Self defense?

[Brooke]

Canada is not Socialist? Are you Canadian? Free Health Care... National Retirement Program.... National Cash Supplement for children + increasing subsidies for child care... I could go on.

No, welfare is not socialism.  Taxes are not socialism.

Socialism is the government owning all the tractor factories, farms, markets, steel mills, etc.

Canada is a capitalist country.  So are Sweden and Denmark.

North Korea and Russia define dictatorial Fascism.

North Korea is socialist, not fascist.

Russia?  Sort of a cleptocracy, I guess.

[Chris79]

Canada is not Socialist? Are you Canadian? Free Health Care... National Retirement Program.... National Cash Supplement for children + increasing subsidies for child care... I could go on.

North Korea and Russia define dictatorial Fascism.

Free lol. Oh you pay for it alright whether you need it or not.
A much higher income tax both at the federal and state level.
A federal sales tax along with a provincial sales tax.
Gas is twice as much, yet the roads are just as bad.
Everything is much more expensive, food, utilities, vices, ect.
My wife is Canadian, we at looked at moving up to either Orangeville or Ottawa back in 2015. At which point I built an aggregate cost of living spreadsheet comparing Sarasota Florida and the two previously listed Canadian cities. Basically, it would have costed us roughly 5000-7000$ a year extra to live in Canada vs Florida. Those calculations were based with us in Florida reaching our family health insurance deductible which has never happened.

[guncrasher]

Were you in 'Nam?

yes  joined when I was 4 left when i was 11.


semp

[SIM]

The only place I would believe semp has ever served is a taco bell drive thru.

[rabbidrabbit]

The only place I would believe semp has ever served is a taco bell drive thru.

I'm in the doubt it crew too given his behavior. 

[Guppy35]

So the KKK isn't made up of conservatives?  They are radical?  Radical Right or Left?  How bout the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Boogaloo boys?  Conservatives or just radicals?  If Antifa represents all liberals, don't those groups represent all conservatives?  Or might Antifa be...wait for it....Radical?

When the Black Panthers protested on the steps of the California Capital armed with shotguns, pistols, carbines etc.  Ronald Reagan and the crew at the time passed the Mulford Act prohibiting open carry.  That was what started California down the road to where it's gun laws are now.

I don't recall any laws passed in Michigan after the open carrying bunch went into their capital?  Wonder what the difference was?  Funny how that works.

Speaking as a center left Democrat who doesn't believe in violence to solve problems.  Am I now Antifa by default?

[rabbidrabbit]

So the KKK isn't made up of conservatives?  They are radical?  Radical Right or Left?  How bout the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Boogaloo boys?  Conservatives or just radicals?  If Antifa represents all liberals, don't those groups represent all conservatives?  Or might Antifa be...wait for it....Radical?

When the Black Panthers protested on the steps of the California Capital armed with shotguns, pistols, carbines etc.  Ronald Reagan and the crew at the time passed the Mulford Act prohibiting open carry.  That was what started California down the road to where it's gun laws are now.

I don't recall any laws passed in Michigan after the open carrying bunch went into their capital?  Wonder what the difference was?  Funny how that works.

Speaking as a center left Democrat who doesn't believe in violence to solve problems.  Am I now Antifa by default?

Have you ever considered that your own behavior is the cause of much of your problems.   Why do you let emotions drive such judgmental and unreasoned behavior?   To say the KKK has anything to do with "conservatives" is just as retarded as saying Antifa has anything to do with establishment Democrats. 

[Guppy35]

They are not but that doesn't stop the bias media and liberals from trying to say they are the same racist mindset

For those with a brain we can see through the manipulation but it seems many are missing that level of reasoning these days...

Eagler

Ahh so it's media bias.  And that's all from the evil left.  None doing it from the right to manipulate the view of the left...umm...errr  

So you are acknowledging you have a brain but the rest of us don't.  Funny how that works.  One of the minimums I learned while earning that useless Liberal Arts Degree in history, that I needed at least three sources independent of each other to help me see what may have occurred.  Even then I needed to keep in mind whatever bias I might have as well.  So before commenting on things I dig for more info from all angles before I say anything as I know those who know everything won't want to listen anyway.  But at least I've done the background work before commenting.

It's not hard to see which programs, websites, news sources etc have obvious bias.   That doesn't stop me from  forming my own view.   But that's right.  I don't have a brain

[Guppy35]

Have you ever considered that your own behavior is the cause of much of your problems.   Why do you let emotions drive such judgmental and unreasoned behavior?   To say the KKK has anything to do with "conservatives" is just as retarded as saying Antifa has anything to do with establishment Democrats.

LOL most folks can tell you I don't get real emotional about things, don't lose my cool, want things to be fair and equal etc.   And what you said was exactly my point.  Does that make it retarded that you didn't understand that?

[rabbidrabbit]

LOL most folks can tell you I don't get real emotional about things, don't lose my cool, want things to be fair and equal etc.   And what you said was exactly my point.  Does that make it retarded that you didn't understand that?

I have read quite a bit of what you write and especially what you have written in this thread is judgmental and emotionally loaded.  You consistently come to conclusions not consistent otherwise.  I'm not attacking you, I'm kinda hoping you have the maturity to reconsider the thought processes that drive you to say the things you do.  There are many ways to process how things are in the world. 

[Guppy35]

Having worked in the social work field for 35+ years I kinda figured I’d been where you suggest I’m not. Having to deal with people who have anger issues or mental health issues tend to require I keep my cool and do what I can to help them get through their latest crisis.

I’m thinking this is an example of how sometimes it’s difficult to interpret written words in these discussions. For whatever reason you are seeing something that is  not there. 

So for the last time.  What angers me as a parent and gun owner is how a 17 year old was in a situation he shouldn’t have been, carrying a weapon he shouldn’t have had. Now the door has been opened for others to do the same. And has shuff has pointed out, we have already see. It with the father and child walking side by side with thier ARs at a protest march

There is no excuse for that in my opinion.  Blaming this, that or the other thing,as the excuse for a kid carrying an AR to a violent protest is pointless. He should not have been there.  Again that is what I feel about what happened.  All the residual excuses for it don’t work.  If he was that fearful of what might happen that he had to take a gun, as a kid, and at 17 he is a kid, he should have stayed home. That his parents didn’t stop him makes it even worse to me. As I said, when my son was 17 he knew his way around ARs and we shot them often in safe settings. Had he done what Rittenhouse did I would have seen it as failure on my part.  No excuses

[DmonSlyr]

So the KKK isn't made up of conservatives?  They are radical?  Radical Right or Left?  How bout the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Boogaloo boys?  Conservatives or just radicals?  If Antifa represents all liberals, don't those groups represent all conservatives?  Or might Antifa be...wait for it....Radical?

When the Black Panthers protested on the steps of the California Capital armed with shotguns, pistols, carbines etc.  Ronald Reagan and the crew at the time passed the Mulford Act prohibiting open carry.  That was what started California down the road to where it's gun laws are now.

I don't recall any laws passed in Michigan after the open carrying bunch went into their capital?  Wonder what the difference was?  Funny how that works.

Speaking as a center left Democrat who doesn't believe in violence to solve problems.  Am I now Antifa by default?

The proud Boys only came about because of the actions of Antifa in Portland. It was a rather small group until the media Streisand effected it. The proud Boys has black and Hispanic members. Some people got tired of Antifa destroying the town with their "CHOP" zones. So they did something about it. Again, had nothing to do with race, like the media wants you to think.

Again though, all of those groups you mentioned have been infiltrated by the FBI. Even the proud Boys had about 5 members who were fbi. I haven't heard much from those groups lately, but I can you that they aren't lynching anyone, and aren't causing $2B in property damage.

One thing I notice is that I see  most liberals defending Antifa rather than shun them, and that includes left government officials and media aswell. It's perfectly justified for them to destroy statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, while then claiming to be "Proud Americans". The subversion is insane. It's clearly easy for me to see that the establishment on both sides has succumbed to the NWO controlled by global institutions run by crooks, but only conservatives recognize it and speak out against it. The democratic party does not, and will shun you for speaking about it. The NWO is anti constitutional but they are using media subversion and people's humanity to sneak UN policies for a global government. It's just unfortunate that democrats fight us over it instead of recognizing it and joining us.

[guncrasher]

The proud Boys only came about because of the actions of Antifa in Portland. It was a rather small group until the media Streisand effected it. The proud Boys has black and Hispanic members. Some people got tired of Antifa destroying the town with their "CHOP" zones. So they did something about it. Again, had nothing to do with race, like the media wants you to think.

Again though, all of those groups you mentioned have been infiltrated by the FBI. Even the proud Boys had about 5 members who were fbi. I haven't heard much from those groups lately, but I can you that they aren't lynching anyone, and aren't causing $2B in property damage.

One thing I notice is that I see  most liberals defending Antifa rather than shun them, and that includes left government officials and media aswell. It's perfectly justified for them to destroy statues of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, while then claiming to be "Proud Americans". The subversion is insane. It's clearly easy for me to see that the establishment on both sides has succumbed to the NWO controlled by global institutions run by crooks, but only conservatives recognize it and speak out against it. The democratic party does not, and will shun you for speaking about it. The NWO is anti constitutional but they are using media subversion and people's humanity to sneak UN policies for a global government. It's just unfortunate that democrats fight us over it instead of recognizing it and joining us.

sure and the lizard people exist.



semp

[SIM]

What angers me as a parent and gun owner is how a 17 year old was in a situation he shouldn’t have been, carrying a weapon he shouldn’t have had.

How do you know what his parents knew about his trip to Kenosha? And, why should he have not had the weapon?

You try and make the point that the kid should have not been there at all. Thats right! I couldn't agree more! But he was, and legally he could be so that was his choice alone.

He LEGALLY had the weapon, he broke no laws in that matter. I don't think it was a good idea at all for him to be there, but it was his right and also his choice to carry the AR.

So exactly why is it you seem so wrapped by it being an AR-15? What if had been a brick, a knife, a ball-bat, what about fireworks, how about a bag with shampoo bottles, a skateboard? What about it being a Glock .40cal pistol?
 Are you going to condemn those sorts of weapons as well? Or will you excuse those......

[Guppy35]

How do you know what his parents knew about his trip to Kenosha? And, why should he have not had the weapon?

You try and make the point that the kid should have not been there at all. Thats right! I couldn't agree more! But he was, and legally he could be so that was his choice alone.

He LEGALLY had the weapon, he broke no laws in that matter. I don't think it was a good idea at all for him to be there, but it was his right and also his choice to carry the AR.

So exactly why is it you seem so wrapped by it being an AR-15? What if had been a brick, a knife, a ball-bat, what about fireworks, how about a bag with shampoo bottles, a skateboard? What about it being a Glock .40cal pistol?
 Are you going to condemn those sorts of weapons as well? Or will you excuse those......

I'm going to ignore the last part.  If you don't know the difference between a kid carrying an AR and a kid carrying a baseball bat, there is nothing I can do to clarify that. 

As for the parenting part.  Are you a parent?  Did you raise teenagers and not know what they were doing and whether or not they were wandering around with firearms?  I sure as heck knew when my 17 year old and his best friend would go up north with the ARs as did his best friend's dad who is a big gun guy.  Any of the guns were purchased by me and he knew well that it was a privilege he got because he was very responsible with them.  Not being responsible would have cost him that.  When he was old enough to buy his own and I was not his legal guardian he would be on his own, but until then no way does he wander with an AR into a dangerous setting.

I'm not arguing the court case at this point.  The trial did what it did.

As for why the AR15 is such a big issue for me is because it's idiots wandering around pretending to be Rambo that have made it a lightning rod in the gun debate.  Without those folks thinking they are going to go 'tactical' all the time, it would not be the lightning rod it is.  They make it harder for those who enjoy shooting, whether it be for fun, for target competitions or 'varmint' hunting etc.  Personally I think if you need a 30 round mag to go hunting, it speaks loudly about your aim, but that's beside the point.  None of that makes it unsafe for people and if that's where ARs had stayed, the conversation would not be taking place.  I've always enjoy them and as I said I got my first in 1979 when I was old enough to buy one. $400 bucks for a Colt SP1.  Those were the days. I still have a couple.  I'm into the simple versions, A1 uppers, no scopes, rails, laser sites, fake M203 launchers, tactical slings etc.  Light and fun to shoot.  But then again I don't see myself ever going tactical in to a dangerous situation either.  As a kid growing up when we had plastic Tommy guns that we could go shoot each other it was one thing.  The rule was you had to count to twenty and you could get up again.  But by the time I had my first AR I'd grown out of that.