How do you fight what you cannot see?

[Devil 505]

I don’t GV but I believe the GV boys are welcome in the MA sandbox. They add dimension and spice to the game.

I personally leave them alone for the most part until they show up on my airfield and start shooting me while I take off. Then I’ll dust off the trusty D-40, get eggs, and will travel up to two sectors to rain 500lb terror on them in groups of three.

My biggest issue is the icon imbalance. Specifically a couple things...

1. If I can’t see an enemy tank till inside 1k, I shouldn’t be able to see a friendly tank until the same distance. Not cool for an enemy to be maneuvering yet drag you over that wirble he knew was there the whole time.

2. I think GVs should have their airplane icon reduced to the same distance as planes see them. Mostly because I don’t like being main gunned and I think it should be a bit more difficult to pull that gamey stuff off. The exception being anti-aircraft chassis’s. They should have longer icons but trees should yield my icon nearly invisible if they’re parked under one. The same as they’re nearly invisible to me.

3. Not related to icons but still bugs me is that a tank is instantly fixed and rearmed with a load of supplies but I have to land and sit on the riearm pad for 30 seconds just to reload with no damage repair whatsoever. Not fun to smoke a wirb only to have him firing again before I can get out of gun range.

4. As to tanks hiding in bushes, perhaps kicking a small cloud of dirt up that that lingers for a second or two would be a helpful solution. Thus allowing the tank to hide until it goes offensive. As a former artilleryman, I can tell you we kicked up some serious dust every time we fired those 105s in a direct fire capacity (aka muzzle low, full charge, and target in sight).

Like I said. I truly appreciate the GVs even if I don’t use them. And I know we need to balance game play so they have a chance. But, in all honesty, there’s a reason why armored divisions liked low ceilings and bad weather. It allowed them to operate without the constant fear of enemy close air support.

100% agree.

[Traveler]

You can go into the Training Arena and learn to use the gv's. Also, there are lots of veteran gv’ers that can show you how to use a tank. It does not take long to find an enemy tank.
Most gv bases have a ridge they peak over and only expose their turret so they keep their hull down. Always check the ridges first. Just learn the basics.

 

Learning how to fight GV's is not what the OP is complaining about.  The fact remains that the GV has become invisible and that is just not historically accurate.  Historical accuracy was once very important to the creators of this game and they spent a lot of effort to ensure accuracy,  but looking at it now, I'm guessing not so much now. 

[lunatic1]

its funny the bomb****s complained about no seeing the gvs so hiTech gave them GVDar and they still can't see them and they still complaining

[waystin2]

its funny the bomb****s complained about no seeing the gvs so hiTech gave them GVDar and they still can't see them and they still complaining

You know what I fly Lun.  I don't kill GV's with bombs.  I hunt them with the Hurri II with cannon low and slow.  I still have trouble...

[Vraciu]

its funny the bomb****s complained about no seeing the gvs so hiTech gave them GVDar and they still can't see them and they still complaining

That’s not GV Dar.   Just sayin. 

[eddiek]

I've been around long enough to remember the complaints leading up to HT reducing the icon ranges.  Lots of complaints from GV guys losing perk tanks to aircraft, icon range should be reduced, etc. 
The reasoning was that they felt a pilot shouldn't be able to spot a tank from above a certain altitude.  I agree to an extent.......the icon range was 6K at that time, which meant you could ID a GV from around 18K feet above the ground.  All in the interest of "realism".
What was left unsaid was that without binoculars, they wouldn't be able to ID plane type and distance either.  So the pendulum swung WAY over in favor of the GV crowd.  But it was AH2, trees were more sparse, and you could still find GV's if air to ground was your thing.
Now, with AH3 and the additional trees and bushes (very out of scale IMO, but that is another story), the GV's have the ability to hide up on a ridge or hill and snipe fields from beyond icon range.  Even in a field gun, oftentimes you cannot see them, only a flash and a tracer arcing towards you.  So, again IMO, more balance is needed.
I agree with LilMak, especially points 2, 3, and 4. 
GV guys should not be able to ID an enemy plane until he is able to ID them also.  I would add that I think once a GV fires, his icon should pop up, for like 60 seconds or so, regardless of whether his engine is running or not, whether he is moving or not.  Once you fire, you are a target also.  Just my opinion.
GV tracks would be an interesting addition, for realism and gameplay.  Dunno how HT could code them in without causing a frame rate hit, but having them only extend a certain distance, like the offline airshow smoke, would be one thought.  Say, 400 yards and fading over perhaps 2-3 minutes?
Bustr is working on terrains like crazy, and adding GV friendly features even though he has stated he is not a huge GV fan.  Hopefully the open spaces surrounding bases will improve things.
I do wish the base defenses would engage GV's more than they do now.  I can remember getting too close to a base and taking fire from WAY out there......now the base defenses seem to ignore GV's and blast away at aircraft 6-10K above the field.  Seeing the autoguns trying to hold GV's at bay until a live person can get in a GV or plane and mount a defense would be a welcome change, too.
I can understand the GV guys' frustrations, but only to an extent.  But they have had things their way so long, and moves to rebalance things causes some of them to quit?  That's just childish and immature. 
Offer alternative solutions, try to reach compromises, acknowledge that the person(s) expressing an opposing view just might have a point......but to just threaten to quit?  Come on, folks.....get real.

[Dundee]

Come on guys.

How can we defend a base when we cannot see the enemy coming in?  This invisible GV crap is really turning me off.  I just want to log in, find the enemy and fight them.  I have very little interest in playing hunt the needle in a haystack.  More and more hunt GVs than fight planes in my time zone.

Come on Hitech, you have got to see that this is fundamentally wrong!

Well you should see it from the ground level....... trees, trees, and more trees. They were put in the game to make it hard for GV's to move around.....but at the same time it made it great cover for eluding aircraft. The changes made to the GV role in this game have change so much that it has left a bad taste in our mouth as well, so quit your complaining. I don't dog fight so I woun't be upping a fighter to massage your ego either. You already have GV dar I guess a visit to the eye doctor or a better monitor might help your game play. But changing the game to suit just the furballers has hurt this game more that anything else.

[Dundee]

Learning how to fight GV's is not what the OP is complaining about.  The fact remains that the GV has become invisible and that is just not historically accurate.  Historical accuracy was once very important to the creators of this game and they spent a lot of effort to ensure accuracy,  but looking at it now, I'm guessing not so much now.

It's not that accurate or we would have real low clouds and sometimes fog

[bustr]

If Hitech made this happen there would be no ambushes for very long or hiding.

I listen to players in a lurking manor to understand how terrain is used and features over come. The firing flame muzzle flash and then tracer are not seen in any meaningful way by about 50% of the players I listen to including air combat only players. Yes it might be a matter of tweaking graphics but, it shouldn't be that complicated just to be competitive. GVing is an easy way for players with less powerful machines to have fun and be willing to pay $14.95. When a tank or cannon fires, it should give itself away to even the weakest PC. I listen to players complaining a lot about invisible tanks that you don't see them firing by those around the person who just got killed. That meant at least one of them was looking in the direction of the round fired. And it has been admitted that some bushes you can shut down in and you become invisible to other players. I traced one back once only by allowing several storchs to be shot out from under me until I could just barely see the tracer of a 37mm. The muzzle flash was almost none existent. At this time the MG firing from tanks is very reliable to give away it's location. The main gun firing, I watch and listen to players waste time trying to see the tracer or muzzel flash for up to 6 rounds at times for some which turns into complaints about invisibility enhancements like happen in other games with software help.

Some players are masters at using the trees and bushes to hide and that was a standard practice in WW2. Once the main gun opened up, it was a beacon for return fire or fighter bombers to end that tank.

[TDeacon]

Come on guys.

How can we defend a base when we cannot see the enemy coming in?  This invisible GV crap is really turning me off.  I just want to log in, find the enemy and fight them.  I have very little interest in playing hunt the needle in a haystack.  More and more hunt GVs than fight planes in my time zone.

Come on Hitech, you have got to see that this is fundamentally wrong!

So you are saying you can't find a single plane to fight in your time zone?  Sounds hard to believe. 

On the other hand, if you are saying you can't find a GV to fight, you need to learn some in-game skills.  With even average in-game skills, GV-versus-plane is hugely unbalanced in favor of the latter, and that includes finding them.  They are actually too easy to find now, which is why I haven't played in over 6 months. 

[FESS67]

So you are saying you can't find a single plane to fight in your time zone?  Sounds hard to believe. 

On the other hand, if you are saying you can't find a GV to fight, you need to learn some in-game skills.  With even average in-game skills, GV-versus-plane is hugely unbalanced in favor of the latter, and that includes finding them.  They are actually too easy to find now, which is why I haven't played in over 6 months.

Sir,  Come fly my time zone.  There are 7 to 10 players a side.  Lucky if you have 3 a side in planes and the others in GVs or sleeping in the tower.  Of those in the planes there are usually milk running in buffs and it is virtually impossible to be in the right place at the right time to intercept them.  That leaves the air to ground aspect which is like looking for a needle in a haystack.


I call BS on your comment about GVs being easy to find.  Look at the other threads, look at the comments from other people, GV visibility is an issue.  The question we need to answer is what can be done about it whilst maintaining balance for both sides of the divide?

[Traveler]

Sir,  Come fly my time zone.  There are 7 to 10 players a side.  Lucky if you have 3 a side in planes and the others in GVs or sleeping in the tower.  Of those in the planes there are usually milk running in buffs and it is virtually impossible to be in the right place at the right time to intercept them.  That leaves the air to ground aspect which is like looking for a needle in a haystack.


I call BS on your comment about GVs being easy to find.  Look at the other threads, look at the comments from other people, GV visibility is an issue.  The question we need to answer is what can be done about it whilst maintaining balance for both sides of the divide?

He said the last time he played the game was 6 months ago, six months ago you could see the GV's, that is not true now.

[Shuffler]

When will they add the pinto to the game.

[Vulcan]

I call BS on your comment about GVs being easy to find.  Look at the other threads, look at the comments from other people, GV visibility is an issue.  The question we need to answer is what can be done about it whilst maintaining balance for both sides of the divide?

I will often up a Yak-9T and fly CAS with our GVers - killing the odd panzer for myself. GVs are not that hard to find.

[Traveler]

I will often up a Yak-9T and fly CAS with our GVers - killing the odd panzer for myself. GVs are not that hard to find.

In the open, sure, but in the trees with the engine off, you are not killing my of those.