player ethos in the bucket

[-gg-]

In my opinion if you want completely fair you eliminate ENY.

I understand that overall the game is fair because everybody has the same rules, but it ends up being not fair in a practical sense because ENY is not applied to everybody at the same time.


Just because I happen to be on the side that has numbers at the moment. That's not my fault but I'm penalized for it and I have to take a crap plain and fly against people who are better than me so they can shoot me down easier? I don't like that. And then the other option is to either log off or change sides. And then when you change sides possibly flips the other way and then you get screwed anyway and then you can't change back. Lol.

But I'm not changing sides. I don't like to goof around and try to equalize the game for someone else. I don't mind if I'm outnumbered or anything else that goes on the game. I don't care who rolls bases or anything. I just want an even chance to fight against another person. And I don't like being penalized for whatever is happening in the arena that's beyond my control.

Get rid of the ENY. Keep the perk system and all that. Give newbies free planes I don't care. Just don't penalize me for no other reason than to give someone else an easier chance at killing me. Why am I being penalized?

[toasted]

In my opinion if you want completely fair you eliminate ENY.

I understand that overall the game is fair because everybody has the same rules, but it ends up being not fair in a practical sense because ENY is not applied to everybody at the same time.


Just because I happen to be on the side that has numbers at the moment. That's not my fault but I'm penalized for it and I have to take a crap plain and fly against people who are better than me so they can shoot me down easier? I don't like that. And then the other option is to either log off or change sides. And then when you change sides possibly flips the other way and then you get screwed anyway and then you can't change back. Lol.

But I'm not changing sides. I don't like to goof around and try to equalize the game for someone else. I don't mind if I'm outnumbered or anything else that goes on the game. I don't care who rolls bases or anything. I just want an even chance to fight against another person. And I don't like being penalized for whatever is happening in the arena that's beyond my control.

Get rid of the ENY. Keep the perk system and all that. Give newbies free planes I don't care. Just don't penalize me for no other reason than to give someone else an easier chance at killing me. Why am I being penalized?

Eny probably isnt going anywhere, Dale likes it, and it can be a useful tool.
Maybe a simple compromise of being able to use perk points for eny planes. Something like 50 points for a 5 eny plane would probably do it. along with a eny rebalance of the existing planeset.

id like to see all the 5 eny planes perked just to get some variety, but that wont happen either.

[-gg-]

Eny probably isnt going anywhere, Dale likes it, and it can be a useful tool.
Maybe a simple compromise of being able to use perk points for eny planes. Something like 50 points for a 5 eny plane would probably do it. along with a eny rebalance of the existing planeset.

id like to see all the 5 eny planes perked just to get some variety, but that wont happen either.

A useful tool that puts one player at a disadvantage for the sake of another. That's my problem with it. I don't want the disadvantage OR the advantage. I want an equal plane set to what anyone else is able to select from.

Rather than penalize players, give the outnumbered side cheaper perk planes or something. Don't take stuff away from anyone.

[Animl-AW]

Eny probably isnt going anywhere, Dale likes it, and it can be a useful tool.
Maybe a simple compromise of being able to use perk points for eny planes. Something like 50 points for a 5 eny plane would probably do it. along with a eny rebalance of the existing planeset.

Agreed

Lawlessness will not promote fairness it will exploit it. They try to break ENY, they will try to break much more without it

It all looks good on paper to remove rules and road blocks. Its when you thrown in human nature it burns like a bonfire.

Issue is to tweak it to work right. Which HT has already acknowledged he is willing to do.

Repeats just get ignored. That war will not be won

I don’t care for ENY, I don’t like stopping for stop signs either.

[-gg-]

Another way to put this is that ENY system that makes you not have as much fun during certain times that you play because other people are not having as much fun, so the penalty has to turn against you so that they can have more fun while you don't have fun.
And it's only fair in the fact that it can happen to anyone. So one day maybe it'll be someone else's turn not to have fun because they can't play on an even playing field.

So it's like, tough crap. The two hours that you have to fly tonight you're going to only be able to pick crappy planes because this is your turn to sacrifice for the other team. The other team needs to have more fun or the ability to kill you easier and you just have to take it tonight. So either stop complaining or log off. Lol.

[Spikes]

The fundamental aspect of ENY is that it is compensating for more numbers on one side without forcing players to another side. You might be forced to fly a P-51B instead of a P-51D, or an La-5 instead of an La-7, but the side you fly on has X% more players. Logically, there is a good chance you'd have more friendlies in the fight with you. The rationale is that an La-5 + P-51B vs. a P-51D (or insert any low ENY value plane here) is considered "fair".

I assume that ENY rarely gets high enough to force people into "crap planes" (at least as far as the MA is concerned) like the C.202, 110C, or P-40C. I'm talking higher than 30. I'm sure Lusche could provide more numbers info. I also believe there is an upper limit to the max ENY number, but no idea what that is. 31 maybe?

Most multiplayer games have some sort of side balancing in place. Most force you to another side or don't let you join a particular side upon entry. ENY is a decent compromise. There's a server in IL2 that has no side balancing and is often 2:1, sometimes 3:1, and it isn't real fun getting piss pounded by Tempests and Ponies every sortie.

I do think that players should be able to switch to the lower # side at any time. That would alleviate a lot of issue. I don't really care what side I fly on, but I don't like the auto-switch because sometimes it pulls you away from a good fight.

[Mayhem]

Eny ....

[toasted]

A useful tool that puts one player at a disadvantage for the sake of another. 

it's not that personal, the intent is to put one entire side at a disadvantage to negate the major advantage in numbers they have. I see it kind of as a for the good of all thing.

on the other hand, i do agree sometimes the punishment is so harsh that it is no longer worth playing. This causes players to log off. That is not ideal.

of course if people are getting constantly horded 5-1 by ponies they are gonna log also.

and since people would revolt if you forced team balancing, options are kind of limited.

there needs to be some compromises i think. Ideally something that doesnt leave players feeling they have to log off.
maybe when eny kicks in, a pop up that gives some free perk to anyone willing to jump sides.

[Animl-AW]

Another way to put this is that ENY system that makes you not have as much fun during certain times that you play because other people are not having as much fun, so the penalty has to turn against you so that they can have more fun while you don't have fun.
And it's only fair in the fact that it can happen to anyone. So one day maybe it'll be someone else's turn not to have fun because they can't play on an even playing field.

So it's like, tough crap. The two hours that you have to fly tonight you're going to only be able to pick crappy planes because this is your turn to sacrifice for the other team. The other team needs to have more fun or the ability to kill you easier and you just have to take it tonight. So either stop complaining or log off. Lol.

With all due repeat. No matter how you paint the same intent, repeat until the world goes flat, it will not remove it. It won’t he the magic wand. <shrug>

These points have all been made over 5000 times. Its not a new approach.
It’s kinda beating a dead horse

<S>

[-gg-]

I'm entitled to voice my opinion. Customer giving feedback. I don't need others to tell me my experience is invalid - because it's 100 percent valid. During the time that I play, I am usually unable to fly planes that others are able to fly and it's not through any fault of mine. It's taking my game experience and penalizing me and there's no other way you can word that. That's the net effect of it.

Take my ability to choose a good plane because some other player is on a side that has three less players. That's messed up.


Taking away from my game experience so someone else can enjoy the game a little more while I enjoy it less.

[-gg-]

Also, ENY doesn't seem to solve anything. You still see people here crying about gang-banging. Animl, you complain about gang banging. So what does ENY solve? Still get gang banged, Still have to be outnumber and people still complain.

ENY causes people to sit in the tower to wait it out. Some people stick it out until they get tired of being shot down. Some people log. 18Whiskey logged off for two or three days because of it. I see it every night.

Last night, for awhile, we actually have ENY is our favor. That's the first time in maybe three weeks or more that I have EVER seen even a 1.0 perk bonus on our side. I fly maybe 2 hours a night and I can not remember the last time that has happened.

I don't mind being outnumbered. I don't care. That doesn't bother me.

[toasted]

I'm entitled to voice my opinion. Customer giving feedback. I don't need others to tell me my experience is invalid - because it's 100 percent valid. During the time that I play, I am usually unable to fly planes that others are able to fly and it's not through any fault of mine. It's taking my game experience and penalizing me and there's no other way you can word that. That's the net effect of it.

Take my ability to choose a good plane because some other player is on a side that has three less players. That's messed up.


Taking away from my game experience so someone else can enjoy the game a little more while I enjoy it less.

Your opinion is valid. I just don't think the solution can be to drop eny completely. I agree that would be a quick fix, but it will introduce other issues. I think if we want it to change we have to find some valid compromise that expands the system in a way that gives players options and incentives.

[toasted]

Also, ENY doesn't seem to solve anything. You still see people here crying about gang-banging. Animl, you complain about gang banging. So what does ENY solve? Still get gang banged, Still have to be outnumber and people still complain.

ENY causes people to sit in the tower to wait it out. Some people stick it out until they get tired of being shot down. Some people log. 18Whiskey logged off for two or three days because of it. I see it every night.

Last night, for awhile, we actually have ENY is our favor. That's the first time in maybe three weeks or more that I have EVER seen even a 1.0 perk bonus on our side. I fly maybe 2 hours a night and I can not remember the last time that has happened.

I don't mind being outnumbered. I don't care. That doesn't bother me.

and to be fair in general i agree. i dont care about being outnumbered as much as being hampered in choice.

[Spikes]

So what does ENY solve? Still get gang banged, Still have to be outnumber and people still complain.

I just explained what it solves. Hitech explained what it solves. If you didn't have ENY and had forced side balancing, people would complain. If you had no side balancing and it was always 2:1:1 or 3:1:1, people would complain. People are always going to complain.

[-gg-]

I just explained what it solves. Hitech explained what it solves. If you didn't have ENY and had forced side balancing, people would complain. If you had no side balancing and it was always 2:1:1 or 3:1:1, people would complain. People are always going to complain.

Why would you have to have forced side balancing if ENY was removed?

ENY does not make people change sides  that I've ever seen. Only a very small percentage of players have auto-side switching enabled and those are the only people I ever see changing sides.

Most people sit in the tower waiting for ENY to change, or they will fly a crap plane that they don't want to fly or they will log before they will switch sides.