Author Topic: This game has ran its course  (Read 19291 times)

Offline TwinBoom

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2018, 07:14:25 AM »
Only 2 sides
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Offline mutha

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2018, 09:39:27 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 03:31:59 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline lutrel

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2018, 01:20:51 PM »
AH is still a great game and after being in here for 11 years now, I'm still having a blast with my squaddies; we have no plans on going anywhere.
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Offline Zeagle

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2018, 01:36:04 PM »
I would hate to see AH go away. It's a classic. I remember the days when the servers were just loaded with people.

Keep up the good work HTC
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2018, 03:49:43 PM »
I would hate to see AH go away. It's a classic. I remember the days when the servers were just loaded with people.

Keep up the good work HTC

 See new announcement from HT on what they have been up to.... https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,395450.0.html
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 03:51:34 PM by Shuffler »
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2018, 04:10:59 PM »
I only played with WT about 30 min. 

I want a real flight model for the action part, I just don't want a 20 min climb out. 
I don't want a mindless furball lake, I want there to be a goal to achieve and a way to measure victory or defeat.
I want the entire experience from start to finish to last about 30min.  Like in Battlefield I can start a match, the action is almost instant, it is intense action for the duration, and one way or another it is over in about 25-30 minutes.  I can then leave having won or lost definitively, or choose to play another round. 


:salute


This is the biggest problem that I feel most players have. Especially for new players. The time it takes to find the fight and be successful in the fight to survive is very long, if you die in the first 3 seconds of enemy contact after flying for 15 minutes, it makes it very tiring. (Which is why I like the idea of a quick fight arena to learn the planes)  It's a game of patience and then striking quick like a snake. Like you said. Most people just run away because they don't want to spend another 10 minutes climbing out. It's not because of score or anything else. They simply don't know what else to do. That's the problem IMO with so many late war planes in the arena that were designed to be able to escape from fights by extending away. Too many of these planes makes for a slower atmosphere. That's why I like WW2 planes over jet fighting. Close quarter fights make better action for all players.

It's not the size of the map necessarily, but I do believe that if 3 sides can fight against each other, it makes for better fights. Also, smaller fronts would make for better fights. A "path to action" using hills and valleys would help a lot for players to have a path for base taking. Even if you can't get a squad or a mission together, players flying in the same general area will be able to communicate what they want to do. There needs to back bases that players can roll from to defend a field under attack. A back base that isn't going to take 15 minutes to fly from. Back bases are the real way to defeat the horde.


I find that most people really don't understand how the MA works nor take the time to better their ACM and become better at the MA. Do I wish less people would gang in Yak3s and La7s? Sure... Do I wish everyone was nice? Sure. But the MA is pure 100% kill or get killed and that makes it very competitive. This is how nature is  Every plane has it's own advantage. It's about playing smart and shooting planes or tanks or buildings down without getting ganged or killed. Its about understanding E and advantage, pushing your plane to the limit. Understanding the planes around you and the pilots limit.  Staying away from your planes weakness. No other air combat game has that.

This is not a 5v5 skirmish where everything is "fair" and "balanced".

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Offline bustr

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2018, 05:12:39 PM »
See if Hitech is interested in a Titanic Tuesday with a 5x5 terrain in the MA. One night a week will take a month for small groups to learn how to abuse the arena at will.(or less.... :confused: ) It would be different, I'm not sure if it would be attractive to many of the older vets being forced into a none stop fight with almost no place to get out from under it to regroup and find easier fights like 10x10 terrains.

Cramming 140 players into a 5x5 will make all activity initiatives easy to interfere with by half a dozen or so players in late war monsters. Land grabbers and bomber players would be easy targets for them since distances would be so close, effectively making anyone toting bombs a half crippled low easy target. Fights generated out of any land grabbing would resemble the center island on NDisles when someone tries to capture one of three super large airfields on the coast. It would favor squads with ACM only players who would make the less talented player base feel griefed and hopeless to achieve kills. The ACM players would have a blast...... 

Most people who play combat games are not playing the game for the pure raw challenge of the fight. They will leave the game if their ability to avoid constant fighting dictated by others is reduced below their tolerance levels. The creators of Fortnite understand this and why they have an arena for those who are not playing for constant combat and a King of the Hill arena for the combat junkies. Hitech for years has given us arena options other than the MA to try and feed the two needs. So I'm not sure if Hitech would really go for a one night a week 5x5 MA in which the fight junkies would have a feild day on everyone else in such a restricted space. A two country terrain is effectively the same for fight junkies.  Even today I watch people avoid the bish when they have 60 while everyone else has maybe 30. On a 5x5 that would be over powering even if all the bish could fly was Mid War monsters. Numbers and time to turn around to a fight matter if you cannot regroup 6 sectors away to start a new fight.

Still it would not be hard for me to export Oceania, pull out the central 5x5, re-import, add some backfeild and repaint it while adding feilds. With a 5x5 it's so small, you would only need the HQ and the City if it was possible for Hitech to add a 5x5 strat function that uses the City health for all the resupply\rebuild functions of the 5 strats we normally lay down. And I would leave the single ports with both CV and BB to be naughty since a 5x5 in the MA is naughty itself.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2018, 06:21:38 PM »
those asking for smaller maps havent logged in early in the morning when bishops roll base after base to win the war.  make it easier for them to win 2 or 3 maps in the morning every day.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2018, 07:34:51 PM »
See if Hitech is interested in a Titanic Tuesday with a 5x5 terrain in the MA. One night a week will take a month for small groups to learn how to abuse the arena at will.(or less.... :confused: ) It would be different, I'm not sure if it would be attractive to many of the older vets being forced into a none stop fight with almost no place to get out from under it to regroup and find easier fights like 10x10 terrains.

Cramming 140 players into a 5x5 will make all activity initiatives easy to interfere with by half a dozen or so players in late war monsters. Land grabbers and bomber players would be easy targets for them since distances would be so close, effectively making anyone toting bombs a half crippled low easy target. Fights generated out of any land grabbing would resemble the center island on NDisles when someone tries to capture one of three super large airfields on the coast. It would favor squads with ACM only players who would make the less talented player base feel griefed and hopeless to achieve kills. The ACM players would have a blast...... 

Most people who play combat games are not playing the game for the pure raw challenge of the fight. They will leave the game if their ability to avoid constant fighting dictated by others is reduced below their tolerance levels. The creators of Fortnite understand this and why they have an arena for those who are not playing for constant combat and a King of the Hill arena for the combat junkies. Hitech for years has given us arena options other than the MA to try and feed the two needs. So I'm not sure if Hitech would really go for a one night a week 5x5 MA in which the fight junkies would have a feild day on everyone else in such a restricted space. A two country terrain is effectively the same for fight junkies.  Even today I watch people avoid the bish when they have 60 while everyone else has maybe 30. On a 5x5 that would be over powering even if all the bish could fly was Mid War monsters. Numbers and time to turn around to a fight matter if you cannot regroup 6 sectors away to start a new fight.

Still it would not be hard for me to export Oceania, pull out the central 5x5, re-import, add some backfeild and repaint it while adding feilds. With a 5x5 it's so small, you would only need the HQ and the City if it was possible for Hitech to add a 5x5 strat function that uses the City health for all the resupply\rebuild functions of the 5 strats we normally lay down. And I would leave the single ports with both CV and BB to be naughty since a 5x5 in the MA is naughty itself.

Well, like I said, it's not necessarily how big the overall map is. You could have a 5x5 but put bases too far apart and wouldn't make any difference. It's really the base layout and how many fronts the enemies have to attack + the base distance. More fronts typically means more spread out fights which can make them smaller. Far bases means far flights. Far bases suck for new players.    People having a path of action really enhances the fights and flow of the game. Now I'm not saying something gamey should be done to adjust that, I'm just saying that action in the game can be inhanced by attempting to create this concept on new maps. Also, when teams have the ability to all fight each other at the same time. That is typically good for action during the off hours.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2018, 08:27:21 PM »
Just a thought ..... and kinda sidebar to the main topic, anyway ....

I wonder if the game could be coded to prevent base capture if there are no defenders? Scratch that. Players would game the game by abandoning defense of bases to prevent capture. What about limiting capture to three bases per front at a time with new bases becoming eligible for capture once bases are captured? For example ..... no never mind ....... that just hurt my head.

Spanish Civil War.

Offline flippz

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2018, 06:40:03 AM »
Just a thought ..... and kinda sidebar to the main topic, anyway ....

I wonder if the game could be coded to prevent base capture if there are no defenders? Scratch that. Players would game the game by abandoning defense of bases to prevent capture. What about limiting capture to three bases per front at a time with new bases becoming eligible for capture once bases are captured? For example ..... no never mind ....... that just hurt my head.

Spanish Civil War.
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,394732.msg5237841.html#msg5237841

Offline zack1234

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2018, 06:56:28 AM »
It depends what I am doing in the real world when I play AH.

Don’t remember AH getting poo?

Low numbers are gibberish, when I log on there is always the same amount as usual.

Who ever started this thread needs to get out more
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
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Offline Kovel

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2018, 11:33:40 AM »
The game has not changed. The players have not changed either and that is the killer part.
The players that we have now are the same players from 10 years ago, only they are 10 years older. We get very little new blood - where are the squeekers? Have you heard one on comms lately? I have not. They are not gone - the game is so old that they went through puberty and are grown men now.

The game itself is still great. Technically, it is better than it ever was. However, games like this need a lively community to make them happen. There is no meaningful or very engaging PvE. We as a community are worn out and decaying old geezers. I have been here since late 2001 - yes, that is 17 friggin years! playing the same game - this is how awesome this game is, but there is a limit even to awesome.

Without a fresh spirit and energy I won’t make it to 20 years of AH. The game has not offered anything new in years. Sure AHIII came along and was much needed, but it is still the same game, same content, same players only older.

Oddly enough, AH has no real competition. Warthunder is an arcade. DCS is a great sim, but poor game (furnall arena is the closest it comes to AH). IL2 has some private servers that can somewhat resemble a persistent arena, but that is it.

AH needs a major reboot that include some meaningful new content to apeal to its vetrans and marketed to new crowds as a new game. Joining a game/community that has been running for 18 years is very intimidating to new and young players that were born after AH1 was released!

Bozon got the clue. I agree 100 % on this ....
" I personally led the attack to A1" - Pipz

Offline Charon

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2018, 05:35:20 PM »
It's been a while...

I stopped playing about 8 years ago for a variety of reason including burnout (but I have stayed a subscriber to support what is IMO an important niche - the accessible WW2 air combat sim with a focus on realistic flight models). Actually looking to start back up again and I've made a few hops and scored some kills.

While burnout was a factor the "win the war by winning the map" gameplay mode which is still around was a much bigger factor. Time spent looking for a good fight way outweighed the time spent actually having a good fight. Horde warrior is no fun getting gang banged, and for me no fun being part of the gang bang. This is about the 10th time I have posted the following (but not for 8 years) but I believe it hits the core of the issue. There do seem to be more fights now than when I checked out (maybe because some of the casual gamers have left), but there is still much of the same.

FWIW this isn't unique to AH. I left Air Warrior a few months before EA shut it down for the exact same reason. Going way back, though a few years short of Dale and Doug in this regard, AW started off as a combat sim that while it lacked in graphics, and lacked in flight and gunnery models did not lack in fight. Winning the war (not the map, more on that in a bit) was still there but the fight was always on. I took a year off from burnout in the late 1990s or so and during that time the win the war model changed to win the map. The very FIRST flight back was spent chasing planes trying to get in a fight as they made suicidal attacks on fields or milk ran in odd corners only to relocate if any opposition showed up. Sound familiar? It was so dramatic a change that it was immediately noticeable and like an entirely different game.

When I came to AH for the first few years it was like early AW where the fight was concerned even with the AH map focus. That changed, I believe with the first "massive squadron" developments (Thanks Rip!) and huge typhoon raids. It was as if no one had really conceptualized winning the war vs winning the fight until then, and it was a natural outlet for the newer players coming into the game for the early AH marketing efforts.

ACM is much harder than a FPS type game. Becoming competent in 3 dimensions, blackouts and redouts, energy management and most importantly layers of situational awareness takes time and effort. It took me about 6 months in AW back in the day flying against guys who were really, really sharp to finally get a positive KD and that took not just practice for skill but some key conceptual insights as well. For people that grew up reading WW2 books on air combat and the great aces the brutal failure was worth it for a brief glimpse at that experience. For the typical gamer without that connection to history I can only imagine it gets fairly old fairly quickly. More acradish flight models and view systems overcome this to some extent. But, an even better shortcut is the ability to succeed at winning the war vs. winning the fight. And winning the map allows for that.

In AW's original model only the central fields were capturable. The "atoll" for the Pacific map and the "Lake" for the euro map. The rear fields for the countries were not capturable. Points were scored for the amount of time a country controlled the various central bases (which switched back and forth) until the tour timed out a week later. Why this model works is that in order to capture the bases and eventually win the war you HAD to congregate in a central area. That area was big enough for one country to push against another or to fight over a specific base, but small enough that it was much hard to avoid the fight and harder to generate lopsided numbers in some corner of the map during normal hours. Milkrunning did occur but that tended to be in low attendance hours.

The change at AW happened during the Gamestorm era which continued to EA which was sucking big time 20 years ago as well as today. In speaking with the customer support folk about the crash in fun and gameplay with the much more spread out win the map format they said that the pricing change that happened etc. (much cheaper) generated far greater numbers and that the server code could no longer handle concentrated numbers. I would imagine that might be an issue today but a lot of progress has happened. IMO, a return to a similar gameplay, win the war not map model would dramatically improve gameplay.



« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 05:44:52 PM by Charon »

Offline Oldman731

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Re: This game has ran its course
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2018, 08:43:51 PM »
It's been a while...

I stopped playing about 8 years ago for a variety of reason including burnout (but I have stayed a subscriber to support what is IMO an important niche - the accessible WW2 air combat sim with a focus on realistic flight models). Actually looking to start back up again and I've made a few hops and scored some kills.


Dude.  Enough of the reminiscing.  You're making me feel old.  Get your butt back in here.

- oldman