"Pantelleria, 1943" scenario-design topic

[Brooke]

numerous targets for the allies to split forces and strike at will

Allies and axis have approximately the same geographical distribution of targets.  In both cases, at least two separate concentrations.

and then ditch or bail to airspawn and start again.

Ditching and bailing will give the enemy points, same as shooting the plane down.

Your comment seems to apply about equally to both sides.

Oh and lose your island so that you can I assume fight an extended engagement from the mainland...yep nothing wrong here.

The "Setup" section of the writeup explains why the loss of the island is in the event.

So fleets ...

Answered in an above post.

Next for bombers is that "loss" +-1 for each plane in the formation or just +-1 for just the trio?

Shoot down a bomber aircraft, get 1 point for your side (so 3 for trio).

Good catch on the loss part as the formula currently would give only 1 point for ditch of a trio instead of 3 points for ditch of trio.  I will fix it.  Thank you for pointing that out.

So for the capture of the island is that 25 points or 25 targets?

As mentioned in a previous post, 25 targets (75 points).  I do need to write that part in the rules more clearly -- it's not worded well currently.

Where is the map for when/if the island is lost?

One map covers it all.

I'll continue to ask questions as I run into em. thanks in advance.

Only a minority of your post is insulting or derisive (no thank you for that part), and the rest of it is civil (thank you for that part  ).  You can talk about stuff you think is bad in the design while still being civil -- you just did it several times -- and that is totally welcome here.   

[asterix]

...
and if I see this right every field on the Island is a valid target? and you have 11 fields for the allies to hit and only 6 for the axis to hit not counting the unmovable fleets.

Sicily has 11 fields, Pantelleria has only 2, A33 and P72, unless I am wrong here. Names on the map or something would not hurt.

[asterix]

Maybe leave out the spread out axis task groups and concentrate on the island (including having some ships around it). Maybe leave out the JU88 as well and give allied more bombers. Have Luftwaffe trying to inflict heavy losses to allied aircraft before they bomb their target, instead of ships. Maybe make it more about the surrender of Pantelleria rather than capture. The combat area seems kind of spread out IMHO.

So basically the last scenario again?

Not exactly because there would be a single concentrated target area, it would not be a high altitude fight. I watched the video in the following topic http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,393599.0.html and got the impression that the battle for Pantelleria was about allied forces pounding the island as axis tried to defend their home base with not much help from other islands as communication got disrupted by the bombing. Current setup seems more like nuisance raids or Kuban scenario where both sides trade blows at each other.

[perdue3]

Vudu has a good point with the objectives. The Axis have a very obvious target, something that will not be debated on the Allied side as to what should be defended. The Allies will have to bomb Pantelleria (another problem that will be outlined later) and any other field they so choose. This is a problem because of numbers. We just can't supply every sector with aircraft.

Pantelleria is a problem only because the Axis can't be based there. We have to defend it, yet the Allies are an equal distance from it at T+0. A33 should be a base for at least the C.202's.

[Brooke]

Pantelleria is the little island in the middle, with a33 and p72.  Sicilian airfields (a26, a28, etc.) and North African air fields (a3, a54, etc.) were not targets in the battle.

[Brooke]

Each side has a couple of target areas to deal with as it sees fit.

One side will have Pantelleria and, at a separate location, a collection of ships.

The other side will have a collection of ships and, at a separate location, another collection of ships.

We liked both sides having two locations much better than both sides having one location.

[BFOOT1]

Just save me tail end charlie in JG53

After much tutoring from Devil505, I think I got my G6 template closer to what he was trying to show me.

Does this mean I get a 190 profile

[Brooke]

A33 should be a base for at least the C.202's.

In the real battle, the axis didn't launch anything of significance from Pantelleria.  It was allies launching from North Africa and axis launching from Sicily (and to a lesser extent Sardinia, Corsica, and Italy), so that's how we have it here.

If history were that the axis was hanging out over Pantelleria, waiting for for the allied attack to show up (which wasn't how it went), it should be all the axis fighters based at Pantelleria in order to replicate that.

Also, regardless of any of the above, C.202's alone against a bomber assault would be an ineffective suicide mission and would suck for c.2 pilots.

Still, defending fighters can get to Pantelleria before attacking bombers.  It's just that both side's fighters can get to Pantelleria at the same time, just like if in reality they launched from North Africa and Sicily at first light and both headed to Pantelleria.

[Devil 505]

If history were that the axis was hanging out over Pantelleria, waiting for for the allied attack to show up (which wasn't how it went), it should be all the axis fighters based at Pantelleria in order to replicate that.

As long as the Allies cannot launch planes from the island if they capture it, I have no problem with not basing any Axis planes there when they hold it.

[perdue3]

As long as the Allies cannot launch planes from the island if they capture it, I have no problem with not basing any Axis planes there when they hold it.

Agreed. The Allies should not be able to make use of the airfield if we cannot.

[Brooke]

As long as the Allies cannot launch planes from the island if they capture it

Absolutely.

It's the same for both sides.

No squadrons are based there, and so there is no launching of fresh planes from there.

If your side owns it, you can land and refuel there (if you are gutsy enough to risk it).  That's it.

[Guppy35]

Does this mean I get a 190 profile

I only have an A8 profile. No A5

[Brooke]

Version 2 is up.  Refresh browser to see latest after you load it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSxtStrZ1SSalXUh263OajXVVeE1AIhQY1DJDAXI4MIRAYj1oFPYZjwIWfPz4FoErqQ0KBLbQrvoMT9/pub

Changes:

-- Fixed Frame Score formula so that ditched/bailed/etc. bomber formation is 3 points, not 1.
-- Made wording of Timely Capture and Inflicting Heavy Losses more clear.
-- Added notation under map pointing out what Pantelleria is.
-- Reworded things to make more clear where fresh planes are available and that you can land and refuel at Pantelleria if your side owns it (but no fresh planes from Pantelleria).

[Vudu15]

Pantelleria is the little island in the middle, with a33 and p72.  Sicilian airfields (a26, a28, etc.) and North African air fields (a3, a54, etc.) were not targets in the battle.

I'm a goon and thought Sicily was Pantelleria....so the allies cant attack the fields on Sicily until they take Pantelleria? Am I reading that correctly?

Also I see the Spit 8s still on the board, while some units may have had them I think they add an unfair advantage to the allies in terms of added range +-30mins at full power and increased performance at all alts with WEP. While we are kinda tagged with having wonderful planes with beanbag guns (202s)

[Devil 505]

I'm a goon and thought Sicily was Pantelleria....so the allies cant attack the fields on Sicily until they take Pantelleria? Am I reading that correctly?

The bases in Tunisia or on Sicily are not targets. Just the base on Pantelleria and ships.