Latest "radar" abomination

[Ciaphas]

Another non-starter for bomber pilots imo. At best it means we have to up further back so we won't be on partial climbout when we hit the front lines and get IDed for what we are (and pounced on; and the same bomber hunters who pounced when full dar was enabled will now just patrol at high alt along those aforementioned front lines).
That's more time out of my life gone for a game that just got more arcad-y again.

You mean people would perform milk runs like they did in real life?

Thats what I was hoping for


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[Ciaphas]

What happens when the poor goon pilot is trying to fly in troops?

He better know what he is doing


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[Wiley]

You would still need to have someone within iconrange to see the bombers on the map

Yes.  But let me walk you through a typical North American morning/afternoon strat bomber hunt.

The fighter guy looks at the map.  He sees the bardar showing 3 enemy aircraft split between both of his country's fronts.  He also sees a bardar in a sector somewhere between 1 and 3 sectors behind the front in enemy territory.  Based on experience, he surmises that is likely to be a singleton bomber grabbing before it heads in to bomb his country's strats.  So, he takes off in something with a ton of fuel and high alt performance.  A late model P47 or a Ta152 are the two best tools for the job.

The fighter guy grabs to ludicrous alt (30k or so) as he watches the enemy bardar to see what it does.  When the enemy bardar begins coming toward friendly territory, the fighter guy moves to intercept.  Based on the friendly radar circles, the fighter guy can quite often get a pretty good idea where the bomber is in the sector because if the bomber isn't on dar, you know where he isn't.  Heading toward the area the bomber is likely to be in, the fighter guy has to scan the sky to find the bomber, trying to be ahead of him and see him asap to begin jockeying for position to get the best pass on him.

With the radar setup that was in use last night, there's no need to scan.  You could just patrol the area and watch your clipboard until the icon shows.

Wiley.

[Oldman731]

With the radar setup that was in use last night, there's no need to scan.  You could just patrol the area and watch your clipboard until the icon shows.

That assumes you fly close enough to the approaching bombers.  Simply orbiting in a sector doesn't guarantee that.

- oldman

[Wiley]

That assumes you fly close enough to the approaching bombers.  Simply orbiting in a sector doesn't guarantee that.

- oldman

Yes.  But when you're hunting the bomber, unless it's a sector that is completely davoid of friendly radar, you've usually got a much smaller area to patrol.  Many sectors are 3/4 covered by a friendly dar circle.  If it's not flashing, you know that bomber is in the remaining 1/4 of the sector.  That is NOT a large area to drag a 12,000 yard diameter circle of instant detection through.

Wiley.

[TWCAxew]

Yes.  But let me walk you through a typical North American morning/afternoon strat bomber hunt.

The fighter guy looks at the map.  He sees the bardar showing 3 enemy aircraft split between both of his country's fronts.  He also sees a bardar in a sector somewhere between 1 and 3 sectors behind the front in enemy territory.  Based on experience, he surmises that is likely to be a singleton bomber grabbing before it heads in to bomb his country's strats.  So, he takes off in something with a ton of fuel and high alt performance.  A late model P47 or a Ta152 are the two best tools for the job.

The fighter guy grabs to ludicrous alt (30k or so) as he watches the enemy bardar to see what it does.  When the enemy bardar begins coming toward friendly territory, the fighter guy moves to intercept.  Based on the friendly radar circles, the fighter guy can quite often get a pretty good idea where the bomber is in the sector because if the bomber isn't on dar, you know where he isn't.  Heading toward the area the bomber is likely to be in, the fighter guy has to scan the sky to find the bomber, trying to be ahead of him and see him asap to begin jockeying for position to get the best pass on him.

With the radar setup that was in use last night, there's no need to scan.  You could just patrol the area and watch your clipboard until the icon shows.

Wiley.

We'll pretty much EU prime time.

And I do not agree. The range of the pilot radar is 6k the same as the huge red icon that would float above the bombers head. I fail to see what has changed in this scenario unless you mean flying upside down to spot the bomber if it happens to be below you?

The bomber hunter would have upped regardless of this change to hunt the bomber.

[hitech]

Yes.  But when you're hunting the bomber, unless it's a sector that is completely davoid of friendly radar, you've usually got a much smaller area to patrol.  Many sectors are 3/4 covered by a friendly dar circle.  If it's not flashing, you know that bomber is in the remaining 1/4 of the sector.  That is NOT a large area to drag a 12,000 yard diameter circle of instant detection through.

Wiley.

You still need to scan for dots. Dots show well before icons.

HiTech

[Wiley]

We'll pretty much EU prime time.

And I do not agree. The range of the pilot radar is 6k the same as the huge red icon that would float above the bombers head. I fail to see what has changed in this scenario unless you mean flying upside down to spot the bomber if it happens to be below you?

Well, that's the thing.  You're generally scanning the most likely area for him to be.  He isn't always exactly where you think he is.  A fair bit of finding the guy is taking educated guesses.  When you guess right it looks like magic.  When you don't, you're quite often a ways out of position.  If things go spectacularly wrong, it's possible to miss seeing the guy's icon if you're looking too hard in the wrong direction.  With the dar the way it was last night, that would be much less of a concern.

You still need to scan for dots. Dots show well before icons.

HiTech

It's beneficial if you see him sooner, but it's not really needed.  Seeing him at dot range is the ideal.  10,000 yards vs 6,000.  But if you didn't see him against the background or whatever, 6,000 is still plenty of range to set up for him most of the time.

But if you're spending most of your time scanning from 12 to 3 o'clock and he happened to slip by at 5 o'clock low against a non-contrasting background 5000 yards behind you because you were a bit early, instead of you going further and further out of position until you realize you missed him, you get that dot on your clipboard showing him behind you and reverse.  Possibly without ever having seen the dot or icon.

Wiley.

[TWCAxew]

Sorry I am really trying to understand what would be the difference. If you can't see the red icon but you can see it on the map there is something lacking in your sa. You still would go to the same spots and look for dots Vs the map and red icons. The dots for bombers are really easy to see.

Lets just say for me it's the same and I won't change the way I fly

[Wiley]

Sorry I am really trying to understand what would be the difference. If you can't see the red icon but you can see it on the map there is something lacking in your sa.

That is exactly my point.  It closes a possible loophole in your SA.  It provides 6,000 yard autodetect, where before you had to see the dot or icon.

Wiley.

[Ciaphas]

What the enemy thinks I do




What happens occasionally to stay on course

[TWCAxew]

That is exactly my point.  It closes a possible loophole in your SA.  It provides 6,000 yard autodetect, where before you had to see the dot or icon.

Wiley.

I can see how it would affect the bombers SA but not the other way around. The bomber will be alerted if an enemy comes close while being in the sight. I also can see how it would affect someone flying out his SA ( no more getting killed by the one you did not see) I can see how it would affect ones SA in a fight since you can keep track of all enemies around you. However I still think this would change anything in this scenario for the average player. Sorry

[Ciaphas]

If your are flying using your CBM in a fight, you’re gonna crash and burn.


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[Wiley]

I can see how it would affect the bombers SA but not the other way around. The bomber will be alerted if an enemy comes close while being in the sight. I also can see how it would affect someone flying out his SA ( no more getting killed by the one you did not see) I can see how it would affect ones SA in a fight since you can keep track of all enemies around you. However I still think this would change anything in this scenario for the average player. Sorry

Well, the "average player" doesn't generally do what I'm talking about, so you're correct on that.

So you're saying you see every single bandit that comes within icon range of your plane?  How would you know if you missed a guy?  You wouldn't have seen him.

If your are flying using your CBM in a fight, you’re gonna crash and burn.


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Weekend afternoons if there's no good fight, I do it all the time if the strat raiders are active.

Wiley.

[Ciaphas]

Weekend afternoons if there's no good fight, I do it all the time if the strat raiders are active.

do you pay attention to the fight you are in or do you stare at your CBM during that entire fight?


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