Sullly Day

[Vraciu]

 

did you not read the op post?? Go start your own thread this was a salute to sully stop hijacking and dumping on a thread you have no interest in supporting. Go spread your hate elsewhere we are not impressed

Lol.  Cool story, bro.

[scott66]

Anyone who contends these two emergencies were even remotely equal has no concept of the subject at hand.  What the United crew did was, as best I can determine, unprecedented--and unduplicated.


Just about any Captain could do what Sullen did.   I know of not a soul that would dare suggest they could pull off what that United bunch did.  I sure couldn't have.

well I guess we will never know opinions very now don't they

[Eviscerate]

Anyone who contends these two emergencies were even remotely equal has no concept of the subject at hand.  What the United crew did was, as best I can determine, unprecedented--and unduplicated.


Just about any Captain could do what Sullen did.   I know of not a soul that would dare suggest they could pull off what that United bunch did.  I sure couldn't have.

An unprecedented situation compared to an unprecedented situation. It is impossible to say that "any captain" could've done what Sully did in that situation, just like it is impossible to say that "any captain" could've done that was done on United 232.

I think it is safe to say that in in most major airline pilot's career(s), they'd never experience this sort of catastrophic failure. These types of incidents are one of a kind.

[Vraciu]

An unprecedented situation compared to an unprecedented situation.

Many crews have successfully landed jets after a complete power loss.   The notion this is unprecedented (compared to UAL 232's situation, which was--having been brought to a survivable conclusion) is laughable.

It is impossible to say that "any captain" could've done what Sully did in that situation, just like it is impossible to say that "any captain" could've done that was done on United 232.

Any well trained Captain could have--and would have--done what Sully did.   I did it in the simulator a decade before he did in a jet I was not yet typed in.   He had no other option, of COURSE he landed in the water.   Same with my scenario.   There was nowhere else to go.

UAL 232 is a different animal entirely.   It's not the same ball game.  It's not even the same sport.

I think it is safe to say that in in most major airline pilot's career(s), they'd never experience this sort of catastrophic failure. These types of incidents are one of a kind.

UAL was one of a kind.   USAir was not.   USAir's situation has happened numerous times before for various reasons from hail to fuel starvation to volcanic ash to mechanical failure to bird ingestion to inadvertent exceedance of operating limits to fuel filters freezing with water (this happened to a friend of mine at night and they saved the jet).   Engines flameout.  It's a fact of life.   

Dead stick landings are practiced from the earliest days of primary training onward.   I include engine out scenarios to every student I can to drive home the message that it can happen anywhere.   When your engine quits you put the plane in the best spot you can find.    The Hudson River is the logical choice--and in this case, the only one

[Vraciu]

well I guess we will never know opinions very now don't they

But we do know.  We can actually recreate this event in a very serious way and see the crew's reactions.

And we have already seen similar situations successfully concluded in real life.

The reality is that had Sullen done anything OTHER than land in the Hudson then he would be considered a complete fool.    I think the thing that saved him was that it happened so low he didn't have a chance to seriously consider turning back toward Teterboro or La Guardia--otherwise he would have eaten a building.

[scott66]

But we do know.  We can actually recreate this event in a very serious way and see the crew's reactions.

And we have already seen similar situations successfully concluded in real life.

The reality is that had Sullen done anything OTHER than land in the Hudson then he would be considered a complete fool.    I think the thing that saved him was that it happened so low he didn't have a chance to seriously consider turning back toward Teterboro or La Guardia--otherwise he would have eaten a building.

I understand that however recreation does not replace reality you can recreate something and program it into a simulator but in reality you get no second chances if you get it wrong.. We will just agree to disagree

[guncrasher]

Exactly.

You wanna see something very few could pull off I contend it is what the crew and dead-head Check Airman did on United 232.

cool now you are doing the thing when we were kids, my father can beat up your father.

I've been on that river, once it was so bad I threw up. captain sully made a bad situation come out ok. and he got blamed for it, investigation tried to blame him for ditching in the river.  I dont consider him a hero, hero is used way too many times.  but I do give him credit for landing safely and not losing a soul.  part of it is skill, part of it is god or luck whichever you prefer. luck part was the water was calm.

I kind of doubt the reference you said before about your friend's wife landed an airplane with smoke in the cabin and not being able to see more than 5 inches.  mostly because that's an exaggeration on your part.  been there in a car, lucky I didnt crash or kill somebody.

I think what bothers you is what he said or acted after.  me as a passenger that bothers me.  why? because you ignore luck and or will of god.  no need to put somebody else down for doing something you have never done before or maybe you have, I dont know.

anyway, like I said before when I take my wife to Hawaii, I am driving or swimming there.  I get too nervous in an airplane.

semp

[Vraciu]

I've been on that river, once it was so bad I threw up. captain sully made a bad situation come out ok. and he got blamed for it, investigation tried to blame him for ditching in the river.

This is pure fiction.   Hollywood.

I dont consider him a hero, hero is used way too many times.  but I do give him credit for landing safely and not losing a soul.  part of it is skill, part of it is god or luck whichever you prefer. luck part was the water was calm.

Here we do not disagree.  Except rough waters would not preclude a successful outcome.   The luck factor in my view was a lack of altitude forced his hand.

I kind of doubt the reference you said before about your friend's wife landed an airplane with smoke in the cabin and not being able to see more than 5 inches.  mostly because that's an exaggeration on your part.

I couldn't care less what you doubt.  I've read the NTSB report on the incident.  The F/O had to get his face right up to the PFD to see it and as they rolled out after touching down they lost sight of the runway.  They couldn't see the handle on the overhead to open it.   They had to go by feel. 

She was, and is, an outstanding aviator in every sense of the word and a few dozen people lived to tell the tale because of this.

  been there in a car,

No, you haven't.   Smoking a doobie in your car is not the same as smoke in cockpit from a blown oil seal.  But then for the sake of argument let's say you have.  Then you quite clearly understand the challenge of an inflight smoke event.

I practiced this in the Falcon sim at Teterboro FSI many years ago to learn how our EVAS worked.   Mine didn't inflate properly and I had to give the jet to the other guy because I couldn't see my hand from as far away as my nose.   Beyond configuring by Braille I was a passenger for the landing because I couldn't see a damned thing.

I think what bothers you is what he said or acted after.  me as a passenger that bothers me.  why? because you ignore luck and or will of god. 

I'm the one who has repeatedly stated he was lucky on multiple levels.  And the fact that he let his ego get ahead of this notion is a real problem.

no need to put somebody else down for doing something you have never done before or maybe you have, I dont know.

Putting him down for ditching?  No.  Putting him down for being an azzhat?  Guilty as charged.

[scott66]

Careful semp MR V read the NTSB report he knows everything... Just ask him

[Vraciu]

Careful semp MR V read the NTSB report he knows everything... Just ask him

Someone's been staring at himself in the mirror too long I think, and I'm not referring to Sullen this time.

Refute me with facts.  I'll wait.  I better grab a Snickers because it'll be a long time before you can find any that will on this topic.

[scott66]

Someone's been staring at himself in the mirror too long I think, and I'm not referring to Sullen this time.

Refute me with facts.  I'll wait.  I better grab a Snickers because it'll be a long time before you can find any that will on this topic.

well give me a second... It's gonna take me a minute to gather up all the names and addresses of the 155 passengers that owe their life to Sully how about that fact .. Enough said I quit you..... Enjoy your snickers azzhat

[guncrasher]

he was an azzhat for losing 2 engines due to bird strike.  it's your fault viraciu dont you train pilots to avoid birds?  no radar?

I have trouble believing you can put your head 5 inches in front of the instrument while having the steering column or whatever you call it in front of her, you would have to really remove it, I cant do it in my car, and I would like to think instruments are that close, then they maybe a bit farther.  was she the pilot or the copilot?

as for me not being able to see, my wife decided to spray herself with body spray and hit the ac just right to go into both of my eyes. I started blinking and all I could see was the steering wheel, and my nose was right next to it.  I went from 45 to a stop safely.  put blinkers on, just by feel.  you could hear me yelling at my wife from 5 miles away.

semp

[Shuffler]

Thank you. In spite of confusion to the contrary, I was not suggesting Sully's name be placed on the calendar. I was only reminding us of a job well done in a myopic world that rarely remembers accomplishments of 3 days previous.

I took it as a calendar event. We have a so many now... even this whole month celebrating black privilege.

he was an azzhat for losing 2 engines due to bird strike.

Not much one can do about that if birds are an issue at an airport. They spend lots of money trying to minimize the problem but birds will be birds. I realize you are referencing someone else.

[Vraciu]

No, he was an azzhat, just like Greg Popovich is, for running his idiotic mouth about things that nobody gives a rat's behind what he thinks and offending half the country--that's over and above all the stupid crap he did after this happened that royally torqued off the true pros in this industry. 

You NEVER saw Al Haynes, Denny Fitch, etc. behave in such an undignified, disgraceful, arrogant manner. 

Sullen Day?  Denied.

I addressed the one quote Shuffler cited, however, I'm not gonna bother reading anything else you write, Semp.   You've lost all credibility on this subject in your role as permanent opposition party.  I could say the sky is blue and you would debate it.

The guy lost both engines and landed in the only place available to him.  Basic Airmanship 101.  Bully for him.  Anoint him king. /sarcastic blue.

/Discussion

[Busher]

I am truly amazed at how "off the rails" this thread has gone. It was initiated by the approaching date. Had it been closer to July 19, I would have also ask for remembrance of Al Haynes, Bill Records, Dudley Dvorak and Dennis Fitch.
Thankfully very few professional pilots are faced with "all or nothing" emergencies, but to compare those incidents to one's personal accomplishments in a Simulator is intellectually corrupt. If you screw-up a simulator ditching the check pilot's debrief pales in comparison to the simulator cab filling with ice cold water.
One member seems to have a personal dislike for Chesley Sullenberger but I might surmise at the risk of incurring HiTech's wrath, that this dislike has it's foundation in this statement:

“For the first time in American history, a president has repeatedly shown utter and vulgar contempt and disrespect for those who have served and died serving our country,” the former pilot wrote. “While I am not surprised, I am disgusted by the current occupant of the Oval Office.”

With that, I would ask HiTech to close or delete the entire thread and I apologize to all for starting it.