Another 737 down

[Busher]

but do you think this abnormality while rare should be fixed now that while rare it may happen again.

semp

Any improvement to a commercial airplane is welcome. I am just not convinced that a properly maintained could have this issue. As I said before, there are many items in the Ethiopian Preliminary report that give me serious concerns it was properly maintained.

[FLS]

quick question. you guys have mentioned several times that trained pilots should have been able to handle the malfunction or however you want to call it.

why are the planes grounded?

semp

Because it wasn't immediately clear what caused the accident and Boeing has to worry about public perception.

[Puma44]

Any improvement to a commercial airplane is welcome. I am just not convinced that a properly maintained could have this issue. As I said before, there are many items in the Ethiopian Preliminary report that give me serious concerns it was properly maintained.

I agree.

[Puma44]

More than half the country and the FAA believe “they” are wrong, thankfully.

That “more than half the country” most likely got it’s info on this subject from the news media.  So, “they” are wrong. 

[Vraciu]

I believe they stated earlier that it is political.

100%


And I predicted it beforehand. 

[Vraciu]

They should learn to fly the plane....

As Christ aptly demonstrated, the mob is always wrong. 

[Vraciu]

Any improvement to a commercial airplane is welcome. I am just not convinced that a properly maintained could have this issue. As I said before, there are many items in the Ethiopian Preliminary report that give me serious concerns it was properly maintained.

Yep. 

And frankly, if a bone needed to be thrown it could have been handled without a panic grounding of the entire fleet.   The unintended consequences of placing perfectly good airplanes into storage and then bringing them back out are potentially more hazardous than letting them continue to fly with operators competent enough to do so safely. 

[Toad]

Due to the overwhelming political aspect we can be thankful Boeing will be punished for building a very good airplane that may need a minor tweak to the software.

We can be thankful a clueless media can still convince the lemming herd that clueless reporters are reliable sources of information.

Most of all we can be thankful that the issues of incompetent maintenance and incompetent aviators will not be addressed and the incompetence can continue without pause. [/sarcasm]

If you'll excuse me, I have to go to Sloan Kettering in New York and critique their brain cancer surgery. Because I read all about how to do it in the NY Times. They have great medical reporters.

[SysError]

"Former Boeing Engineers Say Relentless Cost-Cutting Sacrificed Safety
The failures of the 737 Max appear to be the result of an emphasis on speed, cost, and above all shareholder value."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-boeing-engineers-say-relentless-cost-cutting-sacrificed-safety?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[ACE]

"Former Boeing Engineers Say Relentless Cost-Cutting Sacrificed Safety
The failures of the 737 Max appear to be the result of an emphasis on speed, cost, and above all shareholder value."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-boeing-engineers-say-relentless-cost-cutting-sacrificed-safety?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Careful before most mock your source. Or belittle your opinion.

[Busher]

"Former Boeing Engineers Say Relentless Cost-Cutting Sacrificed Safety
The failures of the 737 Max appear to be the result of an emphasis on speed, cost, and above all shareholder value."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-boeing-engineers-say-relentless-cost-cutting-sacrificed-safety?utm_source=pocket-newtab

I read this article and like every other preceding publication, it draws a clearly stated conclusion before independent professionals have had an opportunity to complete their investigation.

"Yet somehow a company renowned for its meticulous engineering installed software that drove the aircraft into the ground while the pilots searched desperately for answers."


The rest of the article reads like the normal fallout that results from lousy industrial relations with a Union; and as a long time union member (ALPA) it saddens me when corporations and their employees cannot find the common ground to realize they are a team. But I guess the management team walks the carpet dance in fear of the shareholders at all companies.

[ACE]

That “more than half the country” most likely got it’s info on this subject from the news media.  So, “they” are wrong. 

That’s a very subjective opinion.

[saggs]

quick question. you guys have mentioned several times that trained pilots should have been able to handle the malfunction or however you want to call it.

why are the planes grounded?

semp

Trained pilots should have been able to handle the malfunction, true.  The root cause of the malfunction should be corrected, also true.

Everybody arguing here about it's Boeings fault vs. it's the crews fault. The reality is there is enough blame for both.  As I've said before there is never one single causal factor in an accident like this, but rather an accident chain with multiple links, break any one of the links and you prevent the accident.

[Busher]

Due to the overwhelming political aspect we can be thankful Boeing will be punished for building a very good airplane that may need a minor tweak to the software.

We can be thankful a clueless media can still convince the lemming herd that clueless reporters are reliable sources of information.

Most of all we can be thankful that the issues of incompetent maintenance and incompetent aviators will not be addressed and the incompetence can continue without pause. [/sarcasm]

If you'll excuse me, I have to go to Sloan Kettering in New York and critique their brain cancer surgery. Because I read all about how to do it in the NY Times. They have great medical reporters.

Thank you for this Toad. Not sure if you're glad to be out of the industry but I am. I was still working (and maybe you were as well) through the beginning of the "political" era. It was a pleasure for the door to hit me in the butt on retirement. But I do hope a great company like Boeing survives this crap. I'm still convinced the Airbus approach is the wrong one.

[saggs]

First troubleshooting step would be to check fuel to the engine.

No, that would be silly because  A) if there was no fuel getting to the FCU it would not start at all and  B) before they even attempted to start the crew would have gotten a MASTER WARNING light and a FUEL PRESS LOW annunciation light on the panel.

Hung starts and failures to spool up on turbines is usually an air issue, like any of the air sensing lines to the FCU has a leak or obstruction, or a sticky/malfunctioning PRBC valve.  Less likely is a fault in the FCU itself, or somebody screwed up a fuel trim, even less likely (but possible) is a rigging issue.

But that’s what I would do without all of the training you have received.

A ha.  Here you get to the issue.  You are arguing with people who have thousands of hours of training, and decades of experience in a very specialized field, you admit you have none.  Yet, you think you are right and they are wrong.

it’s not about being humble. It’s about being confident in your abilities. As I sure you are aswell.

Stating as you did that you can "fix anything in front of me with just a schematic" is not confidence, it's over-confidence or arrogance. That kind of attitude in aviation maintenance is very dangerous, even deadly.

Bluntly put.  You don't know enough to even realize how much you don't know.