Author Topic: Covid Vaccine  (Read 30420 times)

Offline RotBaron

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #360 on: December 22, 2020, 10:55:04 PM »
My nephews told me there’s a new strain identified in the UK and vaccine won’t work for this mutation. Truth to this?

I try to keep my Covid news and thus the anxiety about it to a minimum.
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #361 on: December 22, 2020, 11:26:08 PM »
Not sure if you are saying that Science and Faith are mutually exclusive ... for me they are not in conflict.
Faith and Religion are 2 separate things, and NOT the same! I believe you know this, just pointing it out. Nothing else in this thread worth really commenting on :D  Religion, I have issues with, Faith not so much.
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Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #362 on: December 22, 2020, 11:33:26 PM »
I am applying it specifically to my situation. The sect of Protestantism that my family is believes in the miraculous. As a child of reason that is burdened with rationalism, it means conflict.
EXACTLY! Makes the Holidays fun though, dont it :rofl I also come from a HEAVY Religious background and have to remind some family,that  Jesus didnt hang out with Puritans! Folk forget that part of the Gospels. First Miracle,water to wine! I am of the Ralphy May-"Smoking weed with Jesus" mind set!  :rofl Bring on the pitchforks and torches, but if folk would watch that skit, they would probably laugh as well :aok  Let me guess,Southern Baptist? All modern Sects came from the same source, and who held the recipe for Beer?  The Monks, who were incharge of transcribing the Scriptures. If it was good enough for them, I will take a beer. Only "Being drunken" is mentioned as frowned upon.  :old: Fermentation is Science based so is also from God. One doesnt have to look hard to see, that Science will eventually Prove God, NOT RELIGION. Not everything is miracles,The Exodus, Elijah and Prophets of Baal, stories for example.  God can use science easy enough...as its already been created.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 11:59:52 PM by 1stpar3 »
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline perdue3

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #363 on: December 22, 2020, 11:57:33 PM »
The most religious I could possibly be is akin to Voltaire's ideas of religion.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 12:08:41 AM by perdue3 »
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Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #364 on: December 23, 2020, 12:00:25 AM »
The most religious I could possibly be is akin to Voltaire's ideas of religion. That should spark a zack1234 post  :azn:
:rofl He runs this place now right? UH-OH :rofl
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline MORAY37

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #365 on: December 23, 2020, 02:14:54 AM »
My nephews told me there’s a new strain identified in the UK and vaccine won’t work for this mutation. Truth to this?

I try to keep my Covid news and thus the anxiety about it to a minimum.

That is likely untrue.  The mutation in Britain is located on the spike protein, which basically allows the SARS-Cov-2 virus to enter the cell.  It does not appear that there are any other genetic changes besides that....meaning no change to the replication factors or the course of illness in Covid-19.  It may get the designation of SARS-CoV-3 soon, although this likely won't be enough to be considered that genetically distinct.  It has also arisen multiple times in other populations in the world, but has not gotten traction like it did in the U.K.'s population.

This mutation does make the virus more able to infect human cells, apparently, but does not change the course of the infection. Meaning, it is easier to get sick from it, and likely lowers the initial threshold required to begin an infection (which was ~1,500 viral particles introduced into a "healthy" person), but doesn't change the course of the disease,  and most likely, will not affect the ability of the current vaccines to counter it with our immune response. 

 Virulence factors are usually involved with replication and factors that our immune system uses to identify the virus. None of those appear affected by this mutation.  I do quantify that there is still work to be done to have a complete scientific understanding of what the mutation did.

This kind of mutation is actually very common.  The more hosts a virus enters, the more likely this mutation occurs in response.  However, I would caution that even though coronaviruses don't mutate at a high rate... say, as influenza does, this selection does make it more imperative to get people vaccinated quickly.  If it is easier to infect human cells, logic dictates it will likely now infect more humans.... which gives it more opportunity to evolve a mutation that really IS problematic. Every viral replication done under the individual conditions that are each person's cellular makeup increases the chance that another mutation arises.  It may be a 1 in 300 million chance to randomly spring a truly terrible mutation....... but if you give it 300 million chances....
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 02:30:04 AM by MORAY37 »
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Offline zack1234

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #366 on: December 23, 2020, 04:07:42 AM »
The most religious I could possibly be is akin to Voltaire's ideas of religion.

Is it true you like big German sausage?
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Offline Eagler

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #367 on: December 23, 2020, 06:33:25 AM »
Hope you are correct Moray

But as with everything about this illness as soon as someone thinks they have it in a box it is not

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Offline perdue3

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #368 on: December 23, 2020, 10:15:28 AM »
Is it true you like big German sausage?

Knackwurst is delicious and I love a Weißwurst with eggs, too. Of course, the most common here is Bratwurst, which we eat quite often in various meals. The only traditional German sausage I do not like is Blühtwurst, proper disgusting that. I am not crazy about Teewurst or Gelbwurst, either.

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Offline MORAY37

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #369 on: December 23, 2020, 05:41:38 PM »
Hope you are correct Moray

But as with everything about this illness as soon as someone thinks they have it in a box it is not

Eagler

Eagler, this virus has not thrown any sort of real issue at us, from an immunological standpoint.  The mutations it has expressed have been predictable and it hasn't developed any sort of increase in mortality over time, meaning the genetics are quite stable, and that there are subsets of our own population-wide genetics that have a particularly hard time with it.  I've read in some papers that people who carry genes believed to have originated in Neanderthals are particularly susceptible, 4x-5x higher, to very serious Covid-19 development....roughly 1 in 3 of the world's population.
 
We have, or rather, a subset of our population has chosen to blatantly ignore the ramifications of their actions, nor care how many people they don't know die from it.  Science has known how to successfully control the spread of infectious disease for hundreds of years, and SARS-CoV-2 isn't particularly outstanding at any set of traits.  I'd be more concerned if it was "just" a flu.... because influenza is particularly adept at gene mutations and gene swapping between strains.  That's why influenza still gets to us every year.... because influenza is rather fleet of foot and changes quite rapidly.  A new strain of influenza emerges every few weeks.

This virus has been rather mundane from a epidemiological standpoint, other than its novelty to our immune system at emergence..... If it was a virus like Ebola with an 85% mortality at emergence, I suspect 90% of the United States would be dead, given our absolutely abysmal response in the past 9 months.

There isn't an epidemiologist in the world who believe this virus has been particularly hard to "put in a box".  It's just that a significant number of those among us believe that they shouldn't be bothered with controlling themselves.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 05:53:37 PM by MORAY37 »
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #370 on: December 23, 2020, 06:47:07 PM »
There is too much science out there proving it wasn't.

Gain-of-function research is a standard tool these days, and it has been done on many viruses including SARS-CoV-2, by various labs around the world.

It is possible for it to have been a product of such work.

Almost none of the general population -- and no journalists either -- know the science enough to decide on their own.  What people believe is then based on faith in the judgement of those journalists or media those people choose to read.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 06:59:03 PM by Brooke »

Offline Brooke

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #371 on: December 23, 2020, 07:08:29 PM »
My nephews told me there’s a new strain identified in the UK and vaccine won’t work for this mutation. Truth to this?

No one will know for sure until they test and see.  It depends on the mutation and the vaccine.  But it will get tested, and we'll know.

For a vaccine that produces spike proteins, if the mutation is in the spike protein, it is possible for the vaccine to be less effective against the new strain.

However, it is also possible for it to be fine -- as the mutation might not change the way the immune system recognizes the spike protein.

Even if a vaccine is affected by a mutation, it might still be mostly effective and thus worthwhile.

In the future, we'll probably be able to know by computer modelling without needing any testing.

Offline Eagler

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #372 on: December 24, 2020, 07:24:50 AM »
Third strain in Africa?

Eagler
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Offline zack1234

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #373 on: December 24, 2020, 07:28:40 AM »
I am selling mouse milk for $45 for 6 drops.

It cures all varieties of covid from 19 to 24

It also cures rickets :old:

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Offline save

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Re: Covid Vaccine
« Reply #374 on: December 30, 2020, 11:31:00 AM »
I am selling mouse milk for $45 for 6 drops.

It cures all varieties of covid from 19 to 24

It also cures rickets :old:

I blame Zack for the UK strain of Covid, it's Zack who has been to cuddly with his mouse.
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