ok..dont laugh...SUBMARINES, limited

[alpini13]

yeah i know... but hear me out.... only the very small midget type submarine....with two torpedoes, only available at the port,  these things are slow, and only have two shots to fire, but they could go where shore batteries cant fire as a spawn point for them, they have no machine guns and could not fire on the lvt or troops.  it could be interesting  possible candidates?         my choice   ,german seahund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seehund

[alpini13]

and yes i know the japanese had midgets as well... also another choice

[100Coogn]

Hope you get your wish Shrinky-Dink.   

Coogan

[OldNitro]

Not so funny..

Ages ago, I remember reading that HT's dad was a WW2 silent service veteran..
And HT was actually interested in adding a Submarine aspect to the game..

Adding a submarine, would mean adding DD's under your full control to hunt the subs!
In the manner of keeping things even, gameplay wise..

+1

[Arlo]

If Dale thought it would be worth the effort or practical he woulda done it by now. Sub sims are way different than AH (read 'slow and meticulous').

[OldNitro]

I always found quickies to be rather unsatisfying..

They say, death by starvation takes a long long time..
I wonder how long death by stagnation takes?

[FLS]

I'm sure there's a reason the water has depth now.

[Arlo]

I always found quickies to be rather unsatisfying..

They say, death by starvation takes a long long time..
I wonder how long death by stagnation takes?

Gawsh, Chicken Little.

[Mister Fork]

I'm sure there's a reason the water has depth now.

Yep.

I actually expect to see player controlled subs and destroyers some time this year.

[alpini13]

i remember a time when it was said there would be NO tiger 2, and NO b-29, and NO panther... well.. guess what!!!!.... we got em now.

[Arlo]

i remember a time when it was said there would be NO tiger 2, and NO b-29, and NO panther... well.. guess what!!!!.... we got em now.

None of which are part of a submarine simulation. 

[RODBUSTR]

    Kaitan?.... Manned torpedo. Perk the heck out of It.  To fund It give points for Manned gun and PT ops.   

[Mister Fork]

Manned torpedo gun would be cool.  However, Subs is the next evolution, along with player controlled Fletcher Class destroyers with Mark I radar...

[Arlo]

Ok, lets talk about submarines in Aces High. Lets talk about submarines in any combat MMO that features, first and foremost, air combat with tanks and fleets a close second. Lets talk about the difference between that and a submarine simulation.

We all know that Aces High offers an element of quick combat. In some instances it isn't so quick (bomber runs). It offers an arena environment capable of providing constant action to hundreds of players. The environment doesn't really lend itself to the nature of a submarine simulation. Adding mini-subs that spawn off ports would be very arcade like compared to a well designed submarine simulation.

Those of us familiar with submarine simulations such as Silent Hunter 4 know that the simulation does not just involve spawning where enemy ships are already within periscope range (on a sunny smooth sea, for that matter). It involves a series of patrols. Finding the enemy is just as much a challenge as engaging them. You run on the surface until you have to dive. You make use of radar on the surface and sonar submerged. You sail through squalls as much as clear seas. Even when the encounter begins it involves setting up a run, programming the torpedoes via your TDC (torpedo data computer), firing your spread then (if enemy combat ships are part of the mix) diving and hiding while your crew reloads. For any true submarine simulation enthusiast, anything short of this experience is anathema.

Now, lets say that Dale and co. want to add subs in just that manner - as a simulation that compared to everything modeled to fly or roll on wheels or tracks. The amount of modeling and programming must be staggering (more so than the environment update I'm willing to bet). It would be much more complex than, say, adding operational torps on destroyers, I presume.

Is that really what you want HTC to devote itself to for the next, I dunno, three years or more? In the end will it be something that attracts sub simmers to the game (when they already have highly detailed submarine simulations to play offline - where such a simulation thrives)?

Mini subs attached to ports? May as well just program some slow moving periscope spawns that play like:

[Mister Fork]

Ok, lets talk about submarines in Aces High. Lets talk about submarines in any combat MMO that features, first and foremost, air combat with tanks and fleets a close second. Lets talk about the difference between that and a submarine simulation.

We all know that Aces High offers an element of quick combat. In some instances it isn't so quick (bomber runs). It offers an arena environment capable of providing constant action to hundreds of players. The environment doesn't really lend itself to the nature of a submarine simulation. Adding mini-subs that spawn off ports would be very arcade like compared to a well designed submarine simulation.

<snip>
Mini subs attached to ports? May as well just program some slow moving periscope spawns that play like:

We need to thinking outside the box Arlo. You're thinking about integrating subs the same way you would try to integrate Silent Hunter into Chuck Yeager's Air Combat. It's oil and water.  Won't work - we need to think how Dale and Doug did it with other slow moving player-controlled vehicles.  Tanks.

I would think like vehicles, integrating subs with spawn points are key to its success.  No one would try and do a base raid in a tank if you drove your Sherman 4 hours to the closest base to be popped by a JagD camping just outside their base within seconds of a tank battle.  That's why spawn points are an important implementation feature for gameplay. Submarines should be treated exactly the same way.  You should be allowed to spawn your sub in a position that gets you to action within 10-20 minutes if you need to hunt or minutes if an enemy CV group is just off port. It would also make players think-twice about parking a CV just off the coast.

To counter subs, you need to add Destroyers - who would also have spawn points that would counter sub spawn points to you can get to action in 10-20 minutes of sailing. No different than we have spawn points for tanks/vehicles that are strategically close to one another to allow tank battles to occur. Or maps with tank towns.

Not only is it doable, it would add some very cool dynamics (and huge new player numbers) to the game - and we're not talking about adding an extra 10 players a night...

If word got out that Aces High added subs and destroyers we're talking about potentially adding thousands of extra players... who would also up an aircraft or tank once in a while like I up a tank once in a while (my first love is flying).  But like most Aces High pilots, we love ALL aspects of WWII gameplay.