AI vs AI

[Brooke]

Could a couple of us guys sitting around a table at a diner have mounted D-Day? ...

Could you and your friends in your neighborhood have met on a Sat and built Hoover Dam?

Certain challenges require the organized labor of of nations.

But to be fair, there are large projects accomplished by private orgs:

Suez Canal
British Railway System
Canadian Pacific Railway
US first Transcontinental Railway
The Channel Tunnel
Brooklyn Bridge
Space X (which now launches 90% of the world's space cargo)
Starlink
Trans-Alaska Pipeline System
Keokuk Dam (Miss. river, at time of construction, largest hydroelectric plant in world)
Conowingo Dam (Maryland, at time of construction, 2nd largest US hydroelectric plant)

Also, lots of enormous, complicated multinationals are privately built:
Exxon
Walmart
Microsoft
Apple
Toyota

And many enormous government projects (aircraft carriers, roads, buildings, bridges, dams, nuclear power plants) are not built by the government itself, but the government is a customer of private companies that do the coordination and building.

[CptTrips]

US first Transcontinental Railway

Yes, the U.S. government provided massive financial support and land subsidies for the first Transcontinental Railroad.

President Abraham Lincoln signed the Pacific Railway Act of 1862 into law to officially authorize and fund the project.

Types of Government SupportLand Grants: The government gave the railroad companies millions of acres of public land along the tracks. Companies could sell this land to settlers or use it to secure private loans.
Government Bonds (Loans): The U.S. treasury loaned money to the builders—the Union Pacific and Central Pacific—for every mile of track completed.
Tiered Subsidies: Loan amounts scaled with the difficulty of the terrain:$16,000 per mile for flat plains.$32,000 per mile for foothills or high plateaus.$48,000 per mile for difficult mountain ranges like the Sierra Nevadas.

I wonder how many decades it would have taken for a private company to put a man on the moon.

Some things don't break a profit, but they are still worth doing.
Some things we do as corporations, somethings we need to do as citizens.

Do you want a corporate owned military?
Do you want for-profit cops having the right to incarcerate you?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I don't want a private company, paid by the government, providing constant warrantless surveillance on private citizens, with cameras and AI. But here we are.

[CptTrips]

I don't want a private company, paid by the government, providing constant warrantless surveillance on private citizens, with cameras and AI. But here we are.

How about the private prison industry?

Do we really want a corporation to have a financial incentive to have as many incarcerated Americans as possible?

[Meatwad]

If the criminals deserve to be locked up, then yes. No more catch and release

[CptTrips]

If the criminals deserve to be locked up, then yes. No more catch and release

What about the private prison lobby lobbying for more laws (justified or not) to put more Americans in prison to increase their revenue?  Is that a healthy incentive?

The top donors against cannabis reform are the liquor industry and the private prison industry. 

[AKKuya]

How about the private prison industry?

Do we really want a corporation to have a financial incentive to have as many incarcerated Americans as possible?

If the criminals deserve to be locked up, then yes. No more catch and release

That is a slippery slope.  When a private corporation has total control of a prison system, profit goes up.  How?  Prisoners become the cheapest labor force existing barely above slavery.  All a corporation needs is to build more prisons and house more prisoners.   They will find ways to make profit.

When that happens, corporations will have power to influence local jurisdictions.  Local police will be given bonuses to arrest people on the wimpiest charges.  Speeding, littering, jaywalking, and loitering become felony charges.  That's the start.  More corruption of police and judges will escalate to infringement of speech, religion, guns, and anything to be placed in the prison system.

Look to the Death Race films started with Jason Statham 20 years ago.

I used to play Prison Tycoon on my desktop a long time ago.  I was really good at being a warden.  My prisoners made a lot of profit for me in the prison shops.  My secret was continual pardons at 100%.

Corporation will only allow a pardon if it serves their financial interest.  Released prisoners no longer make profit.  Released prisoners talk of conditions in prisons.  Negative information is negative to the public view on the prison system.  The public is also benefitting from the prison system.  The public wishes to be ignorant.  Ignorance is bliss. 

[CptTrips]

That is a slippery slope. 

Eventually they will make laws that if you fart, you get jail time.  Because someone will make money.

Historical anti-cannabis legalization campaigns have been primarily funded by wealthy individual philanthropists, law enforcement groups, and corporate interests in the pharmaceutical, alcohol, and prison industries. [1, 2] 
Top Individual Donors and Corporate Contributors

• Sheldon Adelson: The late casino billionaire who contributed approximately $5 million to oppose ballot initiatives across states like Nevada, Massachusetts, Arizona, and Florida during the 2016 cycle.
• Julie Schauer: Donated over $1.3 million in California and tens of thousands more in Nevada and Massachusetts opposing legalization measures.
• Mel Sembler: The businessman and former ambassador contributed $1 million to anti-legalization efforts in Florida.
• Insys Therapeutics: The pharmaceutical manufacturer famously contributed $500,000 to oppose recreational marijuana in Arizona (2016) to protect market share for synthetic opioids.
• Corporate and Business Entities: Companies like DriveTime ($250,000 in Arizona) and U-Haul ($25,000 in Arizona), alongside various alcohol and beer distributor political action committees (PACs), have provided financial backing to opposition campaigns. [1, 3] 

Institutional and Industry Opponents

• Law Enforcement Associations: Groups such as the California Police Chiefs Association, the Peace Officers Research Association of California, and the National Association of Police Organizations frequently contribute funds and lobby against reform.
• Private Prison Companies: Organizations like CoreCivic and Wackenhut Corrections have historically supported anti-drug advocacy groups.
• Alcohol and Pharma Lobbying Groups: Major trade groups like the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) and various beer/wine/spirits associations have historically spent millions lobbying against relaxed cannabis laws to mitigate competition. [3, 5] 

AI can make mistakes, so double-check responses

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/heres-who-bankrolls-the-fight-against-marijuana-legalization/
[2] https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/legislation-and-regulation/news/15699379/who-funds-anti-cannabis-movements
[3] https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/oct/22/recreational-marijuana-legalization-big-business
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-cannabis_organizations
[5] https://www.marijuanamoment.net/these-alcohol-pharmaceutical-and-food-companies-lobbied-congress-on-marijuana-and-psychedelics-new-records-show/

Does anyone think a corporation would land troops on Omaha beach?

No.  They would cut a deal to export Zyklon B and make a buck.

There was a time when men found honor in being citizens of a Polis, and not merely a shop-keeper looking to rub two shekels together.

[Brooke]

I wonder how many decades it would have taken for a private company to put a man on the moon.

Some things don't break a profit, but they are still worth doing.
Some things we do as corporations, somethings we need to do as citizens.

Do you want a corporate owned military?
Do you want for-profit cops having the right to incarcerate you?

I'm not arguing or disputing any of those things.

Just saying that private orgs have done some big projects, not zero big projects.

[Brooke]

How about the private prison industry?

Do we really want a corporation to have a financial incentive to have as many incarcerated Americans as possible?

There are gov agencies that get motivated to do things we don't want by getting more profit (or more employees or a larger agency) if the problem gets worse.

For example, I think the homeless situation as handled by LA has huge graft in it, and the people involved are more motivated to keep it going than to solve it.

Both gov systems and private systems can get infested with corruption, grift, ineptitude, inefficiency, counterproductive incentives, etc.  For some things, one or the other system is a clear best way to go -- i.e., yes, for some things the gov should do it, and some private should do it.  For some other things, it's not clear.  Private prisons for me is one where I'm not sure.  I'm guessing gov doing it generally works out best, but I'm not sure.  There is huge trouble with gov systems on how they spend money, because it's not their money.  I see this in proposed costs for new prison in my city, new city hall, etc. that seem exorbitant on price.  But I don't know it well enough to know for sure.

[Brooke]

Does anyone think a corporation would land troops on Omaha beach?

I'm thinking (only half joking here) that Halliburton would (for enough money) do it.

[Eagler]

It's not what the people want..it never is..

More like what the people are told they want/need..

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/data-centers/u-s-govt-moves-to-suppress-pushback-on-data-centers-by-removing-requirements-for-public-input-on-pollution-epa-change-would-allow-air-pollution-permits-without-publicizing-them

Big government gets what it wants regardless what the people say..being these data centers or a totally illegal and very expensive endless war..

Eagler

[CptTrips]

I'm thinking (only half joking here) that Halliburton would (for enough money) do it.

I wouldn't land on that beach for a corporate boss.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

What about the private prison lobby lobbying for more laws (justified or not) to put more Americans in prison to increase their revenue?  Is that a healthy incentive?

The top donors against cannabis reform are the liquor industry and the private prison industry.

They're going to have to get through the Constitution to write more laws.

Besides, we're not incarcerating enough people long enough as it is.

If "for profit" prisons were smart, they'd spend their lobby money on campaign support for tougher prosecutors. And judges.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

It's not what the people want..it never is..


Big government gets what it wants regardless what the people say.

Eagler

Because the people are stupid and lazy. And want something for nothing, at the cost of everyone else.