88s

[Vinkman]

Intercepts don't really work at those distances. Too easy to get through. Also, the field is either lost or the capture failed without timely support for the GVs. A furball in the middle only helps by distracting the enemy, which only works if the enemy doesn't stick to their objectives required to defend/capture. If both sides agree to not care too much about the war.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. Mid-point is the minimum for an intercept. I Jug on a bombing run to take out the VH is very hard to stop once he's over the base. Then he's too high, and too fast in a dive to get him before drops. Best to fly and out and get him before he's over 10k. Then even if he dives to the deck and tries to streak in I have 1/2 a sector to chase him down and get him before he can get ords on target. Same with Buffs, you really want to get them out side the dar circle.
The Midpoint is usually between the radars so you can loiter and wait for field porkers.  Even at an efficiency fuel setting you can loiter at over 300 Mph. IF you catch sight of a climbing heavy fighter he's probably going 175 MPH.  It's easy bounce them. 

The previous point was that the uppers are often just headed to the spawn near their base to bomb your team mates that are spawning GVs in.  This is what creates a lot action in the field and base ack as you attempt to engage low fighters and A-20.  Where you will be shot at by the 88. ;-) 

[JimmyD3]

Boxers in a ring are fighters. One guy outside the ring throwing beer bottles is NOT a fighter nor is he a participant in the fight.

If you’re in an 88, you’re just throwing beer bottles.

You are entitled to your opinion Lilmak, not your facts. If someone is shooting at you in 88 or they damage your plane, wound you, or shoot you down, that is in fact fighting.  You may not like it, do it or want it, but that has nothing to do with the FACT.

[Slade]

You are entitled to your opinion Lilmak, not your facts. ...

Were 88's for air defense in WWII used for point-bank\less-than-1.5k sharp shooting or were they a longer range weapon? What are the facts on that?

EDIT: I am asking cause I could be wrong and want to know the facts.  I am not being sarcastic.

Thanks,

Slade

[JimmyD3]

While not an expert on the subject, what I have read indicates they were designed for Anti-Aircraft, specifically high altitude aircraft, but they were also used extensively for anti-tank guns.

[icepac]

Probably only when the left their engine on so they couldn't hear enemy coming.     

[Slade]

but they were also used extensively for anti-tank guns.

Yep and they were great tank killers I understand.

My context though is: Were 88's for air defense in WWII used for point-bank\less-than-1.5k sharp shooting or were they a longer range weapon? What are the facts on that?


Thanks,

Slade 

[asterix]

Yep and they were great tank killers I understand.

My context though is: Were 88's for air defense in WWII used for point-bank\less-than-1.5k sharp shooting or were they a longer range weapon? What are the facts on that?


Thanks,

Slade 

From https://books.google.ee/books?id=GuuOyzdx1UAC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=ww2+strafer+hit+by+flak+88&source=bl&ots=xGFfM1E4Hs&sig=flL2SxhwFGM1Y2syjKV5N9I1t1A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjRk6evtqneAhVn-SoKHUvbBXAQ6AEwG3oECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=ww2%20strafer%20hit%20by%20flak%2088&f=false page 59:
Evident on the spot was that low-altitude operations, including strafing, were subject to every air defence weapon in the enemy arsenal- aircraft and AAA from 88mm and even larger, down to machine pistols and handguns- and that anyone who said AAA guns of 88mm size were not threats to low-flying planes was an idiot.

Not my words.

[Ramesis]

Boxers in a ring are fighters. One guy outside the ring throwing beer bottles is NOT a fighter nor is he a participant in the fight.

If you’re in an 88, you’re just throwing beer bottles.

BUT Lil, the guy outside the ring will get arrested for throwing those bottles...

a gunner is NOT!

 

[DmonSlyr]

If I recall. Manned acks have the most kills of any fighter or tanker in the game. Before Hitech took them off the stats, you could easily see it. Manned acks should not be allowed at fighter or tank fields. You cannot battle against a manned ack. All acks outside of a CV should be computer. It makes the most sense. Manned acks are a cheap way to ruin sorties when the player should be forced to have to roll an aircraft or tank to defend the base. Manned acks provide no risk. In WW2 the risk was your own life. Not in AH. Lives don't matter. You are better off defending against vulchers in a Wirble than a manned ack. Manned acks are lazy gameplay that do more damage to keeping players logged on rather than if they weren't there at all. People would much rather die to a computer AAA than a manned ack when they are dive bombing a base. If a player in a manned ack blows your wing off right away after flying 15 minutes to Jabo the field. It's not really worth your time is it? At least with AAA you have the ability to drop your bombs and not get picked off with a 30mm on the first dive.

[Lusche]

If I recall. Manned acks have the most kills of any fighter or tanker in the game. Before Hitech took them off the stats, you could easily see it.

Manned acks haven't been taken off the stats.
Also, there's only one type of "manned gun" in the stats, whereas all kills by planes divide up onto 96 different models.
In tour 222 there were 56.148 air to air kills. "Ship Gun or Field" were credited with 6.693 kills of planes and you can bet that manned 5" kills made up the majority of them, with the 88" only coming in at last place.

[Vinkman]

If I recall. Manned acks have the most kills of any fighter or tanker in the game. Before Hitech took them off the stats, you could easily see it. Manned acks should not be allowed at fighter or tank fields. You cannot battle against a manned ack. All acks outside of a CV should be computer. It makes the most sense. Manned acks are a cheap way to ruin sorties when the player should be forced to have to roll an aircraft or tank to defend the base. Manned acks provide no risk. In WW2 the risk was your own life. Not in AH. Lives don't matter. You are better off defending against vulchers in a Wirble than a manned ack. Manned acks are lazy gameplay that do more damage to keeping players logged on rather than if they weren't there at all. People would much rather die to a computer AAA than a manned ack when they are dive bombing a base. If a player in a manned ack blows your wing off right away after flying 15 minutes to Jabo the field. It's not really worth your time is it? At least with AAA you have the ability to drop your bombs and not get picked off with a 30mm on the first dive.

-4

[LilMak]

You are entitled to your opinion Lilmak, not your facts. If someone is shooting at you in 88 or they damage your plane, wound you, or shoot you down, that is in fact fighting.  You may not like it, do it or want it, but that has nothing to do with the FACT.

The definition of a fight implies a conflict between opponents. That’s a fact. 88 taking pot shots does not fit that definition.

My biggest problem is this...I pay real money to have virtual fights (conflict). The player base is shrinking and we can’t spare any more. A player sitting in an 88 for 30 minutes and praying he gets lucky isn’t contributing to the game, or defense, or anything of significance. They’re just making noise. No matter how many times you jump up and down and cry “IT WAZ IN DA WARZ!!!” it changes nothing about the FACT that this is a game and you’re basically not part of it if you’re parked in an 88.

Puffy ack is already modeled. People despise it when it ruins a fight or takes their perks. Don’t need players to add to that.

[eddiek]

I'd rather face 88's firing at me, cause I can see the tracer coming up. 
It would seem the OP would or should be just as irritated at the 5' fire from the fleets..........those things don't show a tracer unless they are in HE mode, and they don't have to be continually fused by the operator like the 88's do.  And they fire in batteries of two guns, doubling the odds of getting you.
Either way, I do man the 88's from time to time, usually when it's too late to up a fighter to intercept buffs, or there is clearly a horde inbound and all you are gonna by upping a fighter is sacrifice yourself to pad someone's score sheet. 
Do I fire at fighters around a base I am defending? Sure I do.  Usually I limit that to when I see 2 or 3 or 4 fighters ganging up on a friendly.  If that makes folks upset, too bad.  I don't participate in the activity when I see several friendlies swarming an enemy, so if someone throwing a few flak bursts out there to make the gangers nervous, and maybe even damage one of them, I will do it.
Some folks will say that behavior is normal when you are trying to take a base, any means necessary is acceptable to achieve the goal.  But someone lobbing AA shells in their midst is just as acceptable in my eyes. 
In the end, it's just a game.

[ccvi]

I pay real money to have virtual fights (conflict).

I think you got that the wrong way around. Since a long time the $ no longer really qualifies as real money, and some fights on 200 can be quite real.

[icepac]

I've never once been hit by the 88s.

Maybe it's because I never did fly down their barrel or fly a perfectly straight path as I passed over a base.