Why so much animosity?

[germ]

There's more complaining than combat these days, sneaky or otherwise..  quit whining and play. Same damn stupid arguments I've read for the past 5 years. 

[molybdenum]

Go ahead and sit on the sidelines and pout, but I do not see HTC changing this.  Too many like the addition and only a handful seem to dislike it.

We seem to have different peer groups. Everyone I am still in contact with from AH3 hates it. (You're still not addressing my points and questions, btw, just avoiding them by casting invalid aspersions on what I liked to do in-game).

Don't think this will be picked up on, but here's an idea...

The BB crowd here is not necessarily a reflection of the AH community as a whole. Whereas the community as a whole, by definition, is. The GV dar is such a divisive product that, just maybe, HT could send out an e-mail to all subscribers asking their opinion on the dar? Nothing complicated: just a "good, bad, or don't care" would suffice. That would give HT comparative clarity on what people really think about this newest addition to the game and hopefully inform whatever choices he chooses to make in the future.

[100Coogn]

There's more complaining than combat these days, sneaky or otherwise..  quit whining and play. Same damn stupid arguments I've read for the past 5 years. 

Agreed.
Pretty sure a lot of folks was sneaking in WWII, instead of getting their bellybutton shot.

Coogan

[The Fugitive]

Agreed.
Pretty sure a lot of folks was sneaking in WWII, instead of getting their bellybutton shot.

Coogan

The difference is that when you got your @zz shot off in a war you were done, here we get to return again and again.

People play this game for action. the less action the less people we are going to have. That has been proven out over time. As more and more people leave due to no action, and less and less people join due to the difficulty in getting started, we WILL continue to drop in numbers. 

[100Coogn]

The difference is that when you got your @zz shot off in a war you were done, here we get to return again and again.

People play this game for action. the less action the less people we are going to have. That has been proven out over time. As more and more people leave due to no action, and less and less people join due to the difficulty in getting started, we WILL continue to drop in numbers.

Let me put it this way.
Play "A" doesn't play at all on a Friday.  Does anyone miss him/her?
Now on Saturday Player "A" decides to run around in a tank and hide.  Did that really hurt anyone?

BTW I'm player "B" and this is getting old.

Coogan

[molybdenum]

1) I disagree.  GV's have always skulked around.  They would be foolish to drive boldly in the open without disabling ordnance or air cover during an attack.  This is not because of the addition of GV dar, it has always been that way.
2) What you are really asking is "why can't I up a vehicle and let them guess if it's an NOE plane or a vehicle instead of them knowing exactly that it is a vehicle and that the vehicle is in this 2-3 square mile area."

1) There was more skulking in the GV dar era before I unsubscribed, and the "invisible GV" comments on this BB suggest that that continues. Of course I don't know, but the rash of complaints about "invisible GVs" and the comparative ease with which they can be found now (unless they hide!) strongly suggests they're having to hide vs fight.
Pre-GV dar era, when the v97th tried to take a base with GVs, we didn't skulk--we headed directly to target because the longer it was flashing, the more likely a bad guy with bombs would guess that we were GVs and find and bomb us. That's less viable of an option now.

2) Yes. There's more to it than that, but yes. That was part of the "strategy" aspect of the game that I loved and is gone now.

[popeye]

Pre-GV dar era, when the v97th tried to take a base with GVs, we didn't skulk--we headed directly to target because the longer it was flashing, the more likely a bad guy with bombs would guess that we were GVs and find and bomb us. That's less viable of an option now.

It seems to me that GVdar does nothing to change the effectiveness of a direct assault.  When you get to the town and start shooting, it doesn't matter whether there is GVdar or not.  In fact, GVdar would be an advantage for the attackers, since it would give away defending GVs before the "end sortie" went red.

[molybdenum]

It seems to me that GVdar does nothing to change the effectiveness of a direct assault.  When you get to the town and start shooting, it doesn't matter whether there is GVdar or not.  In fact, GVdar would be an advantage for the attackers, since it would give away defending GVs before the "end sortie" went red.

Ah, but that ignores the "get to town" part, which generally takes 7-10 minutes. If anyone is doing anything at the base to which the town is attached, once a GV spawns in, bad guys are instantly alerted. And it is that 7-10 minute window that slow and vulnerable GVs need in order to have a chance to accomplish their objective.

Someone is likely to say "So why go it alone? Get a crew together. Bring some fighter cover! Even if you don't take the base, we got a fight out of it! Right?"

If AH had a lot more players that'd be the best option. If the squad I was in had a lot of players that were on at the same time, it would still be the best option. But we didn't. And AH doesn't. So being sneaky and clever was the best path to success. I'm not complaining that circumstances required this--strategy is my sweet spot--but the GV dar is just pissing off more and more players, and as numbers continue to dwindle, coordinated efforts like that are more and more unlikely to happen.

It's a pretty safe guess that the GV dar was meant to induce the kind of raging battle that everyone loves. Even the 49ers! I'm not in a position to know it it's being successful in that realm--though it's a pretty safe guess that it's not--but it's alienating a lot of people who have been playing AH a lot of years. How can this be a good thing?

[-ammo-]

Why is there so much animosity against those who get their fun from sneaking largely or wholly undefended bases?  When the base flashes go stop them.

The funny thing about this to me is that most of those complaining don't care if a base is taken or not.

I was never much into taking bases but back in the day when I played for score/rank you had to get enough captures to get your score up and that often required a solo base take effort.  I admit that occasionally my heart was pumping wondering if opposition would appear to ruin my plan.  Yes, actual excitement over sneaking a base unopposed.  Imagine that.

I also remember the days of NOE as the modus operandi in base capture.  Of course the argument against it was you couldn't mount a defensive force fast enough to stop it.  Big deal.  With the loss of NOE we also lost the circumstance of running into one accidently.  I remember the day I was cruising along in my A8 when I spotted 10-15 escorted J87's NOE over the waters of Mindy (what a turkey shoot) or the day I killed 8 of 9 NOE Lancs on Baltic.

If trying to sneak around without opposition is how someone gets their fun it should be encouraged.  After all, more players than fewer is ultimately better for all no matter how they find their fun.

You know better.  It's human nature for the entitled.

[scott66]

I'll stop resupping when they pry the M3 steering wheel from my cold dead hands... I get plenty of air to air kills and I suck

[save]

Some maps promotes fights, even the avoiding types get into the turmoil after a while on the outskirts.
The best maps are the one's that start with a 3-way fight.

[eddiek]

The animosity is almost amusing.  One GV proponent claims they just want a chance to reach their objective undetected.  That seems to counterproductive to what GV dar, and this game in general, is supposed to be about.  That's my opinion at least.  But to each his own.  If that is what he calls fun and he enjoys, I hope he finds a way to achieve that. 
The animosity I've seen in almost every thread on this subject appears to be coming from the GV crowd.  "Bomb****s" is the favorite term to use.  Haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments from the aircraft guys, mainly comments on the GV guys hiding and evading contact.
My very oversimplified suggestion is:  If you don't want the "bomb****s" coming after you and trying to kill you, stay away from the air bases.  Stick to attacking GV bases.  You will still probably see aircraft coming in and trying to kill you, but not many, certainly not as many as when you spawn in to attack an airbase.
I've read all the threads, and I cannot fathom how one can play a game that has aircraft, ground vehicles, boats, etc.....and get upset at the prospect of aircraft being able to locate and kill you.  That is part of the game, the main attraction for many, fighting against others and hopefully achieving the kills.  AH has always, since I have played starting back in 2000-01, been a game where you find yourself doing battle against players in all the available vehicles. 
This "I don't want the aircraft to be able to locate me" has been going on for several years, going back to when someone, can't remember his ID, came onto the BBS whining about losing a Tiger or Tiger II to an aircraft.  It grew from there, icon ranges were reduced, some players felt that was the wrong direction, or they had been reduced too much......and they left.
Along comes AH3, with trees galore, which pleases the GV crowd, but places the aircraft guys at a huge disadvantage (yeah, guys in Wirbs or M16's sitting right off the runway, invisible to the planes taking off places them at a unfair disadvantage).  HT implements the GV dar, which mainly lets you know the GV is out there "somewhere"......and the GV diehards have a fit, some threatening to quit or actually doing so. 
I think bustr is trying to fix some of the things in the terrains that have skewed gameplay so out of whack, such as the excessive amount of trees around the bases, trees on base (I hope he is considering doing away with those if HT allows such), and fewer available spots for GV's to snipe at fields with relative impunity.  Lord knows the guy is putting in a ton of time with these terrains, and I for one appreciate his efforts.
The game's not perfect, never has been, never will be.  It's a work in progress, 18 years in the making.  I have fun when I get home after 4 or 5 weeks on jobs and get to log in and play.  If you aren't having fun, take a break, try other games, try no games, whatever works for you.   But don't come on the BBS being drama queens, making accusations that HT doesn't care about you, that he is out to get the GV crowd. 



RANT MODE OFF

[Dace]

The animosity is almost amusing.  One GV proponent claims they just want a chance to reach their objective undetected.  That seems to counterproductive to what GV dar, and this game in general, is supposed to be about.  That's my opinion at least.  But to each his own.  If that is what he calls fun and he enjoys, I hope he finds a way to achieve that. 
The animosity I've seen in almost every thread on this subject appears to be coming from the GV crowd.  "Bomb****s" is the favorite term to use.  Haven't seen a lot of derogatory comments from the aircraft guys, mainly comments on the GV guys hiding and evading contact.
My very oversimplified suggestion is:  If you don't want the "bomb****s" coming after you and trying to kill you, stay away from the air bases.  Stick to attacking GV bases.  You will still probably see aircraft coming in and trying to kill you, but not many, certainly not as many as when you spawn in to attack an airbase.
I've read all the threads, and I cannot fathom how one can play a game that has aircraft, ground vehicles, boats, etc.....and get upset at the prospect of aircraft being able to locate and kill you.  That is part of the game, the main attraction for many, fighting against others and hopefully achieving the kills.  AH has always, since I have played starting back in 2000-01, been a game where you find yourself doing battle against players in all the available vehicles. 
This "I don't want the aircraft to be able to locate me" has been going on for several years, going back to when someone, can't remember his ID, came onto the BBS whining about losing a Tiger or Tiger II to an aircraft.  It grew from there, icon ranges were reduced, some players felt that was the wrong direction, or they had been reduced too much......and they left.
Along comes AH3, with trees galore, which pleases the GV crowd, but places the aircraft guys at a huge disadvantage (yeah, guys in Wirbs or M16's sitting right off the runway, invisible to the planes taking off places them at a unfair disadvantage).  HT implements the GV dar, which mainly lets you know the GV is out there "somewhere"......and the GV diehards have a fit, some threatening to quit or actually doing so. 
I think bustr is trying to fix some of the things in the terrains that have skewed gameplay so out of whack, such as the excessive amount of trees around the bases, trees on base (I hope he is considering doing away with those if HT allows such), and fewer available spots for GV's to snipe at fields with relative impunity.  Lord knows the guy is putting in a ton of time with these terrains, and I for one appreciate his efforts.
The game's not perfect, never has been, never will be.  It's a work in progress, 18 years in the making.  I have fun when I get home after 4 or 5 weeks on jobs and get to log in and play.  If you aren't having fun, take a break, try other games, try no games, whatever works for you.   But don't come on the BBS being drama queens, making accusations that HT doesn't care about you, that he is out to get the GV crowd. 



RANT MODE OFF

This!

[ghi]

Maybe should recruit more chicks , the environments dominated by one sex only ,  like  military for men or nurses in hospitals for women  are uni polar energetic charged by same repulsive yin or yang energies resulting in conflict. In the beginning was the word, carries  vibratory energy , a state of consciousness transmitted to the receiver ,the MA environment is like Dr. Masaru Emoto tests on freezing water exposed to different words, kind words only  generated symmetric harmonic crystals ; https://youtu.be/tAvzsjcBtx8  I see the the game room like like this tests with few hundreds individuals looked in same room and exposed to  "You have been killed",  "wounded" ,"death",  "kills".  I would change this "rewarding" label words with  something milder for people minds;  negative words generate negative perspectives.   

[JimmyC]

Chill winston