazers hind and lolUnderstandable and I also think such players should do their part to make the game enjoyable for others as well....which is why I give people crap about flying certain rides....everyone thinks Im a bully but I'm just looking out for the little guy.
When someone flies an F4U1A above the rest of the planes in the MA, 90% of the time with E advantage and numbers advantage....they aren't doing their part for the community...and I'll gladly give them crap about it.
Post by: scott66 on October 04, 2017, 12:53:24 AM
Understandable and I also think such players should do their part to make the game enjoyable for others as well....which is why I give people crap about flying certain rides....everyone thinks Im a bully but I'm just looking out for the little guy.actually I agree with you junky
When someone flies an F4U1A above the rest of the planes in the MA, 90% of the time with E advantage and numbers advantage....they aren't doing their part for the community...and I'll gladly give them crap about it.
Post by: Becinhu on October 04, 2017, 09:58:19 AM
Understandable and I also think such players should do their part to make the game enjoyable for others as well....which is why I give people crap about flying certain rides....everyone thinks Im a bully but I'm just looking out for the little guy.
When someone flies an F4U1A above the rest of the planes in the MA, 90% of the time with E advantage and numbers advantage....they aren't doing their part for the community...and I'll gladly give them crap about it.
Are you saying that a 12 eny f4u-1a unbalances the fights in the MA? I would think the mass of LA7s, 190ds, yak3s, and spit16s would be more of an issue.
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Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2017, 09:59:42 AM
Are you saying that a 12 eny f4u-1a unbalances the fights in the MA?
He didn't say that at all. :old:
Post by: Becinhu on October 04, 2017, 10:50:04 AM
He didn't say that at all. :old:
I wouldn't figure junky would, that comment just seemed to be blaming the 1A for a lot of perceived problems.
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Post by: Electroman on October 04, 2017, 11:19:59 AM
Post by: ACE on October 04, 2017, 11:28:21 AM
Well now that we've beaten this one to death and made one of the most ridiculous changes in the game which has served almost no purpose...we might as well all jump back on the ENY is killing the game train now and badger that one to death...because you know...the horde mentality always wins....ENY is fine. The way you can hide in a m3 and not promote any form of combat is lame.
Post by: Wiley on October 04, 2017, 11:35:14 AM
Well now that we've beaten this one to death and made one of the most ridiculous changes in the game which has served almost no purpose...we might as well all jump back on the ENY is killing the game train now and badger that one to death...because you know...the horde mentality always wins....
What horde mentality? The guys who've been griping about the M3s are vocal, but there aren't very many of them.
Wiley.
Post by: Electroman on October 04, 2017, 11:47:37 AM
ENY is fine. The way you can hide in a m3 and not promote any form of combat is lame.
If ya want air combat go to the Dueling Arena. Not everyone wants to be a fighter jock ya know.
Post by: Lazerr on October 04, 2017, 11:51:41 AM
If ya want air combat go to the Dueling Arena. Not everyone wants to be a fighter jock ya know.
Notice how he said combat... not fighter combat. Combat could be tanking.. anti air vehicles.. bombers.. cv groups.. the list goes on. Quit trying to make it something it isnt. I pushed this agenda harder than anyone and I play all rolls of the game and have since day 1.
Post by: Electroman on October 04, 2017, 11:53:58 AM
Notice how he said combat... not fighter combat. Combat could be tanking.. anti air vehicles.. bombers.. cv groups.. the list goes on. Quit trying to make it something it isnt. I pushed this agenda harder than anyone and I play all rolls of the game and have since day 1.
As do I Lazer...but most of the time this is what people are referring to.
Removing the troops in an M3 has ZERO EFFECT on improving combat.
Post by: Wiley on October 04, 2017, 12:01:00 PM
Removing the troops in an M3 has ZERO EFFECT on improving combat.
What has given you the impression that was the point of the change?
Wiley.
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2017, 12:01:43 PM
Removing the troops in an M3 has ZERO EFFECT on improving combat.
And I'm sure that wasn't the plan either ;)
Post by: bustr on October 04, 2017, 12:06:24 PM
Last night I saw what Junky is getting at during a large scale bomber run over an airfield. As the bombers were obviously lined up for their bomb run, our M3's were already approaching the base from the spawn. We still had a battle for the town with SdK's upping like locusts. But, in the end the real battle was the M3's versus the Sdk's, and who could get their load to the town faster. The battle no longer mattered at the moment the M3's rebuilt the town faster than the SdK's could sacrifice themselves to deliver their troops. The whole fight could have taken place by the bombers flattening the town, then the M3's and SdK's do their delivery race to the town from there.
This walks the same fine line as giving a bomber player the ability to dictate a whole country's evening by a single finger salute to a single target which has been championed for years by a group of players. Yes we have players who only drive GV's or only want to sit in a GV and take part in the game from that perspective. So it is intoxicating to realize with a single finger they can impact all the efforts of a large group of combatants with very little personal risk to achieve that much against so many. It used to be delivering the troops or fighting off the attackers and spoiling that troop delivery was the reward for everyone. Now spoiling all of that by rebuilding the town by a single finger salute has diluted a clear purpose for winning in this game. The more you dilute the meaning of winning without clear objectives and outcomes, the less the majority of players feel anything strongly about engaging in the risk of combat to achieve something.
This is what Junky is really trying to help us understand. It does not promote a positive future for the kind of combat game Aces High has been since I can remember. It feels ambivalent and like participation trophy's are being passed out for showing up and risking nothing.
Post by: ACE on October 04, 2017, 01:04:29 PM
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2017, 01:07:49 PM
Am I the only one who reads Bustrs post like he's the commentator of aces high?
You might be the only one who still reads them at all :noid
Post by: Electroman on October 04, 2017, 01:11:13 PM
Hit the strats - increase the downtime - it's more effective and more of a deterrent and harder for the resuppers to easily bring up a base.
Plan ahead - have troops in place long before the main wave comes in.
There are multiple ways to combat the resupply challenge but people just want it easy so they can capture a base on the first try. I know all to well as the amount of frustration I've had in this regard when resuppers spoil a plan for a small group...but we deal with it accordingly.
Post by: Lazerr on October 04, 2017, 01:19:35 PM
It also all goes back to the larger picture though. We have fewer people planning effective missions which cover both air & ground. Want to stop the resuppers? Get tanks involved to take care of spawn points or distance entry points to town. Or use some aircap to watch for resup runners on the ground.
Hit the strats - increase the downtime - it's more effective and more of a deterrent and harder for the resuppers to easily bring up a base.
Plan ahead - have troops in place long before the main wave comes in.
There are multiple ways to combat the resupply challenge but people just want it easy so they can capture a base on the first try. I know all to well as the amount of frustration I've had in this regard when resuppers spoil a plan for a small group...but we deal with it accordingly.
This requires more folks to work as a group.. aka a hoarde. The defense sees said hoarde coming.. does not try to defend at all, rather sit around towns with supplies over and over.
See the revolving door? If you really think we will attract new folks with that method of gameplay.. think harder.
Get better at defending your base without supplies being your go to choice. I have a feeling that day is coming soon.
Post by: ACE on October 04, 2017, 01:52:24 PM
You might be the only one who still reads them at all :noidWell mr snail I didn't wanna be rude.
Post by: bustr on October 04, 2017, 02:16:51 PM
You might be the only one who still reads them at all :noid
That's OK, I never got a twitter account or lived in my text buffer and self lobotomized like the last 2 generations.
Last night's bomber raid had about 6 bomber boxes and 20 or so fighters involved. It was a magnificent bait and switch mission. The bombers dropped the town on their pass then flew a lazy circle while descending to another field which drew off most of our fighter defense for the easy kills. Then several tanks and a hoard of SdK's showed up just as a fighter sweep engaged our remaining defenders low over the town. We kept shooting SdK's and hoards of troops and they kept sending SdK's to swamp our ability to catch all of them. It should have worked except our M3's were never challenged so all the SdK's they kept sending eventually were making the 3 mile run for nothing. The M3's risked nothing and screwed almost 30 guys out of a well planned and executed mission. What becomes the point of resurrecting well planned missions if a single finger salute is all it takes to screw all of that effort instead of a spirited defense? Any hole in the game play like this is found and leveraged to the hilt because it's not against the rules, and this one gives a single guy playing energizer bunny in an M3 control over the risk and efforts of nearly 30 guys. Just like the HQ being kept down all the time that Hitech changed it's down time and hardness to address.
It's a similar species to allowing a single player to single finger salute control the evening's outcomes of a whole country. Without an equal effort and risk commiserate to that many players inflicting that on another country in the same short period of time.
Post by: popeye on October 04, 2017, 02:34:06 PM
Post by: Wiley on October 04, 2017, 02:49:43 PM
Am I the only one who reads Bustrs post like he's the commentator of aces high? I imagine him with a Morgan freeman voice or Mr Bruce buffer himself. Ittsssssss Timeeeeeeee
I always hear Cliff Claven.
Wiley.
Post by: Randy1 on October 04, 2017, 02:53:34 PM
Six bomber boxes and 20 fighters and no one bothered to kill the VH or barracks at the adjacent field to prevent resupply?
Kong remembers the good missions ET put together. Just a little vox work by ET and planes cut across AH map killing the resupply bases.
I miss ET. Well and the many others that have gone from this world in the last couple of years.
Post by: bustr on October 04, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
The real answer is we are imperfect in our game play because by design the game is not over complicated on purpose, and most of use are here to be in fights for an evening. Not playing a military strategy game controlled by minutia manipulated by a few. Any hole in the game where a minutia can be leveraged outside of its original role against larger groups of players, becomes a single finger salute by the few to screw the efforts of the many.
Nugetx expended a lot of time and personal good will trying to force Hitech into believing the game should be turned into a military strategy game controlled by minutia manipulated by a few.
Post by: Zoney on October 04, 2017, 03:15:20 PM
I always hear Cliff Claven.
Wiley.
LOL, with a lisp.
Post by: bustr on October 04, 2017, 04:09:00 PM
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 04, 2017, 04:41:26 PM
Last I heard John Ratzenberger is a millionaire philanthropist, thank you for the compliment.:rofl Why you in here posting comments? :headscratch: Get that new terrain ready :neener: Kidding of coarse...well maybe :cheers:
Post by: bustr on October 04, 2017, 05:04:54 PM
Each country has 6 task groups running loose on this terrain with many channels to aid getting at enemy feilds faster.
Post by: Mister Fork on October 04, 2017, 05:34:47 PM
Building terrains makes your brains dribble out yur ears and I don't want to drink or beat my head against the wall. But that becomes a catch-22 with all the misunderstandings taken as fact about terrains here in the forums. Meh, I'm still fitting shore batteries into places so you guys can't drop rounds on each other's shore batteries or runway spawn points. Plop down a shore battery with your best guess. Run a build, exit the editor and fire up AH3 offline. Hop in the shore batter, pull up the map, Shift_Q, then test max range against the max barrel swing in both directions. Exit out, open the editor and rotate the shore battery a smidgen. Run a build, exit out, open AH3 and repeat Shift_Q. A few more of these and you move onto the next field to repeat it all over again on up to three shore battery....... :bhead
Each country has 6 task groups running loose on this terrain with many channels to aid getting at enemy fields faster.
I just read that with John Ratzenberger's voice. MUCH better and I get your frustration.
Post by: ACE on October 04, 2017, 07:11:37 PM
Post by: MrGeezer on October 05, 2017, 03:13:41 AM
Cave in to the whiners.
Sad.
Post by: Delirium on October 05, 2017, 08:52:32 AM
The real answer is we are imperfect in our game play because by design the game is not over complicated on purpose
The imperfection is directly related to man's quest to seek the easiest/shortest path that accomplishes the task at hand. Good folks tend to avoid the easy path if they can recognize the negative impact it plays. If you need an example, look at event registration and you can see the good people voluntarily taking "weaker" rides to balance the event out.
Unfortunately, you can't design fair play as there will always be unforeseen shortcuts due in part to human ingenuity.
Post by: TheBug on October 05, 2017, 09:46:08 AM
Cave in to the whiners.
Sad.
Who was whining about troops in the M3? Or are you just being dramatic?
Post by: Lusche on October 05, 2017, 09:52:46 AM
Who was whining about troops in the M3? Or are you just being dramatic?
I'm afraid they all just are.
In the beginning I was just thinking I might have been missing the point, which can easily happen in such a complex game.
ut none of them ever replied to my direct questions, neither in game nor in the various treads, what exactly they can't do anymore, so that they "have given up on base capturing" or are going to leave. All just exclamations and lamentations, no real arguments or points given, no questions answered.
My own problem is, that stuff like this genuinely irritates me :noid
Post by: horble on October 05, 2017, 01:24:02 PM
Post by: MWL on October 05, 2017, 02:29:45 PM
Post by: caldera on October 05, 2017, 03:59:01 PM
In the strategy of any business, NEVER, NEVER, take something away.
Cave in to the whiners.
Sad.
You're whining right now. If the M-3 gets troops restored, HTC would be caving to the whiners - right?
Post by: serun on October 05, 2017, 04:37:38 PM
Quote
You're whining right now. If the M-3 gets troops restored, HTC would be caving to the whiners - right?
Hmm. Cold brutal logic. I like it! :aok
Post by: JunkyII on October 06, 2017, 10:08:14 AM
I'm afraid they all just are.What questions haven't I answered about why it ruins gameplay? Since I was legit the first person to bring this up here on the furoms, ask me how it's effected me...
In the beginning I was just thinking I might have been missing the point, which can easily happen in such a complex game.
ut none of them ever replied to my direct questions, neither in game nor in the various treads, what exactly they can't do anymore, so that they "have given up on base capturing" or are going to leave. All just exclamations and lamentations, no real arguments or points given, no questions answered.
My own problem is, that stuff like this genuinely irritates me :noid
I still kill troops so they can't resupply....they resupply them up and then resupply town...all the while all I see is M3s running to town and maybe a single upper.
The difference in the FIGHT prior to this being added was in those situations where town was getting knocked down you had an Alamo situation where a country would respond with a stream of whirbs,tanks, LAs ect ect ect to hold a field....those fights are fun being on either side....upping an LA today in that fight while 4 people run supps is annoying....you have zero help but the base doesn't get taken...so like Del said it's the path of least resistance...doesnt encourage combat it takes away.
Post by: Lusche on October 06, 2017, 10:10:19 AM
What questions haven't I answered about why it ruins gameplay?.
You?
Did you complain about troops being temporarily disabled for the m3?
Look at the context of my post ;)
Post by: Arlo on October 06, 2017, 10:17:20 AM
Post by: Becinhu on October 06, 2017, 11:27:53 AM
(https://amcmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/C-47-World-War-II-Transport-and-Troop-Carrier.png)
Why do you have a picture of a commercial airliner???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Arlo on October 06, 2017, 12:23:09 PM
Why do you have a picture of a commercial airliner???
It was time for a commercial.
Post by: JunkyII on October 06, 2017, 03:25:44 PM
You?Looking back it still looks like you were talking about both sides.
Did you complain about troops being temporarily disabled for the m3?
Look at the context of my post ;)
Post by: Lusche on October 06, 2017, 03:33:59 PM
In the strategy of any business, NEVER, NEVER, take something away.
Cave in to the whiners.
Sad.
Who was whining about troops in the M3? Or are you just being dramatic?[/b]
I'm afraid they all just are.
In the beginning I was just thinking I might have been missing the point, which can easily happen in such a complex game.
But none of them ever replied to my direct questions, neither in game nor in the various treads, what exactly they can't do anymore, so that they "have given up on base capturing" or are going to leave. All just exclamations and lamentations, no real arguments or points given, no questions answered.
Should be pretty obvious it's only about the troops in the M3, and the people complaining about this test :)
Post by: JunkyII on October 06, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
For you, Junky:I'm afraid they all just are....keyword all which makes the rest read like all in the discussion which would include both sides...
Should be pretty obvious it's only about the troops in the M3, and the people complaining about this test :)
Post by: Lusche on October 06, 2017, 03:41:55 PM
I'm afraid they all just are....keyword all which makes the rest read like all in the discussion which would include both sides...
No, all those who complain about the troops. Read the context of the discussion in the quotes. It was about the troops thing exclusively.
It's not always about YOU :neener:
Post by: JunkyII on October 06, 2017, 05:44:28 PM
No, all those who complain about the troops. Read the context of the discussion in the quotes. It was about the troops thing exclusively.I'm not saying it's about me but the word all in there does make it read like you are talking about everyone...so I'm correcting you for correcting me
It's not always about YOU :neener:
Post by: molybdenum on October 06, 2017, 07:32:32 PM
That's OK, I never got a twitter account or lived in my text buffer and self lobotomized like the last 2 generations.
It should have worked except our M3's were never challenged so all the SdK's they kept sending eventually were making the 3 mile run for nothing. The M3's risked nothing and screwed almost 30 guys out of a well planned and executed mission. What becomes the point of resurrecting well planned missions if a single finger salute is all it takes to screw all of that effort instead of a spirited defense? Any hole in the game play like this is found and leveraged to the hilt because it's not against the rules, and this one gives a single guy playing energizer bunny in an M3 control over the risk and efforts of nearly 30 guys. Just like the HQ being kept down all the time that Hitech changed it's down time and hardness to address.
It's a similar species to allowing a single player to single finger salute control the evening's outcomes of a whole country. Without an equal effort and risk commiserate to that many players inflicting that on another country in the same short period of time.
"One single guy?" Seriously? You're saying one guy with an m3 resupping was able to thwart the effort of "nearly 30" (yeah, right) guys?
It is NOT a "single finger salute" to resup (or to hit strats)." M3s are very easily killed, as is the VH they spawn from. Put one of these "nearly 30" guys on m3 patrol and another one on VH duty and this problem you imagine will go away. It was not a "well planned and executed" mission if the inevitable m3 resup issue was not addressed. Instead, apparently, everyone wanted to do the fun destructive work of leveling town and quashing uppers instead of doing the basic, less exciting support work that would have made the mission succeed. And now you kinda talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say the mission was well planned but blame the people who saw and exploited the flaw in the plan.
Trying to make other people play they way you want them to, even if successful, leads to dissatisfaction amongst the people so forced. How is this beneficial to the AH community as a whole?
And as a side note (as I have said before), thanks for building maps for the community. We need more of them. But your latest creation (Bowl) is my least favorite precisely for the issue you're currently unhappy about: it almost demands players to resup vs fight. Less than 4 minutes to run an m3 to resup the strat that it took a guy the better part of an hour to reach? Towns and guns down less time because the strat that's affected by them is usually up? Resup (of both strat and individual targets) is the smart thing to do, but also the boring thing. But people who care about the big picture will do the boring thing to help the team.
Post by: bustr on October 10, 2017, 01:42:22 PM
Post by: Lazerr on October 10, 2017, 01:53:51 PM
"One single guy?" Seriously? You're saying one guy with an m3 resupping was able to thwart the effort of "nearly 30" (yeah, right) guys?
It is NOT a "single finger salute" to resup (or to hit strats)." M3s are very easily killed, as is the VH they spawn from. Put one of these "nearly 30" guys on m3 patrol and another one on VH duty and this problem you imagine will go away. It was not a "well planned and executed" mission if the inevitable m3 resup issue was not addressed. Instead, apparently, everyone wanted to do the fun destructive work of leveling town and quashing uppers instead of doing the basic, less exciting support work that would have made the mission succeed. And now you kinda talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say the mission was well planned but blame the people who saw and exploited the flaw in the plan.
Trying to make other people play they way you want them to, even if successful, leads to dissatisfaction amongst the people so forced. How is this beneficial to the AH community as a whole?
And as a side note (as I have said before), thanks for building maps for the community. We need more of them. But your latest creation (Bowl) is my least favorite precisely for the issue you're currently unhappy about: it almost demands players to resup vs fight. Less than 4 minutes to run an m3 to resup the strat that it took a guy the better part of an hour to reach? Towns and guns down less time because the strat that's affected by them is usually up? Resup (of both strat and individual targets) is the smart thing to do, but also the boring thing. But people who care about the big picture will do the boring thing to help the team.
You leave out variables such as multiple spawns in.. amount of ground defense.. aerial defense.
Also fyi.. there is typically multiple m3s working a resup. It takes them under 5 minutes to drop a box and reup.
Maybe I should get an air spawn over their spawn? :D
Nobody has a hard time killing m3's.. but the effectivness and its impact on base defense is silly.
Post by: bustr on October 10, 2017, 02:15:13 PM
The spawn distance was a trade off to get Gvers to feel good about getting into combat versus bushwhacking for ever to get ambushed or bombed which would have added only a few minutes to the M3's transit time. I stop watched tanks and M3s, and erred on the side of trying to help tankers want to get into a fight at 7 minutes from spawn to town flag pole. 7 minutes was all I had any patience for personally. So by accident it show cases the out of proportion role the M3 has in the game to dictate outcomes of base assaults.
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 10, 2017, 02:41:05 PM
Post by: SPKmes on October 10, 2017, 03:47:50 PM
I do think resup is a little too powerful.... not 100% on this but the resup power is the same whether the base is at 30mins or 90mins down (strat full up or partially down) ? ... I do feel that it should be based on percentages as there is a set amount it comes up when strat is 100%... this time (going by how it is now could be dropped) and from there as the strat goes down the amount a box fixes is increased till you get to a maximum time. At 30mins...you can really get a town up fast which is possibly the bugbear when it comes to this part of the game... when strats are down you need an army of M3's to bring it up....which if you have town down shouldn't be able to stop a take unless the group is really unorganised...like a certain chess piece that won't be mentioned here, that floats around like a dropped stitch in grandmas Knitting. hahaha
Post by: Dundee on October 14, 2017, 11:15:11 AM
For me I like to defend...sometime though I am the only one who likes to defend.... not much you can do when you have a capped field and the scare factor of letting one guy get wheels up to face 5,6,7,8 fighters plus any GV's wirbs,tanks that are already in town and defend the base causes a vulch fest....bring out a wirb you say....same deal....even if there are a couple of you upping, two planes working together can neuter a wirb with ease....get a GV there...well by the time you get that underway there is three M3's releasing troops...so what happens... ah well... have it is the answer...we will do the same thing to your team over there....So I will try resup....just to give me more time to cry on channel for help (even this has got harder...Damn trees...I envy you touch typists during these times) or break the hearts of the attackers....The fact that I can even get close when there are so many red guys amazes me sometimes.....
I do think resup is a little too powerful.... not 100% on this but the resup power is the same whether the base is at 30mins or 90mins down (strat full up or partially down) ? ... I do feel that it should be based on percentages as there is a set amount it comes up when strat is 100%... this time (going by how it is now could be dropped) and from there as the strat goes down the amount a box fixes is increased till you get to a maximum time. At 30mins...you can really get a town up fast which is possibly the bugbear when it comes to this part of the game... when strats are down you need an army of M3's to bring it up....which if you have town down shouldn't be able to stop a take unless the group is really unorganised...like a certain chess piece that won't be mentioned here, that floats around like a dropped stitch in grandmas Knitting. hahaha
I might remind you that the resup time when AH3 was launched was 30 min........which meant 6 resup's would have brought up a strat to 100%....almost before the bombers got out of the sector. There were complaints about the resup time so it was changed to 10 min. which it is what it is now.....why have we not gone to what it was in AH 2 the resup was set at 4 min. a drop........and if this M3 business was all about re supping why were the troops taken away and not the Cargo option..........?
Post by: Lusche on October 14, 2017, 11:25:49 AM
.and if this M3 business was all about re supping why were the troops taken away and not the Cargo option..........?
Because it's not a permament measure, but about gathering data about the M3's usage for resupply.
Post by: Dundee on October 20, 2017, 07:57:23 PM
Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name Sortie %
M-3 35.91%
Wirbelwind 18.41%
T-34/85 6.70%
Panzer IV H 13.33%
Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....
M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.
While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)
What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.
The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.
My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.
OK when are we going to get troops back in the M3...after all the Meta Data collection....the GV'er want to know. one guy shines and they have to change the game
Post by: Lusche on October 20, 2017, 07:58:41 PM
one guy shines and they have to change the game
And who would that 'one guy' be?
Post by: Lazerr on October 21, 2017, 02:36:53 AM
Post by: BuckShot on October 21, 2017, 08:30:49 AM
Combat, not cargo convoys.
Post by: Lusche on October 21, 2017, 08:59:30 AM
I hope the result of this test is no more object resupply.
I hope there no such drastic measure, it would be wrong all the way.
Post by: Randy1 on October 23, 2017, 07:40:49 AM
Last night we tried to capture a knit base. The resupply effort stopped us cold. The knits did exactly what they needed to do to save the base. :salute
Post by: JOACH1M on October 23, 2017, 07:49:45 AM
Most of the m3 complaints come from players that do not try to capture or defend bases. Go figure?Yeah.... by avoiding combat of any sorts. :rolleyes:
Last night we tried to capture a knit base. The resupply effort stopped us cold. The knits did exactly what they needed to do to save the base. :salute
Post by: Randy1 on October 23, 2017, 10:26:15 AM
Yeah.... by avoiding combat of any sorts. :rolleyes:
And . . . I rest my case. :rofl
Post by: Devil 505 on October 23, 2017, 10:38:44 AM
Post by: Lazerr on October 23, 2017, 10:52:42 AM
Laugh it up Randy. Your gameplay style is a joke. A very bad joke.
Yeah his logic is even worse.
Post by: Randy1 on October 23, 2017, 12:42:40 PM
Laugh it up Randy. Your gameplay style is a joke. A very bad joke.
Yeah his logic is even worse.
I was looking through the top 50 Ranking list for this tour. Do y'all use a different name in the game?
Post by: wil3ur on October 23, 2017, 01:11:51 PM
I was looking through the top 50 Ranking list for this tour. Do y'all use a different name in the game?
I guarantee both of those guys could most likely rock the socks off of any of the top 50 in a 1v1 matchup.
Rank is there to make the little girls who horde bases and mass resupply towns feel better about not actually killing another player in an online combat simulator.
I can get into the top 50 fairly easily doing this simple thing:
1 Milk run in a bomber, 1 base capture in a C47, 3 base captures in a vehicle with 1 town destroyed in an M4 rocket tank, drop 1 1K bomb on a full up CV from a Jabbo with a couple of GV and a couple of air kills. Use a P47 to straff a few buildings to get my accuracy up. Fly 262's for fighter ranked scores and shoot down a few buffs.
Feel free to use that if you'd like to consider yourself a premier in game pilot... :rofl
Post by: Lusche on October 23, 2017, 01:22:50 PM
1 Milk run in a bomber, 1 base capture in a C47, 3 base captures in a vehicle with 1 town destroyed in an M4 rocket tank, drop 1 1K bomb on a full up CV from a Jabbo with a couple of GV and a couple of air kills. Use a P47 to straff a few buildings to get my accuracy up. Fly 262's for fighter ranked scores and shoot down a few buffs.
With both a single capture in bomber and vehicles, you are more likely to end up in the top 10. At least. :noid
Seriously, I have a single capture in a vehicle and none in bombers at all, yet I'm currently #1 overall :rofl
Post by: wil3ur on October 23, 2017, 01:26:20 PM
Post by: bustr on October 23, 2017, 01:53:41 PM
I've run resupply during hot capture battles and the risk is very slight based against any other combat activities I've taken part in over the last 15 years. It's tougher to run troops since they give themselves away once you kick them out. I stopped running supplies to the town because one thing stayed constant for years, when you beat the attack with supplies, you often didn't see anymore combat for a long time that evening. In some ways delivering supplies to crap on all the players friend and foe who just fought over the real-estate is quasi the c word. The defenders only sense of it is now they have to wait for maybe the next fight to get started, if it even does for that evening.
Since troops in WW2 never had a giant red "P" hovering over them, why not base supplies stay persistent for 30-60sec with an icon and they can be destroyed during the persistent period? Some guys might even stay put to fight for their supply box with their 50cal.
Most of the players defending one guy hiding in the bushes controlling the outcome of 10-20 guys risking something by fighting have not been around very long. M3's with supplies screwing 20 guys is pretty much like handing out participation trophy's and dictating equal outcomes to make everyone a winner. The unintended consequence is how this stops a large scale activity for everyone involved on both sides with only one guy who pushed a single button sort of a winner.
Another possibility, when that box dictates the outcome of the base capture and ends the fun for both sides, a name in lights message should go up, player x just screwed your evening with his supply drop at field xyz. Everyone else gets a name in lights for combat deeds, why not name in lights for screwing people out of their evenings fun.....
Post by: popeye on October 23, 2017, 02:06:25 PM
Post by: Randy1 on October 23, 2017, 02:25:21 PM
Rank is there to make the little girls who horde bases and mass resupply towns feel better about not actually killing another player in an online combat simulator.
And . . . I rest my case again. The biggest m3 complainers can often be found in a horde.
This is much to easy. :rofl
Post by: Lusche on October 23, 2017, 02:40:01 PM
And . . . I rest my case again. The biggest m3 complainers can often be found in a horde.
You will have to produce evidence for that, before you can 'rest your case'
Better yet, you also provide evidence the "hands off m3 supps" guys can NOT be found in hordes.
:)
Post by: perdue3 on October 23, 2017, 03:06:18 PM
Rank is there to make the little girls who horde bases and mass resupply towns feel better about not actually killing another player in an online combat simulator.
Take it from a little girl who cares about rank, resupplying hurts your vehicle score. You get 0 kill points, 0 Field Captures, 0 Hit Percentage, 0 Bombing Hit Percentage and 0 kills. Therefore you have spent time (which hurts your Kill/Time) and a sortie (which hurts your Kill/Sortie) simply traveling to a base. If you die (which hurts your Kills/Death), it hurts your score even more.
I do agree, however, that the problem with the M3 is the field supplies. Rather, the problem is the mechanic of resupplying towns. Maybe only field objects (ordnance, fuel, radar, etc.) should be able to be resupplied, not towns.
Post by: Randy1 on October 23, 2017, 03:06:44 PM
Better yet, you also provide evidence the "hands off m3 supps" guys can NOT be found in hordes.
:)
Just about every player in the game has been in a horde. :) Me included albeit I find hording without a base take to be a complete waist of game play time.
Post by: wil3ur on October 23, 2017, 03:09:07 PM
I'll go 1v1 against you if you think I can't handle my own.
Post by: Randy1 on October 23, 2017, 03:19:10 PM
I'll go 1v1 against you if you think I can't handle my own.
No doubt. So can a lot of players. I am a few days from 70 so my reaction time is that of a rasin. I do enjoy the whole game so I battle against those that are small minded when it comes to the extensive venue AH offers.
Post by: Lusche on October 23, 2017, 03:44:23 PM
And . . . I rest my case again. The biggest m3 complainers can often be found in a horde.
This is much to easy. :rofl
Just about every player in the game has been in a horde. :)
:)
Post by: Devil 505 on October 23, 2017, 04:08:45 PM
I was looking through the top 50 Ranking list for this tour. Do y'all use a different name in the game?
You think rank actually is a relevant measure of something. How cute.
Post by: wil3ur on October 23, 2017, 04:24:02 PM
You think rank actually is a relevant measure of something. How cute.
:rofl :ahand
Post by: JunkyII on October 23, 2017, 05:51:37 PM
Just about every player in the game has been in a horde. :) Me included albeit I find hording without a base take to be a complete waist of game play time.No every player has been apart of a horde before, the difference is some people try to avoid being part of it when they can.
I watch you and a lot of other players who complain about hordes hanging out above your field not pushing out from it....which makes it easy to kill you, its not the horde causing you to get vulched, it's your inability to see that if you push away from your field and actually fight that you will have separation to get off your field and get energy in order to fight.
Post by: wil3ur on October 23, 2017, 06:02:48 PM
if you push away from your field and actually fight that you will have separation to get off your field and get energy in order to fight.
^^This is truth -- the funniest part is, most people are so transfixed on a vulch, that they will ignore the plane that gets airborne and sneaks out of the ack thinking that someone else is going to take care of it, meanwhile no one else does anything because they're all looking down.
I've also seen many a vulch start because a guy that has 14K altitude decides to run from a 1v1 and split S straight back to their ack and lose all alt and E in the process, making people like me upset so I start taking down base ack because they believe themselves safe.
Or the idiot that sits in an 88 taking popshots at a fight 12K out, so I come in and knock out the 88 and start deacking the field in the process because I want to ruin his fun since he's ruining mine...
OR...
Post by: Zener on October 23, 2017, 07:40:07 PM
Both times it kept going and going and going until the CV was sunk.
So here you have one side using ship-based offensive weapons, aircraft, and LVTs... and it's somehow unfair that the town was resupped to focus on the air targets and not have to keep people low over the beach or town? If anything, those resupply runs kept the fight going longer. And it did that both times; kept the fight going on and on.
The attackers had plenty of heavy planes to keep the VH in check (mostly), and enough to run a few bombs and rockets into town now and then, but couldn't have one of them fly low from town to spawn looking for resuppliers? Hard to fathom.
Take away the ability to resupply and all you're going to get is easier base takes, so much easier that you won't get the fights you imagine but you will get people abandoning the base as lost and forming up to go where planes aren't to take a field of their own. It will be the same as the horde NOE mission days where even more combat avoidance will happen in the name of taking bases.
Post by: bozon on October 24, 2017, 03:35:11 PM
what if both type of players cannot be found in a horde?! :eek: :eek:
You will have to produce evidence for that, before you can 'rest your case'
Better yet, you also provide evidence the "hands off m3 supps" guys can NOT be found in hordes.
:)
Who is then IN the hordes? The Dothraki?! :uhoh
Post by: 100Coogn on October 24, 2017, 03:39:22 PM
what if both type of players cannot be found in a horde?! :eek: :eek:
Who is then IN the hordes? The Dothraki?! :uhoh
Illuminati? :uhoh
Coogan
Post by: molybdenum on October 25, 2017, 06:57:21 PM
Just yesterday there were at least two prolonged battles at A10. A CV came in and leveled the town while plenty of planes upped from the field and the CV killing each other over and over. LVTs began pouring in and now the fight shifts to having to defend air AND ground, and so supplies got run to the town to GF it, then the air fight resumed.
Both times it kept going and going and going until the CV was sunk.
So here you have one side using ship-based offensive weapons, aircraft, and LVTs... and it's somehow unfair that the town was resupped to focus on the air targets and not have to keep people low over the beach or town? If anything, those resupply runs kept the fight going longer. And it did that both times; kept the fight going on and on.
The attackers had plenty of heavy planes to keep the VH in check (mostly), and enough to run a few bombs and rockets into town now and then, but couldn't have one of them fly low from town to spawn looking for resuppliers? Hard to fathom.
Take away the ability to resupply and all you're going to get is easier base takes, so much easier that you won't get the fights you imagine but you will get people abandoning the base as lost and forming up to go where planes aren't to take a field of their own. It will be the same as the horde NOE mission days where even more combat avoidance will happen in the name of taking bases.
Well said.
The people who whine the loudest about m3s resupping towns have a strong tendency to be good fighter pilots who are annoyed that people aren't upping out of a capped base in order to get shot down. M3 type players care about whether bases get taken or not, and usually upping from another base and trying to save the day from it won't work: there isn't time. M3s often if not usually PROLONG a fight instead of shorten it--don't know if the whiners are willfully ignorant about that or what.
Nerf m3 resup and what will happen? The people who care will mostly give the base up as a lost cause and go somewhere else because there isn't anything they can do to prevent it. This is likely to cause hording to increase and base takes to become much easier, which will, again, subtract instead of add to the combat aspect of this game.
Post by: bustr on October 25, 2017, 09:12:08 PM
The attackers had plenty of heavy planes to keep the VH in check (mostly), and enough to run a few bombs and rockets into town now and then, but couldn't have one of them fly low from town to spawn looking for resuppliers? Hard to fathom.
I believe for one part of that A10 assault I was there upping from the CV. This is kind of a simplistic view of dealing with M3's since the passes so close to the ground to find them, then return to shoot them, very often result in the cons defending the base killing you. And then M3's keep on delivering while you and your countrymen just gave up kills for no good reason. So then you would need air cover for the M3 hunters while most players are just skilled enough to fight the defenders but, out of their league threading through defenders to only target M3's and not get shot down. I've delivered supplies to town under those circumstances and it was for the most part a cake walk to get there. The new trees and clutter are an M3's best friend. Another reason why on my terrains I place a grass buffer around towns, just about all terrains but mine have groves of trees or bushes right up to the town.
Hitech could increase the GV icon range to make running M3's as dangerous as flying fighters since they have a much greater impact on outcomes with a single box of supplies than a single fighter. Or he could only allow town resupply to bring up the guns and nothing else. That would be much more equitable to all the players risking something fighting over the capture. Otherwise have we now become a new class of victims once someone wants to start a fight to capture our field that needs invisible help to have a level playing feild in a combat game?
Post by: Lyme on October 25, 2017, 10:02:09 PM
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 25, 2017, 11:16:02 PM
Post by: Chilli on October 26, 2017, 03:13:00 AM
Why is the effort necessary to capture so lopsided? Don't wish to hear any balogna about how that it is not, or that we should have had another imaginary friend to pork two VH's at the same time.
Maybe the answer lies with increasing Vehicle downtimes to 30 minutes. :headscratch:
Post by: bozon on October 26, 2017, 05:29:30 AM
Well said.The good fighter pilots tell you to take off from the next field, not the one being vulched.
The people who whine the loudest about m3s resupping towns have a strong tendency to be good fighter pilots who are annoyed that people aren't upping out of a capped base in order to get shot down. M3 type players care about whether bases get taken or not, and usually upping from another base and trying to save the day from it won't work: there isn't time. M3s often if not usually PROLONG a fight instead of shorten it--don't know if the whiners are willfully ignorant about that or what.
Nerf m3 resup and what will happen? The people who care will mostly give the base up as a lost cause and go somewhere else because there isn't anything they can do to prevent it. This is likely to cause hording to increase and base takes to become much easier, which will, again, subtract instead of add to the combat aspect of this game.
M3 resupply does make the fight longer, but it makes a bad fight longer. Making the town pop up does not remove the CAP - coming in from another field with some energy can potentially remove the CAP - and that is a much better fight whether the effort succeeds or not.
Post by: wil3ur on October 26, 2017, 09:47:06 AM
The good fighter pilots tell you to take off from the next field, not the one being vulched.
:aok
Post by: save on October 26, 2017, 10:11:17 AM
Its effectively a one-sided computer aided gunsight today.
Post by: JunkyII on October 26, 2017, 10:52:22 AM
Well said.I watch all you godly base takers leave base attacks as soon as someone says town is popping so don't give me that crap that resupply prolongs fights .
The people who whine the loudest about m3s resupping towns have a strong tendency to be good fighter pilots who are annoyed that people aren't upping out of a capped base in order to get shot down. M3 type players care about whether bases get taken or not, and usually upping from another base and trying to save the day from it won't work: there isn't time. M3s often if not usually PROLONG a fight instead of shorten it--don't know if the whiners are willfully ignorant about that or what.
Nerf m3 resup and what will happen? The people who care will mostly give the base up as a lost cause and go somewhere else because there isn't anything they can do to prevent it. This is likely to cause hording to increase and base takes to become much easier, which will, again, subtract instead of add to the combat aspect of this game.
I'm the loudest "whiner" and I'm the guy who is either heavy hitting the field or flying passed it to engage the high fighters coming in from further fields....because that is currently where the best fight is at. I've had plenty of 8+ kill sorties without vulching but damn near, trust me putting up numbers like that isn't what I find enjoyable, my most memorable sorties I died.
Post by: waystin2 on October 26, 2017, 11:17:58 AM
I watch all you godly base takers leave base attacks as soon as someone says town is popping so don't give me that crap that resupply prolongs fights .Junky you are arguing with a clueless armchair general that is perfectly safe at 35,000 feet. :bhead
I'm the loudest "whiner" and I'm the guy who is either heavy hitting the field or flying passed it to engage the high fighters coming in from further fields....because that is currently where the best fight is at. I've had plenty of 8+ kill sorties without vulching but damn near, trust me putting up numbers like that isn't what I find enjoyable, my most memorable sorties I died.
Post by: Hungry on October 26, 2017, 11:39:48 AM
Post by: Lusche on October 26, 2017, 11:51:16 AM
35000 feet is out check
We honored that rule yesterday and stayed below 35K :old:
(https://i.imgur.com/MPuDZ0c.jpg)
Post by: wil3ur on October 26, 2017, 12:56:01 PM
1 Milk run in a bomber, 1 base capture in a C47, 3 base captures in a vehicle with 1 town destroyed in an M4 rocket tank, drop 1 1K bomb on a full up CV from a Jabbo with a couple of GV and a couple of air kills. Use a P47 to straff a few buildings to get my accuracy up. Fly 262's for fighter ranked scores and shoot down a few buffs.
So no base captures this month, and I just did my first two fighter sorties last night. I dropped 600 ranks overnight from those two sorties and am now in the top 100 Pilots!
I'M SO EPIC!!!! :joystick:
Post by: Wiley on October 26, 2017, 12:58:48 PM
Between this and the Manned gun thread the tone has turned for the worse, so M3's are out check, Manned guns are out check, 35000 feet is out check, you guys need to learn how to fight right in the middle where they want you.
Lower than the middle. We must all fly something from mid war, below 5k and never do anything other than fight until we die. These are the rules of the Good Player(TM). Everything else is bad, and bad for the game, and you should feel bad for doing it.
:rolleyes:
Wiley.
Post by: waystin2 on October 26, 2017, 01:37:06 PM
Post by: Lazerr on October 26, 2017, 01:47:50 PM
I will quietly log off knowing in the back of my mind the types of huge battles that took place before these things killed them off.
I play 1 day a week if im lucky. What would I know. Im a skilless vulching gangbanging dweeb.
My last suggestion is to put a video on steam of a stream of m3s driving in formation into town to save the day..
For 14.95 a month you can join the convoy! Maybe a set of low lancs carpet bombing them to show how dangerous it really is.
Post by: Wiley on October 26, 2017, 02:26:49 PM
Ive given up on these supply and manned guns threads..
I will quietly log off knowing in the back of my mind the types of huge battles that took place before these things killed them off.
:rofl When have you or Junky done ANYTHING concerning this subject quietly?
It's a shame. I'm pretty sure one or two more threads belaboring the same points really would've made a difference. Really.
Got to admit though I'm in the same boat. FSO, scenarios, and squad night are about it for me lately. I'm sure I'll cycle back one day.
Wiley.
Post by: Randy1 on October 26, 2017, 02:51:06 PM
So no base captures this month, and I just did my first two fighter sorties last night. I dropped 600 ranks overnight from those two sorties and am now in the top 100 Pilots!
I'M SO EPIC!!!! :joystick:
You should try to do more. Maybe you would get more out of the game.
Last night I flew several fighter sorties and shot down some reds. Upped a 38L and killed a couple of GVs. Flew a c47 to capture a base from the bish and did with the help of several Rooks. Ran a resupply run with an M3. Upped a wirble and helped take down a town. Most of the time there is a tank thrown in the mix but those very long gv runs to town ate up a lot of time. Had a good night though.
I look for the action then look to see how I can help the Rooks. If no action then our squad captures bases until we get their attention. Works every time.
Post by: JunkyII on October 26, 2017, 06:02:51 PM
:rofl When have you or Junky done ANYTHING concerning this subject quietly?I landed 8 Kills the other day killing 251s running to the field....found Zero enjoyment shooting fish in a red solo cup.
It's a shame. I'm pretty sure one or two more threads belaboring the same points really would've made a difference. Really.
Got to admit though I'm in the same boat. FSO, scenarios, and squad night are about it for me lately. I'm sure I'll cycle back one day.
Wiley.
Post by: The Fugitive on October 26, 2017, 06:07:22 PM
Lower than the middle. We must all fly something from mid war, below 5k and never do anything other than fight until we die. These are the rules of the Good Player(TM). Everything else is bad, and bad for the game, and you should feel bad for doing it.
:rolleyes:
Wiley.
I dont care WHAT they fly, drive or gun. I just want them to FIGHT for it. If you think your going to win in a fight from a gun, go for it, but I dont seem to get killed by guns much. I would like to get credit for a kill when I drop them tho. After all Im putting my "flight" in danger kicking them out of it if that is the type of FIGHT they want.
I dont see running supplies as fighting any which way you want to call it. You want to save your base, FIGHT me for it thats all. WHen grabbing supplies is the first thing a player thinks of as "defense" something is wrong.
Post by: ACE on October 27, 2017, 09:54:47 AM
Post by: atlau on October 27, 2017, 10:00:49 AM
I landed 8 Kills the other day killing 251s running to the field....found Zero enjoyment shooting fish in a red solo cup.
Use a c202 and make it more challenging! :)
Post by: JunkyII on October 27, 2017, 10:28:16 AM
Use a c202 and make it more challenging! :)Yea Im sure it will make my night so much more fun :aok
Post by: bustr on October 27, 2017, 01:34:03 PM
Post by: flippz on October 27, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
Please don't give Junky ideas, anytime he fly's something besides the 152, he becomes insufferable. He already picks fights with whole countries and wins them much of the time and we have to listen to him on squad channel. Just ignore him, he's bored and ranting again. When this M3 thingy is over he will probably figure out how to land kills with a storch taking on other countries alone...... :rolleyes:no words for this
anti-horde
Post by: JunkyII on October 27, 2017, 04:25:34 PM
no words for thisIs your new in game name Fodder?
anti-horde
Oh and why no words?
JunkyII > Anti-Horde
Post by: Zener on October 27, 2017, 04:42:31 PM
M3 promotes sissy combat.
How can it when people are so afraid to go hunt them they want their functions disabled?
Post by: JunkyII on October 27, 2017, 07:15:45 PM
How can it when people are so afraid to go hunt them they want their functions disabled?afraid??? :rofl :rofl scared to kill something that can't shoot me back? Because an M3 can't shoot me while I'm attacking it.
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 28, 2017, 10:42:42 AM
afraid??? :rofl :rofl scared to kill something that can't shoot me back? Because an M3 can't shoot me while I'm attacking it.I get kills in M3 quite often! Not proxies ....KILLS. More kills than proxies anyway. M3 does have a .50. Just have to know when to use it. :old:
Post by: JimmyD3 on October 28, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
Post by: JunkyII on October 28, 2017, 12:09:58 PM
I get kills in M3 quite often! Not proxies ....KILLS. More kills than proxies anyway. M3 does have a .50. Just have to know when to use it. :old:The reason you are getting that kill is because the person attacking you is making a mistake, not because of your talent. Same when you get a kill with a main gun from a tank.
Junky, love ya brother, but your starting to sound like "Midway" on this issue. :bolt:If you mean passionate like he was with his FPH's then I'll take it as a compliment :aok
Post by: bustr on October 28, 2017, 12:53:58 PM
Let me tell you, you do not want to see Junky in his high heels and fishnets, nope, the whole squad found a box canyon and flew into the walls to clean that vision out of our eyes..... :O
Post by: Ramesis on October 28, 2017, 02:08:18 PM
M3 promotes sissy combat.
Let me guess... u consider those that drove M3s with or without troops
"sissies" in the WWII, Korean, Nam and subsequent wars?
Post by: JunkyII on October 28, 2017, 02:33:52 PM
Let me guess... u consider those that drove M3s with or without troopsDon't bring up real war with this because that is completely ridiculous....if it was realistic we wouldn't have vehicle spawns and it would take a steady flow of m3s over the duration of the day to resupply fields.
"sissies" in the WWII, Korean, Nam and subsequent wars?
Post by: scott66 on October 28, 2017, 04:32:54 PM
Don't bring up real war with this because that is completely ridiculous....if it was realistic we wouldn't have vehicle spawns and it would take a steady flow of m3s over the duration of the day to resupply fields.or 109s handing out together at high alt waiting to pick... For once I agree with you junky.. Nothing about this game resembles real war.. However it's still really fun
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 28, 2017, 06:39:53 PM
The reason you are getting that kill is because the person attacking you is making a mistake, not because of your talent. Same when you get a kill with a main gun from a tank.Its only way to get a kill,NO? It takes skill,not everyone can do it! I dont try to main gun from a tank, i suck at it. Everything in this game requires some degree of skill. I understand what you were trying to say, though. :D
If you mean passionate like he was with his FPH's then I'll take it as a compliment :aok
Post by: scott66 on October 28, 2017, 07:54:45 PM
or 109s hanging out with p38s together at high alt waiting to pick... For once I agree with you junky.. Very few things in this game resembles real war.. However it's still really fun....IMHOedited
Post by: JunkyII on October 28, 2017, 08:01:06 PM
Its only way to get a kill,NO? It takes skill,not everyone can do it! I dont try to main gun from a tank, i suck at it. Everything in this game requires some degree of skill. I understand what you were trying to say, though. :DNot really, the aiming mechanic with guns is easy compared to other first person shooters
Post by: bozon on October 29, 2017, 02:21:46 AM
Not really, the aiming mechanic with guns is easy compared to other first person shootersWhat aim?
You wait for the strafing plane to be right over you and then shoot at the tree next to you. The plane dies from the blast radius.
Post by: icepac on October 29, 2017, 09:49:35 AM
This was while driving over a sector on the trinity map that people say is impassable.
It's not, obviously, if you can straddle the tops of the mountains for the entire trip.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3817/10955223975_eefeb91023_b.jpg)
Post by: Flayed1 on October 29, 2017, 10:11:33 AM
It's most effective with a competent driver.
This was while driving over a sector on the trinity map that people say is impassable.
It's not, obviously, if you can straddle the tops of the mountains for the entire trip.
LOL this reminds me of the time I drove a sector and a half through Mindanao, a good share of it in reverse because 1st gear couldn't climb the hills and hid above the town of one of the rooks 163 bases back when they were still capturable. I waited for 3 squad mates to level town with buffs and then snuck in with red cons flying over me the entire time. I mean why look down, there was no GV spawn to that base. Right as my troops took the map room 10 or more 163's decided to launch all at once into unfriendly field guns.. I'm sure we had some unhappy folks just then. :D
Sorry, a bit off topic but I just had a trip down memory lane. :old:
Post by: thndregg on October 29, 2017, 10:51:18 AM
It's most effective with a competent driver.
This was while driving over a sector on the trinity map that people say is impassable.
It's not, obviously, if you can straddle the tops of the mountains for the entire trip.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3817/10955223975_eefeb91023_b.jpg)
Yep! I've done this. :aok
Post by: Ramesis on October 29, 2017, 02:02:31 PM
Don't bring up real war with this because that is completely ridiculous....if it was realistic we wouldn't have vehicle spawns and it would take a steady flow of m3s over the duration of the day to resupply fields.But... the goal I think HTC is striving for IS realism... if it weren't... its just an arcade game :D
Post by: JunkyII on October 29, 2017, 02:07:28 PM
But... the goal I think HTC is striving for IS realism... if it weren't... its just an arcade game :DThey are but if you want that type of realism then have fun with hours of driving supplies.
Post by: thndregg on October 29, 2017, 02:44:02 PM
But... the goal I think HTC is striving for IS realism... if it weren't... its just an arcade game :D
The fact that objects/resources are still set to be able to be destroyed ever since this game's birth..
The fact that the game still contains all the facets and characteristics of being much more than just exclusively about fighter aircraft,
and the fact that HTC for 18 years has not wavered in the slightest from that approach proves the company still caters to a much broader demographic of subscribers than just simply and exclusively fighter enthusiasts.
Oh, the disdain occasionally uttered about that simple premise. :rolleyes:
Post by: The Fugitive on October 29, 2017, 02:56:47 PM
But... the goal I think HTC is striving for IS realism... if it weren't... its just an arcade game :D
Hitech has always said that this is a GAME using WWII type equipment. Its the equipment that they try to make as realistic as possible. Many things are "adjusted" for game playablity. If it was to strive for realism for everything we would be messing with engine management and so much more.
Post by: molybdenum on October 29, 2017, 04:19:18 PM
HELLO the 35,000 foot comment was directed at specific armchair general who is usually 5 sectors up and 5 sectors away from the action he is trying to direct. Yeeesh everybody is so sensitive. :bolt:
That of course would be me. Don't really want to change the direction of the topic but I have to ask: what is wrong with reading the map and offering suggestions to teammates on what we ought to be doing? It's a luxury buff pilots have--we're not actively engaged in battle for most of our sorties, so that frees us to look at the big picture and potentially see things other people are too busy to notice.
Post by: Puma44 on October 29, 2017, 05:38:04 PM
Hitech has always said that this is a GAME using WWII type equipment. Its the equipment that they try to make as realistic as possible. Many things are "adjusted" for game playablity. If it was to strive for realism for everything we would be messing with engine management and so much more.
.....and not have a big red icon on the opponents.
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 29, 2017, 06:19:49 PM
What aim?With machine gun? WHOA...been doing it ALL WRONG :x Kidding, I know what you mean. Couldnt stop myself :devil
You wait for the strafing plane to be right over you and then shoot at the tree next to you. The plane dies from the blast radius.
Post by: bozon on October 30, 2017, 01:47:05 AM
With machine gun? WHOA...been doing it ALL WRONG :x Kidding, I know what you mean. Couldnt stop myself :devilBah.. get out of the tank and shoot them with the 0.45.
:)
Post by: JunkyII on October 30, 2017, 10:03:16 AM
No even when he's in the middle of a knife fight Waystin sees the big picture better then you...and nobody needs you typing in caps telling people where to fight at ect ect.
That of course would be me. Don't really want to change the direction of the topic but I have to ask: what is wrong with reading the map and offering suggestions to teammates on what we ought to be doing? It's a luxury buff pilots have--we're not actively engaged in battle for most of our sorties, so that frees us to look at the big picture and potentially see things other people are too busy to notice.
Post by: 1stpar3 on October 30, 2017, 11:52:21 AM
Bah.. get out of the tank and shoot them with the 0.45.Done that! .45 doesnt have QUITE enough ammo :x
:)
Post by: Krusty on October 30, 2017, 11:59:36 AM
.....and not have a big red icon on the opponents.
But you'd also be locked into 60 degrees FOV at all times as well. Icons aren't a realism issue. They're an information issue. There are many ways to do icons, so if you have issue take it up with HOW they're done, not that they EXIST.