Media bias?

[Nashwan]

Gloria spouts off a statistic about how many people are murderd with handguns
Archie replies "would it make ya feel better little girl if they was pushed out the window?"

It's a lot easier to kill with a gun.

There were several attacks by nutters on schools in the UK in the 90s.

1 involved a man armed with a machete, who broke into a kindergarten and started attacking children and teachers. A woman managed to fend him off, and suffered severe arm injuries.

1 was a man who walked into a school, stabbed a young girl dead before being overpowered by a teacher.

the third was a man in Northern Ireland, who made a flamethrower out of a fire extinguisher and used it in an attack on his former school. Three children were badly burned, but survived.

The fourth was in Dunblane, where a man with a handgun walked into a school and shot 16 children and their teacher dead.

[AKDejaVu]

Hey Ripsnort.. what's the source of your information?

AKDejaVu

[Thrawn]

I real can't understand how gun control people can be so simplistic in there logic (or lack there of)

Simplistic?  Kind of like this?

Gloria spouts off a statistic about how many people are murderd with handguns
Archie replies "would it make ya feel better little girl if they was pushed out the window?"

do they really honestly think somebody makes a decision to kill somebody then it hits them "damn, I don't have a gun... I guess he gets to live"?

You got your self a crime of passion about to happen.  A is pissed off at B.  A has a gun and blows away B.  You got a dead B

Another crime of passion.  A is pissed off at B.  A has a pair of pantyhose and chases after B with said pantyhose.  A realises what is happening...hilarity ensuse.  One out of breath, but very alive B.

Simple enough?

[Tuomio]

I would rather be strangled with pantyhose, than be shot..

Its A LOT harder to kill somebody without a gun. You can still do it, but you need something that criminals usually lack. Muscles, skills and plan.

ugh

[ispar]

Sorry, that "people kill people," while true, doesn't totally fly. If someone is planning to kill someone and a gun is not available, they will use other available weapons. But they are more likely to fail, and they will not be able to kill many people, and hopefully none before being subdued. The other example, a crime of passion (heat of the moment) is given. If the person who loses it and attacks someone has a gun, the other person is a lot more likely to die than if they use a knife, or a board, or pantyhose or whatever. Handgun death statistics are not merely indicative of a high murder rate, they are indicative of greater handgun availability to people, be they criminals or otherwise. People with guns often don't mean to kill, but it happens anyway.

[Ripsnort]

So, the spoon is what made Rosie O'Donnell fat, should we outlaw spoons?

Guns are fine. Its the culture, the people that make them lethal.

Deja, it was on a radio talk show local host here within Seattle.

[Udie at Work]

I wonder if there are any stats on crimes/murders stopped w/ pantyhose?  There have been a crap load of crimes stopped w/ guns. Fact is there are too many guns out there to ever think about getting rid of them.  That's without even thinking about how easy it is to make a pop gun or a pipegun.

 Here in Texas things "appear"  to be better now that there is a concealed carry permit.  I haven't seen any actual stats or anything, but I'm not hearing about 6 murders every night on tv like I was before the law.   I know I think twice before starting toejam with somebody, never know who's got one ya know.

 So when you make guns illegal are you going to then make everything that could be used to make a gun illegal?  Hell the anarchist cookbook tells how to make a bomb strong enough to blow your hand off out of a pen, some salt peter, vaseline and another couple of "key" ingrediants  Should we make pens illegal?

[funkedup]

Hey furriners, NEWS FLASH

We don't give a toejam about your opinions on our firearms laws.  Don't waste your breath.

[Trell]

News!

The new wepon of choice for drive bys


Spud Guns    

Use a biodrgradable bullet to kill people!

lol

Fenrir

[Pongo]

sigh
guns dont kill people..
gun lovers kill people.

[midnight Target]

Is this where I'll find the 2nd Amendment wackos? Been lookin all over for a new group to pummel me since that Evolution thread hit 180.

Surprise surprise....I like guns. I like shooting guns for sport. Some guns should be banned though. We don't need citizens with automatic rifles or derringers for that matter.
Guns are good for hunting and sport shooting, they are bad for personal protection. The statistics I believe will back me up on this.

And PLEASE don't tell me the constitution guarantees your right to a gun.

Fire away (in a manner of speaking)

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
So, the spoon is what made Rosie O'Donnell fat, should we outlaw spoons?

Apples, Oranges.  Being fat isn't illegal, shooting someone is.

Guns are fine. Its the culture, the people that make them lethal.

Might agree with you there.  Swiss all have assault rifles in their basements.  As far as I know they don't go around shooting each other.

What's wrong with US society that they have such a relatively high numer of firearm related homicides?

[ispar]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Guns are fine. Its the culture, the people that make them lethal.

Sigh. I'm not arguing with you here. That's precisely the point. Believe it or not, I don't think ultra-strict gun control is a solution. Whether you like to acknowledge it or not, the level of gun deaths in this country are quite high. What needs to be done about that is a tough call. Gun control, as you've mentioned, begs the question of personal defense. From my point of view, that's no good reason to own a gun. But other people feel safer with weapons around, and guns do act as a deterrent to would-be criminals if they are present. The problem is one of culture; the question is, where is it?

A thought that I've had: guns are highly available here, both through legitimate and illegitimate means. They are also cheap. Could that be part of the problem? It's so easy to get a gun that people who don't otherwise own them and wouldn't aquire one purchase one when there is dirty work that needs to be done?

I don't think I buy it... it brings us back to the gun control and sale limit discussion, which may not work at all.

[Ripsnort]

Looks like we agree on some points.  One thing I would like to see before we have any more gun laws on the books is that we start enforcing the ones we already have on the books and making the criminals do the time for the crime.  

As to why our US culture is violent in regards to guns? BIG can of worms there, and to be short and to the point, its my opinion that it begins with the family.  More quality time spent with parents rather than TV, less divorce, teaching kids fire arm safety thru Fire arms safety training schools,keeping them off of drugs, being "intrusive" into their personal lives in the teenage years...all that combined would prevent about 95% of the violence associated with guns.

[ispar]

Since I rarely agree with you Rip, I'll cherish the moment .

I think you've got some good points there. I won't discuss them, except that to say WRT to drugs that I think alcohol in particular has been a factor in a number of gun deaths/crimes, IIRC.

Additionally, I think you make a good point with safety classes. Anyone who has not attended a seminar, a class, or in some other way been instructed in the proper care and handling of a firearm should not own one. Guns may not kill people per se, but they are dangerous if not treated and handled with care. I don't think anyone will disagree with that.