Skyyr

[Simon]

Yes it's because the majority don't even try to dogfight anymore..they boom and zoom and run to ack or their pals..

The MA has been trending this way for some years now, but there was always a handful of players around to provide the exception. Those rare, actual dogfights were the secret sauce that kept this game fun for a lot of us, and made the hours of tedium worth it. Especially in the days of the DA, KOTH and duelling tournaments.

What has changed is that handful of players have all but disappeared.

The only choice that's left is to join them. Whether that's abandoning the game or playing uber-cannon HO & run is a decision each player has to make.

I choose, for now, to keep calling it out in hopes that a mind or two might change their perspective.

[GasTeddy]

I think a rolling plane set that would be the best thing that happens to this game/sim.

CAV

I agree with this. For historical reason and respect for veterans of FAF, I'd like to fly with B-239 and 109G2 & G6, but it's pretty hopeless for certain reasons. I presume I've never enjoyed dogfight as much as in B-239, when opponent has similar (= low...) skills and kite. Once killed even Ki-84 after long twisting in low alt. Nowadays more in GVs, Navy guns, bombers (to be 1-pinged even by t-34s) or in a sim with era restricted arenas.

Plus, the if those that consistently fly spit 16s, la7s, yak 3s, etc. wanted to get better, they would have done it by now.  Of course, there are exceptions, but some players just jump in what's easy and go.

IMO, those überkitealtpingers cannot take defeat. It's a question of ego; weak one can't confess they are not as brilliant aces as they claim in forum.

[nopoop]

Rolling plane set would kill the game.  Period, done, over with, kaput...

[CAV]

On top of rolling plane sets, I would also support, returning the radar back to something closer to historically correct, and putting the pilot back in the situational awareness business. I think the AAA is way over modeled for the number of players we currently have. I would fix the 5-in guns and the Flak 88 back to historical standards. I think we need to take a hard look at what players are doing with the buffs... low level flying "DeathStar gunships" isn't helping the game.


If a player from World War II online or IL-2 came over to check out Aces High and saw the Death Star gunships around here, They'd be running back to their respective games.... going you won't believe what those dweebs are doing over in Aces High.


CAV

[waystin2]

Rolling plane set would kill the game.  Period, done, over with, kaput...

I concur.  Rolling plane sets are best left to Scenarios or FSO. 

[nrshida]

Those rare, actual dogfights were the secret sauce that kept this game fun for a lot of us, and made the hours of tedium worth it.

Presently sitting on an already-editted video release directly about this. I believe this and try to be that guy but I've long since abandoned the idea you can convince the Air Quake faction to try. I don't think it's simply experience or ego or the irreversible junction in the road they took, some are just predisposed to 'score' and results to the point all else is secondary. Lose-aversion is a real thing for some. The biggest menace of the D-9 particularly is the dictating of the fight it affords.

[Eagler]

I guess there isn't a way to setup both and see what are the numbers in them...

Eagler

[Oldman731]

I guess there isn't a way to setup both and see what are the numbers in them...

For years we had what amounted to a rolling plane set in the AvA.  The love-for-one-plane-only people simply skipped the arena when their plane wasn't available.  I think this is probably why a rolling plane set would be a problem in the MA - there are quite a few of those people.

As an aside:  We had one ambitious player who figured out how to compress all of the WWII ETO into a one-month rolling plane set, starting basically with Battle of Britain and ending with the 1945 monsters.  It was quite interesting.  For me, the most remarkable thing was seeing what a lengthy period featured only the Spit V vs 109F (with Hurri and 110, too, of course).

- oldman

[Shane]

I loved the AvA (CT) for this reason - it allowed exploring all the planes against their competitive matchups.   That, plus the varied terrains and to a lesser extent maybe the dar settings being tweaked now and then, but even when they were it was still a learning experience.

For years we had what amounted to a rolling plane set in the AvA.  The love-for-one-plane-only people simply skipped the arena when their plane wasn't available.  I think this is probably why a rolling plane set would be a problem in the MA - there are quite a few of those people.

As an aside:  We had one ambitious player who figured out how to compress all of the WWII ETO into a one-month rolling plane set, starting basically with Battle of Britain and ending with the 1945 monsters.  It was quite interesting.  For me, the most remarkable thing was seeing what a lengthy period featured only the Spit V vs 109F (with Hurri and 110, too, of course).

- oldman

[hazmatt]

I was running a player arena for a while that was an island with 3 bases on it and was experimenting with different plane sets but nobody used it so I shut it down.
Maybe if you build it they won't come.

[Wolf]

In my opinion, limited and rolling planesets dont work. There is always a fastest plane oe a plane with bigger guns. Just because you change the planes doesnt change the player behavior.

It seems to me the complaints here are revolving around the player(s) in question using actual wwii tactics. If you read any account of air combat during wwii, it is quite similar to the complaints presented here. 20k planes with great SA, not slowing down, etc. - thats textbook luftwaffe and late war US fighter tactics.

Ive been playing dcs and il2 and theyre all exactly as complained about here. I dont see a problem. Shooting during merges is easily avoided. Also maneuevers arent nullified because someone shoots at you. If you cant dodge a shot or maneuever from a disadvantage, then thats a testament to your own lack of ability or planning. It took me forever to get used to this when i was new, now its second nature.

My point is that no one controls other players. What ive always loved about air combat games is that there is a counter to almost everything. If you think someone else is affecting your gameplay in a combat flight sim, look in a mirror to fimd the culprit.

[CAV]

I always believed it would be fun to do something similar to WW2OL does and have a campaign intermission. Where The main arena is shut down for 3 days, The axis/allies arena becomes the main arena. Run some set-piece battles.... Three days at the Battle of Britain,  Battles along the  English  Channel 41-42, North Africa, Italy,  Eastern Front,  Pacific Theater stuff you know Coral Sea, Midway,  Battle of Leyte Gulf, some hypothetical battles even.

AVA crew had some great stuff happen back in the day.
It would be cool if a lot of that had been saved.

CAV

[hazmatt]

Back when I was flying it seemed that half the merges were ho shots and I got tired of dodging them so I started flying the mossie and if I saw somebody was setting up for a ho shot I wouldn't dodge them. I'd shoot them. I got some real satisfaction from blasting those hoes!

The thing about comparing this to real life scenarios in melee doesn't work for me because I see it as a game and I try to keep it fun. If I saw 2 friendlies vs 1 enemy I would stay out unless somebody was calling for help to make it more sporting. The other thing that was annoying is you're stallfighting and are slowly getting the advantage when suddenly without warning a friendly pony going 600 clears your 12 and denies the kill that you worked so hard for. He then extends a sector and leaves you on your own vs any other enemy that may show up now that you're low and slow. I don't find that to be sporting or fun.

FSO is completely different and I think that WW2 tactics are the only way to try to survive in there. I really do miss the massive FSO of the good ole days.

[fd ski]

as much as i love idea of rolling plane set, it was tried in practice in WB and it did kill the game. First 2 weeks of the month when early war was being played - there was nobody in the arena.

I would recommend different approach - make a map that is divided in 3 separate sections, with 100000ft mountains between them to keep "transfers" out. Early war planes in one section, mid second late last. Put some strategic targets in each, so that if you want to whack radar factory, you just have to pick up He 111

Not sure if that would work, but maybe worth a try ?

[Eagler]

Real shame more don't try MNM and see how much fun a limited planeset can be

Thanks Jaeger1!

Eagler