P 63 Airacobra

[Devil 505]

And american pilots in the Pacific thought that Ki-61's were actually Bf 109's when first encountered.

So using a pilot's plane identification skills during combat is less than ideal.

[Volron]

Just to be clear, I'm not against the addition of a new shinies, it's that the comparison to the C-47 made no sense.  A better comparison would be to that of the Meteor, which folks also want in AH.  The difference there is that I believe there are solid, documented proof that the Meteor was used in ground attacks on the Germans.  The P-63's documentation is sketchy at best.

[haggerty]

Just to be clear, I'm not against the addition of a new shinies, it's that the comparison to the C-47 made no sense.  A better comparison would be to that of the Meteor, which folks also want in AH.  The difference there is that I believe there are solid, documented proof that the Meteor was used in ground attacks on the Germans.  The P-63's documentation is sketchy at best.

The comparison to the C-47 was because everyone shuts down the late war planes for not having any verifiable kills.

[Devil 505]

The comparison to the C-47 was because everyone shuts down the late war planes for not having any verifiable kills.

Which is a ridiculous comparison given that the C-47 is the most significant transport aircraft in the war and the P-63 is barely a footnote when discussing fighters.

The Boulton Paul Defiant has more merit for inclusion in AH than the P-63.

[ONTOS]

Some say the P-63 had no kills (?), so we should not have them. However, there were weapons that were used like the PTAB's for the IL 2, the atomic bomb, and a few others, but we do not have them. Some people want one way, but not the other.   ( ok, no atonic bomb ).

[icepac]

There are so many quality planes made in much larger numbers.   
Russia manufactured 11,000 PE2 during the war and it's highly likely that all of them flew combat missions.

There are many planes flown during the war that would likely handle a p63 that were made in larger numbers that aren't in the game. 

It was only 12 mph faster than a 1941 production mig3 at 25,000 feet.

If I were a Japanese pilot flying a KI44 or J2M and happened upon a P63, I would be very happy.

It's only standout quality was it's service ceiling and I doubt many in aces would use it. 

In the arena, I would climb to 43,000 feet into the path of b29s reported over 30k.

[ONTOS]

We can look for the fastest, most heavily armed, and the best turn fighter to put in the game. But there was mix of all planes in the war. progress made better planes through the war. Having a new plane doesn't mean it has to be the best. Whether the P 63 or the Fiat Cr 42, if you build it, people will fly it. Some people play the game to see how many points they can accumulate, some to show off how many planes they can shoot down, and some just love the WW II airplanes and for a few hours they can time travel  back in history. People have different reasons.  I would like to see a new plane no matter which one.

[Ack-Ack]

Nothing is CERTAIN other than taxes and death.   If one didn't witness the event it becomes a matter of probability.   

The evidence favors combat usage of the P-63 in Manchuria against Japan (August 1945) , including aerial victories on at least one occasion (Ki-43, 15 August 1945 - Miroshnichenko*).

There is certain, almost certain, and uncertain.   In probability theory the term is "almost surely" (used alongside "almost certainly"). 

Time to go water your high horse. 

(I'm done discussing this with the certainly obtuse.)

*poof*

--
 * One source credits this victory to Sirotin.

There are no official Soviet records that mention any air to air kills against the Japanese.  The only "records" are confusing and sometimes contradictory second hand accounts.  However, just because the P-63 may have or maybe not shot down another plane, it did see combat in the ground attack role.

[ACE]

There are no official Soviet records that mention any air to air kills against the Japanese.  The only "records" are confusing and sometimes contradictory second hand accounts.  However, just because the P-63 may have or maybe not shot down another plane, it did see combat in the ground attack role.

Ah, AK don’t waste your time with the troll.

[Volron]

There are no official Soviet records that mention any air to air kills against the Japanese.  The only "records" are confusing and sometimes contradictory second hand accounts.  However, just because the P-63 may have or maybe not shot down another plane, it did see combat in the ground attack role.

Then just like the Meteor, it meets requirements. 

[perdue3]

I don't think the argument is about whether the P-63 qualifies as an addition. The argument should be about whether we need/want it. The list of aircraft that are needed/wanted is very long and the P-63 finds itself near the bottom of that long, long list.

[Arlo]

Agreed. Furthermore, I'd say that MA functionality is no longer an issue. The best heavy bomber of the war is represented. The best jet of the war is represented. The best medium bombers and dive bombers are represented. The best piston driven fighters (with differences of opinion) are represented. The best tanks (again, with differences of opinion) are represented. Ship-wise, for the most part, the best is already represented, as well.

About the only thing left to be modeled there would be based on missing functionality (DD torps, etc.).

So, I contend that the only real reason left to add a plane, vehicle or even a ship would be to fill gaps for events. I agree with Perdue that the King Cobra would naturally fall to the bottom of such a list (as would the Meteor, unless the V-1 is modeled for some odd reason and such an event would be player vs AI).

What we're facing, unfortunately, is a drop in event participation driving a lack of motivation to add:

Fiat G.50 (Battle of Britain, North Africa and Med, Finland)
IAR 80/IAR 81 (Romania, Eastern Front - Battle of Stalingrad, Ploiesti)
Kawasaki Ki-100 (Defense of Japan - B-29 raids)
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3 (Eastern Front)
Mitsubishi J2M (Battle of Philippine Sea, Home Defense - B-29 raids)
Bristol Type 156 Beaufighter (France, Norway, Belgium, Pacific, Burma)
Petlyakov Pe-3 (Eastern Front)
Handley Page Halifax (Used heavily in the Euro Campaign)
Short Stirling (earlier bombing campaign Euro)
Armstrong Whitworth Whitley (Bombing campaign Euro, special duties)
Bristol Beaufort (Euro, Pacific, Burma, Malaya)
Dornier Do 217 (West and South Europe)
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 (Italy's most prolific bomber/torpedo bomber)
Curtiss SB2C Helldiver (Mid-war to late-war carrier based USN dive bomber)
Douglas TBD Devastator (USN early war torpedo bomber)
Nakajima B6N (IJN mid/late war torpedo bomber)

Then there might be consideration for the Ju-52 as well as perhaps modeling gliders for D-Day. If FPS was ever to be a practicality in AH then the Armstrong Whitworth Whitney shuttling commandos might become quite popular.

Players on the forum can argue the merits of such a list to their heart's content and I may offer pros and cons each way but any plane added from the above list would be great, imo.

But, if there's nobody participating in events I'm not sure HT and co. would see it worth their time.

[Slade]

But, if there's nobody participating in events I'm not sure HT and co. would see it worth their time.

Good point.  We have a point too. ROI.  We want to see our $ come back to us that we put into the R & D in this game.  If it stops growing then so will the funding.

I am a HUGE fan of AH though.  I hope to see ALL the planes in your list come to pass.

[Arlo]

Good point.  We have a point too. ROI.  We want to see our $ come back to us that we put into the R & D in this game.  If it stops growing then so will the funding.

I am a HUGE fan of AH though.  I hope to see ALL the planes in your list come to pass.

Your ROI is getting to play the game, itself, unless you really think of membership as part ownership (for some reason). There is no contract between you and HT promising x number of new planes modeled per x period of time. Other than that, the only ROI in this scenario is HT's. Just sayin'. (Not that I don't wanna see those planes I listed. I just know I actually have no right to expect them.)

[ONTOS]

If you people would look at my first entry , I said I did not particular like the P-63, I am lobbing for a new plane, that's all.    The Fiat G55 for example.