Author Topic: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.  (Read 428 times)

Offline FLS

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2020, 12:09:04 PM »
No, but even so the "sight picture" needs practice to get established in your mind. That takes time and I'll just use what time I have to flying online. It doesn't frustrate me. It would frustrate me if I didn't have the flying part down and I'm fine there at least.

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Try it once. Let me know if you need a maneuvering target. You already have sight pictures established, you just need to adjust them.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 12:19:35 PM by FLS »

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2020, 11:23:29 AM »
What rate do you use and why?

I use a monitor with a 60hz refresh rate because that's what my monitor supports.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2020, 11:33:35 AM »
I use a monitor with a 60hz refresh rate because that's what my monitor supports.

Understood.  Thanks.   Thought perhaps you would know something I didn't on this issue. 

I think I do the same as you and for the same reason.    :salute
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM »
Understood.  Thanks.   Thought perhaps you would know something I didn't on this issue. 

I think I do the same as you and for the same reason.    :salute

The thought is likely something along the lines of higher refresh is smoother and would allow faster reaction.  The way this game works, I'm really having trouble imagining a scenario where it would make a noticeable difference.  In infantry shooter games, those milliseconds matter but in this game stuff just doesn't happen that fast.

With 2 hoing 262s it *might* be a smidge different but I'd be curious to know what the OP thinks the advantage is.

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2020, 12:24:43 PM »
The thought is likely something along the lines of higher refresh is smoother and would allow faster reaction.  The way this game works, I'm really having trouble imagining a scenario where it would make a noticeable difference.  In infantry shooter games, those milliseconds matter but in this game stuff just doesn't happen that fast.

With 2 hoing 262s it *might* be a smidge different but I'd be curious to know what the OP thinks the advantage is.

Wiley.

I don't know enough about it all to comment one way or the other.  I feel like 60 is limiting but I have far bigger problems with my skills than I do with my refresh rate.
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Offline FLS

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2020, 02:06:15 PM »
The higher the refresh rate the smoother the game looks which is more comfortable, especially in VR. The bigger issue is the spacing between frames. 45 FPS with exact timing between frames could look smoother than 60 FPS with a timing variation between frames. So 60 FPS could be smoother on one system than another. Also any stutter is more noticeable the lower the framerate. With 120 FPS a timing variation would be less noticeable since it could only be 1/2 of the variation at 60 FPS. 180 FPS with exact timing would be very nice but generally not an advantage vs 45 FPS except in comfort and enjoyment.

Input lag and sloppy joysticks are issues more likely to affect performance.

Offline Eagler

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2020, 09:42:16 AM »
Wow

Socialism visits AH3

Lol

Get a life please

<S>

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2020, 10:00:35 AM »
LoL.  I'm all for maintaining a reasonably fair and level playing field for all players.  I just can't image that this would have any material effect in this type of game.  It would be interesting to do some controlled tests somehow.

If the OP really wants to worry about the rich-man's advantage, I think a much larger advantage is provided by TrackIR and even more so by VR, as compared to normal joystick hat views .

Being able to look straight back with the hat switch without twisting around and still have the advantage of leaning to look around the tail almost feels like cheating.  :D

My skillz still suck, but I definitely suck less in a furball with VR.

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Offline Wiley

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2020, 11:32:18 PM »
VR is likely good, I still think the biggest rich man's advantage would be TrackIR and a triple monitor setup.  I believe that would be the best SA you could buy.

I'd also be curious to try some controlled tests.  Anyone want to spot me a 144Hz monitor and a computer that can drive it?  :D

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2020, 11:59:16 PM »
My vote is TrackIR.  VR is awesome but you have to move your head way too much to look around compared to TrackIR.   The reaction time is just faster with the latter.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2020, 12:04:27 AM »
My vote is TrackIR.  VR is awesome but you have to move your head way too much to look around compared to TrackIR.   The reaction time is just faster with the latter.

No you don't.

The hat views can be used in conjunction with the VR.  So I hit the hat switch and I am instantly looking directly backwards.  While looking backwards I can tilt my head a bit to see around the tail.

With VR combine with hat views, I almost never turn my head more than +-10 Deg max.  Other that that I am just tilting from side to side bit.

In IL2?  Yeah.  I got to the the Linda Blair thing to look behind me.


 
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2020, 04:45:18 AM »
Interesting. 
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2020, 10:14:35 AM »
Interesting.

And the other advantage is just the true sense of 3D space and distance.  It really helps with lead and deflection shooting. I still suck, but my gunnery feels about 25% better with VR.

The trade-off (currently but maybe not forever) is resolution.  Ironically, that has pro's and con's too.  We were noticing in the last couple of scenarios, that I was seeming to pick up distant dots sooner that some of the monitor players who thought I was seeing thing in my imagination.  Our best guess was that a single distant dot con is more visible to me because a single pixel is larger to me relative to my field of view because my resolution is lower.

Compared to a faster monitor? Pfffft.  Two equally skilled players, one monitor only, one VR, the VR player has a significant advantage, IMHO. 

Right now all the VR guys are like:  "Shhhhhh.  STFU dude!"

Let me put it this way.  I won't play a flight sim that doesn't have decent VR support.  Period.  Full stop.  Non-negotiable.  I have Cliffs of Dover Blitz sitting on my hard drive.  It is beautiful and I dearly want to sit and dig into several axis/allied pilot carreers.  But I won't until they've added the VR support.  Non-negotiable.  I just couldn't ever go back.


 


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Online Drano

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2020, 10:43:43 AM »
And the other advantage is just the true sense of 3D space and distance.  It really helps with lead and deflection shooting. I still suck, but my gunnery feels about 25% better with VR.

The trade-off (currently but maybe not forever) is resolution.  Ironically, that has pro's and con's too.  We were noticing in the last couple of scenarios, that I was seeming to pick up distant dots sooner that some of the monitor players who thought I was seeing thing in my imagination.  Our best guess was that a single distant dot con is more visible to me because a single pixel is larger to me relative to my field of view because my resolution is lower.

Compared to a faster monitor? Pfffft.  Two equally skilled players, one monitor only, one VR, the VR player has a significant advantage, IMHO. 

Right now all the VR guys are like:  "Shhhhhh.  STFU dude!"

Let me put it this way.  I won't play a flight sim that doesn't have decent VR support.  Period.  Full stop.  Non-negotiable.  I have Cliffs of Dover Blitz sitting on my hard drive.  It is beautiful and I dearly want to sit and dig into several axis/allied pilot carreers.  But I won't until they've added the VR support.  Non-negotiable.  I just couldn't ever go back.


 
I'd agree with what you've said in your last two posts. VR has been a leap forward but there are still some steps to be made along the way. I said before my gunnery had improved and I believe it has although not by as much as yours! I think that has to do with seeing the target in much higher detail as a 3D object at least within guns range. I am also seeing distant dots now where they went away years ago when I got a 1080p monitor. I agree it's the lower res on the headset that's the reason there. Bigger pixels.

Having the ability in AH to use the hat switches makes it almost exactly like using TIR so that transition was pretty flawless. Messing with IL-2 lately I also agree that their view system needs to include this for VR users. Anything much beyond the 3-9 line is literally an exercise. I spilled a beer over that crap! Pulley system fixed that but the hat switches would be nice.

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Online Drano

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Re: Lock the Screen Refresh at 60Hz ~ Remove hardware from the Dogfight.
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2020, 10:47:54 AM »
I'd add that you can get higher res and wider FOV in a headset but say with the Pimax you're talking a grand for just the headset and more for the peripherals.

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