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Author Topic: Realistic Features Poll  (Read 1124 times)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2002, 02:00:38 PM »
What I find amusing is the fact that most of the guys asking for more complex and difficult realism aren't worth a damn even with what we got.
lazs
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Online Oldman731

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« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2002, 02:15:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by K West
Well. I have to admit failure for not finding what I thought would be irrefutable anecdotes that aircombat is fatiguing on the spot and not just a physical let down later and after the fact.  


If memory serves, Sakai's account of his fight with the Hellcats over Iwo Jima mentions that his arm was getting tired and he was worried that, for that reason, he soon wouldn't be able to roll out of the Hellcats' way.

Caiden's "Black Thursday" (worthless for many reasons, but not this one) and Ambrose's recent book on George McGovern both mention how tiring it was to fly (respectively) B-17s and B-24s, particularly in formation.

I imagine that it was simply quite rare for a fighter pilot to be involved in a continuous dogfight for as long as Sakai was, and that's why you don't have more examples like this.

- oldman
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Offline K West

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« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2002, 03:16:14 PM »
"What I find amusing is the fact that most of the guys asking for more complex and difficult realism aren't worth a damn even with what we got."

  So just what is your point?


 Thanks Oldman :)   That's one account I'd forgotten about as it has been a long time since I'd read his book.


 Rgr that Maniac!  I hope it's modelled in those early war planes that experienced that problem.

     Westy
« Last Edit: January 23, 2002, 03:18:15 PM by K West »
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Offline Durr

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« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2002, 11:10:28 PM »
Have you ever noticed that most people ask for changes that they think would benefit them more than the average sim pilot in here?  For example, in real life I am a navigator, so personally I would like to see the moving map icon taken away, and everybody forced to actually navigate!  It would be easy for me, but I imagine that many would find it frustrating.  This is how it goes with many of these things.  People that trim manually, often suggest that autotrim be done away with, a move that wouldnt affect them, but would cause the people that currently dont use manual trim  to have problems for a little while, at least until they learned how.  

Nevertheless, while I understand the point of those that like some crutches for gameplay purposes (ID tags, moving map, autotrim, etc.) I am a realism freak and I wholeheartedly support any features that increase the realism level.  People will complain about how hard it is for a little while, but then they will adapt and soon they fly just fine with manual trim or whatever.   Bring on the realism features!
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2002, 11:38:33 PM »
(ugghh.....irresistible....for ce           causing me to... ahrghh! ...post reply..... AHHHHH!)

Hey Durr, did it ever occur to you that some of the things you consider "crutches" are actually added to make some things limited by the computer venue or the programming "more realistic"?

For example, if you'll check in the Help Forum, you'll find a GREAT explanation by Andy Bush on why the manual trimming in AH is.. well... unrealistic. Combat Trim was added as an attempt to partially fix this.

ID Tags? Ever occur to you that a 2D monitor offers you less visual information than your Mark I eyeball does when looking out of an aircraft canopy? Once again, an attempt to compensate for inherent limitations that make this venue "less realistic". Check a thread called "Visual Realism Test" in the Gameplay Forum. (I think that's where it is.)

Now, you may not like the implementations of certain attempts to "add realism"...


(argghh.. must.... stop... typing............HAH!).
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Offline Durr

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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2002, 11:52:39 PM »
I like the game just fine the way it is.  I was just saying that if there is a vote about realism, mark me down on the side of realism.  However, I think AH has an awesome balance of realism and gameplay as it stands now.   I still think that people like to see changes in things that they think help them at the expense of other players though.  Its just human nature.  That was the real point of the post, not to complain about id tags or auto trim.
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Offline Lizard3

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« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2002, 04:55:34 AM »
Anyone ever see a movie about acrobat pilots who flew competition? I believe the Kung Fu Caradine was in it. This guy had this superduper unreal manuever that was gauronteeed to win him the competion, if he lived through it. I don't remember how it ended, but during the film these guys were gruntin and groanin, nose bleeding etc. Anyone remember the name? Its been decades since I've seen it and don't really remember how it ends...


I would attend to Ginger first, then Maryanne. Then I would go back and see Ginger when she had recovered somewhat.:D
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Offline Maniac

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« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2002, 05:28:11 AM »
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Combat Trim was added as an attempt to partially fix this.


Pfft! and here i tought they added Combat Trim instead for an Easy Mode! its funny how history in AH revrites itself every now and then :rolleyes:

Oh almost forgot! if Combat Trim is an attempt to try to fix the unrealistic "manual trim" how come we still got manual trim in AH?

Yes Andy Bush, hes the one who thinks Padlock is realistic too.

Frankly i dont care about realism anymore, this is an game and it will never be realistic, all i want is the HARDEST game to do good in.

Any feature that makes this game harder is welcome imho.

Regards.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2002, 06:13:55 AM by Maniac »
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2002, 07:19:06 AM »
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Originally posted by Maniac


Pfft! and here i tought they added Combat Trim instead for an Easy Mode! its funny how history in AH revrites itself every now and then :rolleyes:


Please show me any sort of support for the statement that Combat Trim was intended as an Easy Mode (other than from players that really have nothing but their own opinion to go on).

Why don't you give HT a call and see what he says about it?

Quote
Oh almost forgot! if Combat Trim is an attempt to try to fix the unrealistic "manual trim" how come we still got manual trim in AH?


My guess is because that way the cut out most of the whining and wailing and gnashing of teeth from folks that think one "dit" of trim, one tiny spin of the trim wheel, one "keyboard click" of elevator trim actually WOULD put your WW2 aircraft in a 1500 FPM ROC. :D

Quote
Yes Andy Bush, hes the one who thinks Padlock is realistic too.


Don't know... don't remember reading his opinion on Padlock. Got a link?

I'll say this.. Andy has FAR, FAR more experience in flying and teaching ACTUAL air combat than 99% of the people that post here.

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Frankly i dont care about realism anymore, this is an game and it will never be realistic,


Ah, you seem here to understand the limitations of the PC flight sim!


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all i want is the HARDEST game to do good in.


May I suggest trying winning at the everyday game of life? ;)


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Any feature that makes this game harder is welcome imho.


Judging by the nitely attendance in the CT, those that hold an opinion similar to yours make up somewhere around 8% of the player base.

Not a good or bad thing... just an apparent truism. I'm glad there is a CT as a choice for folks that want to artificially make things harder.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2002, 07:24:33 AM by Toad »
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Offline K West

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« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2002, 08:04:53 AM »
"I'm glad there is a CT as a choice for folks that want to artificially make things harder."

 Not that I'm a proponant of adding or changing anything to make things harder just for the sake of it.  Being that it is ALL artificial. I'm basically and simply anti-easy for the sake of the slowest common denomiator ;)

Westy



 (GPS maps was on my list btw :) nothing as small, restrictive and unrealistric as what WW2O uses.  Pilots had larger maps after all.  But I'd welcome some challenge to navigating online)
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Offline Maniac

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« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2002, 08:06:58 AM »
Well Westy seems like you have an new item to put on your poll :

Remove Manual Trim

Regards.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2002, 08:16:02 AM »
Westy,

Easy/Hard and Realistic/Unrealistic are not linked arguments.

(Something that is Easy is not necessarily Unrealistic. Similarly, something that is Hard is not necessarily Realistic.)

That being said, sometimes the situations DO intersect.

The argument that "Easy = Unrealistic" & "Hard = Realistic" isn't valid as a generalization about any particular feature. Much more goes into it than that as many have discussed..... but some folks just can't/won't accept the invalidity for whatever reasons. Maybe the simplicity of the mantra is appealing. ;)

That's all I'm saying.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2002, 08:29:01 AM »
trimmng a realplane is easy and intuitive...  "automatic"  using "manual trim" in AH is gamey.
lazs

"maniac"?   oh, I get it.... sorta like calling a really tall guy "shorty"?
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Offline Maniac

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« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2002, 08:31:46 AM »
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"maniac"? oh, I get it.... sorta like calling a really tall guy "shorty"?


Uh? well i dont get it... can you please explain this sentence further so i can give an response...
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2002, 08:41:09 AM »
I dunno... I just expect my "maniac's" to be a little less fussy..  A little less interested in anal details.
lazs
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