Author Topic: Retract GV Dar.  (Read 3853 times)

Offline 27th

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Retract GV Dar.
« on: December 03, 2017, 01:33:14 PM »

My wish is for the retraction of GV dar all together.

Real Game Scenario #1:
I took notice of a Knight GV dar at a spawn and drove east to base 115 about 2-3 sectors away. At the time, A115 was being attacked by a battleship and a CV but the cliffs are too high for an LVT. For then to up a goon would have been a 4-5 sector flight. So, I get it. The problem was that I see it coming from the tower. I spawned in with a M3 with field supplies to 115's town and I resupplied it. Next, I went east to meet up to the GV dar that I know in my gut was an enemy M3.  Finally after the Knight drove about 3 sectors, I caught him with my M3 and killed it. 

If I didn't have the GV dar, that player would have a awesome capture.

There is no strategy left in GV's.

Real Game Scenario #2
After WF a town, planes know immediately where the M3s are in small area. With the game having low numbers for most of the time. There is no way you'll be capturing bases unless its a horde of M3's and fighter suppression. The hiding aspect is gone. What is the trees use for now?

Furthermore,
With majority saying that the Tiger 2 and the JagPanther, etc are "hanger queens" I imagine now with planes and people in the tower know there's a tank coming because they see GV red dar box near their base from a spawn.

My request/ wish is to retract the GV dar.  :salute

Thank you.

 :salute
27th

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2017, 01:42:33 PM »
-100
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Offline bustr

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2017, 02:32:18 PM »
You will have a better chance of persuading him to remove the aspect of GVDAR that shows you the general area a GV is in and replacing it with a DARBAR for GVs that is none directional. Still, directional GVDAR removes how easy it is for tanks to get onto airfields made invisible by the trees. Unless you are advocating that tanks should rule the game and force the air combat players to spend their time hunting for invisible tanks and not playing air combat.

Since AH3 went live I see a lot of air combat screwed by players sneaking onto the airfield of origin versus upping a plane and fighting. It is vastly simpler just to drive invisible in the trees onto the airfield and de-ack and take away the ability to have air combat by 10-20 players. Even with my terrains where I place a 1\2 mile grass strip around the fields, they wait for all the air combat guys to head off to fight and start de-acking and taking everything down. That is a game imbalance if one person using one part of the game alone or in very small numbers, can force a larger number of players to not be able to enjoy the part of the game they logged in for constantly. Even when the air combat guys stick around and destroy the tanks, then head off to enjoy some air combat, that does not remove the one guy who eventually screws them out of their furballing with attrition. You can furball or you can in effect have your play time activities dictated by one grifer who knows, you can furball or you can stay at your field all night killing him. I suspect this has a bit to do with the directional part of the new GVDAR which I think can be reduced to a simple GVDARBAR instead.

I spend a lot of time watching combat on terrains to understand how to build them to promote combat. When the AH3 trees are painted right up to the edge of an airfield, it's a toss up if the auto ack will detect or be able to hit GVs. The GV's can move around the perimeter of the field at will essentially greifing the field and forcing groups of players to spend time hunting one grifer who they have to get rid of to keep their field. Many of those greifers will spend hours returning even after thier VH has been killed and rebuilds many times holding that field and it's players hostage with the greifing. That gives a single tank a disproportional ability to dictates outcomes from what a single fighter or single bomber can accomplish because this is a game. For those using the realism canard, single tanks in WW2 did not have this kind of ability regardless of Hollywood. Our Romulan teleportation spawn gives them that ability along with the Klingon Cloaking trees. 
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Offline 27th

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2017, 03:57:08 PM »
First of all, to Devil 505 needs to respond in full sentences and not give childish remarks. A person needs to give his or her thought of pro or oppose the request.

Second, for bustr, thanks for your response.
"You will have a better chance of persuading him to remove the aspect of GVDAR that shows you the general area a GV is in and replacing it with a DARBAR for GVs that is none directional. Still, directional GVDAR removes how easy it is for tanks to get onto airfields made invisible by the trees. Unless you are advocating that tanks should rule the game and force the air combat players to spend their time hunting for invisible tanks and not playing air combat."

Why try to fix what wasn't broken? Your warning was the blinking of the town individuality or base. Its up to the player in the tower of what to take to counter act the warning.  Is it an NOE mission or a  GV, right? Cant be lazy and let the game tell you what it is. :headscratch: Figure it out. Are you taking an IL2, A20, B25H  or 109K4, Spitfire?  :airplane: or counter with a tank.

Don't assume I have an underlying agenda other than to make this game better or point out its miss steps. Tanks don't rule anything. You're forgetting that numbers still tend to be low in large maps and people want to capture bases. There isn't a consistent amount of people to promote conflict all the time. This is not Aces High peak of 2005-2008 with 2 full main arenas of 500 cap and the 3 main arena halfway full.

Fact: the GV dar,that can be seen from the tower and plane in flight, has killed GV strategy. No disputing that. Some people are getting lazy to see whats making the town/base flash. Is that it?  Is that what you're saying?

Since AH3 went live I see a lot of air combat screwed by players sneaking onto the airfield of origin versus upping a plane and fighting. It is vastly simpler just to drive invisible in the trees onto the airfield and de-ack and take away the ability to have air combat by 10-20 players. Even with my terrains where I place a 1\2 mile grass strip around the fields, they wait for all the air combat guys to head off to fight and start de-acking and taking everything down. That is a game imbalance if one person using one part of the game alone or in very small numbers, can force a larger number of players to not be able to enjoy the part of the game they logged in for constantly. Even when the air combat guys stick around and destroy the tanks, then head off to enjoy some air combat, that does not remove the one guy who eventually screws them out of their furballing with attrition. You can furball or you can in effect have your play time activities dictated by one grifer who knows, you can furball or you can stay at your field all night killing him. I suspect this has a bit to do with the directional part of the new GVDAR which I think can be reduced to a simple GVDARBAR instead.

The GV aspect in Aces High has always been part of the game going on my 17 years.

You're trying to promote furballing and not promote the main idea of the game of winning the war? People do whatever they want to do in the game. 
Furball?  Cool   :aok
Bombing? Excellent.  :aok
Going to pork an air field in a heavy fighter? Outstanging  :aok
Going to deack a base with a group of friends to vulch?  Have fun.  :aok
But punishing players who like the GV aspect and having a GV darbar where a person in the tower and someone in flight can see in a dar bar because you're saying that person might kill a furball going on? What is wrong with that picture.   :bhead


Having the just GVdarbar that gv's can see wont work either.  That GV guy can tell the guy in the A20, "ya the gv dar bar is east of me." We have gone thru that period briefly.

I spend a lot of time watching combat on terrains to understand how to build them to promote combat. When the AH3 trees are painted right up to the edge of an airfield, it's a toss up if the auto ack will detect or be able to hit GVs. The GV's can move around the perimeter of the field at will essentially greifing the field and forcing groups of players to spend time hunting one grifer who they have to get rid of to keep their field. Many of those greifers will spend hours returning even after thier VH has been killed and rebuilds many times holding that field and it's players hostage with the greifing. That gives a single tank a disproportional ability to dictates outcomes from what a single fighter or single bomber can accomplish because this is a game. For those using the realism canard, single tanks in WW2 did not have this kind of ability regardless of Hollywood. Our Romulan teleportation spawn gives them that ability along with the Klingon Cloaking trees.

Bustr, I really do appreciate the hard work that it took to build those maps. :)  :rock  I agree that removing trees around the perimeter especially in airfield not only for GV attacks but I still see some trees blocking the runway at the end of it.

I'll point out a few things more.  :cool:
-In some of the older maps since the inception of Aces High 3, over a year ago, the trees have killed tank town inside the large crater. That's a fact.
-People are in a uproar of players spawn camping the main spawn hanger in a  V base. For those people do it, more power to them. There was time to react to the base blinking and take a GV yourself. But when no one react to the base blinking ,time has passed enough that is too late and there is a T34 killing anyone that spawns from the hanger.

I believe that only at a V base only, players should able to choose from any of the four hangers to spawn from to counter that enemy GV on base. Right?  :aok

I don't have anything to add. I made my case. If you talk to people who play a lot of GV play and get their input, there is an obvious flaw.
Thank you bustr and my request still stands.

 :salute
27th

« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 04:13:01 PM by 27th »

Offline SPKmes

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2017, 09:22:04 PM »
I do have to agree that the new dar is a little too much... to be able to see dar when I am fighting on another front is a little ridiculous. Not sure of a solution but this one is quite a shocker really...Do I get frustrated looking for the GVer that is sitting under a tree flashing a base just waiting for some sucker to drive by...sure.... but the new Dar system is backwards .... can't icons be made to show through foliage for shut down GV's or something.
I actually takes a bit of fun out of the hunt for the hunter too....But then again....I have never really been into the easy kill thing.

Offline icepac

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2017, 10:46:39 PM »
Removing stealth from a combat sim is why I left.

Apparently, we are expected to fight like the redcoats of the revolutionary war and simply march straight in.

I also feel that friendly dar shouldn't apply to GV or planes below 60 feet.

Offline bustr

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2017, 11:03:54 PM »
The main point of the game is not about winning the war, that is an option to entertain people as one of many options to entertain many diverse interests. The MA is about balancing all of those options so an individual only has the ability to affect the game as an individual, not disproportionate to the outcome a single individual can express. Why you have to put together a large bomber mission or large group of players to do a proportionate amount of damage. One reason for no nuke or tallboy.

Balance is at the heart of the game because of all the competing interests. When you look at most of Hitech's out of the blue adjustments like the GVDAR from that perspective, it's obvious even if you want to argue till the cows come home he is stomping personally on GVs. Right now the GVDAR is addressing being able to dictate the whole night's outcome for a larger group of players with a single tank. Painting 1\2 mile of grass around every field and town would have solved most of this. Same kind of urge by the strat runners and the 49ers when they went ballistic over Hitech adjusting the HQ settings in AH2. They had discovered a way to dictate the fun of a larger group with a disproportionate effort to the level of the outcome. They can still attack the HQ in the same manner they once did, it will take a proportional amount of effort to over come the HQ change which means numbers of players.

GVDAR means a single tank no longer dictates the outcome for a large group of players because of the klingon cloaking trees. The game is not about 1 player dictating outcomes to many players unless that player is the pinnacle of possible skill like kappa taking on 5 planes and landing 5 kills. The trees making tanks assume an invisibility cloak grants a single tank a disproportionate amount of ability to the real ability of the individual player. In other FPS games you would be reporting that player to the MODS for finessing the game.

At one time Hitech changed the DAR minimum to 65ft from 250ft because everyone during the 400 player a night era avoided combat and attacked undefended feilds. I doubt sneaking around is something Hitech ever intended with his combat simulation. The MA is not a war simulation like FSO or other SEA arena WW2 events. If it was, the rules governing my terrain building would not be about balance.
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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2017, 12:23:20 AM »
Removing stealth from a combat sim is why I left.

Apparently, we are expected to fight like the redcoats of the revolutionary war and simply march straight in.

I also feel that friendly dar shouldn't apply to GV or planes below 60 feet.

Agreed.  The tank symbols just clutter up the clipboard map.  Can't even see the base/town icons a lot of time, because there's tank icons all over place.
At least the base/town icons should be layered on top of the tanks or aircraft icons for that matter.

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Offline waystin2

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2017, 07:13:09 AM »
I think it works fine and should be left in game.
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Offline SPKmes

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2017, 12:24:15 PM »
I understand what you are saying Buster...but I feel that the GVdar as it is now...is like the air dar not only showing that there is a con in sector..but also what alt they are and general direction.... now can you imagine the fall out from that...as it is now, I have played enough to have a good idea of direction and to some degree alt (from map watching) but these are guesstimates...and the alt can be way out at times.

For me it is what it is but I feel it is way lopsided now.... I no longer have to guess if there is an M3 coming in to resupply...I see a dar pop...and I'm off to the spawn to hammer it..... the other front is boring look around the map...oh look the town isn't flashing...but there is dar....I'm upping with my bombs and gonna nail him before he has the chance to even flash the town....

I do understand a need to combat the grievers...I just think it is bit heavy handed and a bit tooo easy......

Offline 27th

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 01:02:21 PM »
.......For me it is what it is but I feel it is way lopsided now.... I no longer have to guess if there is an M3 coming in to resupply...I see a dar pop...and I'm off to the spawn to hammer it..... the other front is boring look around the map...oh look the town isn't flashing...but there is dar....I'm upping with my bombs and gonna nail him before he has the chance to even flash the town....

I do understand a need to combat the grievers...I just think it is bit heavy handed and a bit tooo easy......

Absolutely. That's a fact.
It's killing the gameplay don't you realize it?

 :salute

27th


Offline 27th

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2017, 01:48:12 PM »
The main point of the game is not about winning the war, that is an option to entertain people as one of many options to entertain many diverse interests.

Winning the war is the main point of the game?  :headscratch: If that was the case will maps ever change? :headscratch: Bishops will never get together as a team roll over the map most of the time. That's what they do and do it well most of the time.:headscratch: What are strats used for? :headscratch:

Yes, I understand that there is a lot aspects of this game and people do what they want to do. Have fun.

Again....
Furball.  :aok
Bombing something  :aok
Deack and vulch?  :aok
Want to fly your goon and sight see the scenery?  :aok
But neutering a big part of the game in ground vehicles?  :headscratch:

GVDAR means a single tank no longer dictates the outcome for a large group of players because of the klingon cloaking trees.

No. You're assuming again.
If a single tank got the town for a couple reasons.
A) No one was paying attention to the town blinking and base blinking
B) Someone did notice and called out for someone to check it out but no one does.
C) People do up and do not have the patients to look for a tank on first couple of passes. You don't know hot to turn off your engine and listen. You don't know how to look in low passes.
D) No one ups a tank to counter the warning.
E) No patients of learning the ground vehicle aspect and listening for the enemy when you know either the enemy is coming for the town or the base.
F) You just simply don't care because you are doing whatever activity.

What has that resorted to?  Laziness GVdar.  There it is. Egged. 

You know you complain of the trees as a cloaking device. You know that people had concerns, including GV'ers, too many trees right? I have mentioned that since the start of AH3, the map with the crater in the middle with tank town has been killed off with too many trees. It used to have a large town in the middle of it and almost a plain terrain around it. It used to be a hotspot for GV'ers.

Yes,some trees are dense and provide a good spot to hide.
But the person in a plane either have no patients to look in low level passes he or she should resort other options to deal with it. But to have 4-5 guys in A20's and IL2's, etc because
there is a big pointer sign saying where you are?  :bhead

 :salute
27th

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2017, 02:56:44 PM »
Absolutely. That's a fact.
It's killing the gameplay don't you realize it?

 :salute

27th

No, it's killing YOUR gameplay, but it should increase the overall quality of gameplay.

I have said it many times before, but what was needed is more low level air action to stimulate interaction(combat) by all players. By increasing the ability for aircraft to hunt and attack GV's, the new GV dar should result more counter-GV sorties with a resulting need for fighters to kill the counter-GV'ers.

My advice to you is to start making friends with us fighter pilots - it might just save your life.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 03:06:39 PM by Devil 505 »
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Offline 27th

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2017, 03:55:47 PM »
No, it's killing YOUR gameplay, but it should increase the overall quality of gameplay.

I have said it many times before, but what was needed is more low level air action to stimulate interaction(combat) by all players. By increasing the ability for aircraft to hunt and attack GV's, the new GV dar should result more counter-GV sorties with a resulting need for fighters to kill the counter-GV'ers.

My advice to you is to start making friends with us fighter pilots - it might just save your life.


My advice to expand your ground vehicle skills and stop being depended on a aid to help you. There is training available.
You have no grounds for argument. You know why? You assume "...it should increase the overall quality of gameplay"

It's not. It has done the opposite. It has killed it.

If you can't see that, then your oblivious to the situation and suggest you cease to comment any further.

 :salute
27th

Btw by saying this, " I have said it many times before.."
I don't consider "-100"as a response earlier to this post "many times before"

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2017, 04:05:14 PM »
Well clearly the GV hunter's are having a better time, otherwise you would not be her crying about it.
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