A 'Primer' for new LW pilots.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Drex
Thats my setup for a fight.  That means you partly suck btw.

If I'm flying at all like you, I must be sucking badly!

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Naudet]

Dead Man, what u describe as aggressiveness is the way i die much to often. To me it seems it exactly what will put me infront of the guns of my tgt.

Anyway were i try to reverse without having D2.0+ will result in my death. Only if the other guy is a real dumb one, this will be the outcome.

[BOOT]

WOW,  Gents what a great thread...

  I printed it for study...
  Thanks for taking the time to  put this all together


Now... Anybody up to tackling the same with the P-38 ?


BOOT

[milnko]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying Why would you zoom to 3k above the Spit when 900 yards work just as well?

I think the major limitation of computer simulated BFM/ACM is the lack of depth perception.

Because of this, it's often hard to judge "E" state of the enema, so a cyberjock extends farther than needed in self-defense.

You are correct that zooming to 3k is less aggressive, however sometimes a more conservative attack is wiser than running the risk is screwing the pooch.

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying You don't need to turn with the Spit to be aggressive, but there are ways to press your particular plane's advantages without fighting the other guy's fight.

-- Todd/Leviathn

And this gents is the "trick" to the whole K/D ratio equation. He who fights on his terms, knows his limitations as well as his enemies is gonna be ranked "ACE".


Very good post Urchin. I enjoyed reading it.

[mauser]

I've been on the wrong end of both Nath and Leviathn a couple of times and have a bit on and idea of their aggressive flying style.  I remember noticing a low 109 over the water off A11 in ndisles against one or two bish many tours ago.  I was several k higher in a D-hog, so I began diving to attack speed.  Nath killed the (or both) bish and noticed me coming.  I noticed he didn't take the HO, but was going full speed to get under me.  Seeing this before, I kept going, jinking a bit as he was going under me and diving for speed.  I looked back and sure enough he pulled a very quick immelman and was shooting at me.  Thankfully I was far enough away, or I would've been missing vital parts.  I notice a lot of the better guys going for these quick immelmans to go for belly shots.  It also gets them on your six very quick, and if I don't have enough energy advantage, pulling a climb to rope is still too risky given their shooting ability.  Seen this last night in the CT versus Manedew and Dbltrbl in their Hellcats (I was in a Ki-61).  Going full out under me, so I would roll to put my side profile to them and get out of plane then continue extending.  They are good enough shots anyway and I got a hit with a couple pings this way w/o damage.  Without enough e-advantage I didn't feel confident enough to reverse back on them when they hit the peaks of their immelmans, so I just left.  I even tried a gentle climb on one of these occasions, but due to their speed they went from d850 or so to d900 then back to d850 and closing, so I gave up and dove for it.

I think I know what Leviathn is saying wrt extending to 900 and reversing and extending to 3k and reversing.  It does requires you have a very good handle on whether or not your target has the ability to point his/her nose at you though when you decide to reverse.  I've been burned enough before misjudging their speed/E so I normally play it safe.  I know there have been many instances when I've felt damn glad I didn't try to reverse too quickly.  Having your target's nose come around or up so quickly is a surprise, and I know if I hadn't elected to extend a bit more I would've been hit bad.  There is a lot of timing/judging involved which I know I haven't got down yet, but at least I think I have an idea of what it takes.  

Flying LW planes (specifically the 190 for me) does indeed entail good snapshot skills.  To me it also requires a good ability to judge energy states and good anticipation of what your target or attacker will do next before he/she does it (you know, like using the force ).  Having a good handle on both, I can see how flying the four cannon A8 would be extremely deadly for opponents.  Having said all that, I'm still not sure if I hit the nail on the head wrt what Nath and Leviathn are getting at.  I myself fly very conservatively for the most part (I'm guilty of boring Leviathn to death one evening many tours ago when he was in a tiff and I elected to fly a P51D).  Getting a little better at judging E-states so I don't wait so long to reverse now, so I get a few more rope kills than I used to.  

mauser

[Urchin]

Naudet, I think maybe being unpredictable is better than being 'aggressive' in the pure sense of the word.  There are different levels of aggression.  For instance, lets say you spot a lone Spitfire about 5 thousand feet below you.  Of course, you dive on it, and you really hope it doesnt see you so you can get an easy kill .  Unfortunately, he does see you, and breaks into your attack.  The least aggressive option you have here is to simply zoom off and go looking for someone with less SA.  The most aggressive option is to simply accept the HO and hope you have better aim than he does (this one I very rarely take ).  Or, you can do a short zoom, watch out the back of your canopy to see what he does, and then attack again.  

Lets say for our purposes that he merely continues flying straight after he breaks into your first attack.  You zoom to set up for another attack.  You come out in a fairly steep dive coming from his 6.  Lets say he does a hard break turn to the left at a range of 600 yards.  Again, you have a few options here.  You can just abort the pass and zoom up again (like you did the first time).  You can go for the shot anyway and possibly expose yourself to a snapshot from the Spitfire when you overshoot.  The third option is best, and what I normally do.  I'll pull up like I'm zooming, but I'll keep a visual on the Spitfire.  If he tries to barrel roll or turn to his original course, I'll simply come right back down after him after my 'short' zoom.  If he stays in his break turn, I'll climb and then do a 'high yo-yo' (basically you pull up into a zoom, then roll so the top of your head is pointed to where the spitfire is going to go [the technical term is 'lift vector], then cut inside of his turn and go for the shot.  

The nice thing about being in a Dora against a Spitfire is you can be VERY aggresive, even to the point of foolhardiness.  As long as you stay above 300 mph, the Spitfire can't touch you (assuming you started off in the attacking position).  You can turn with him if he tries to break turn out of your way, if you miss the shot just roll wings-level and disengage, he can't do a damn thing about it.

[Lephturn]

The level of aggresivenss is also dependent on your shooting ability.  One thing the really good players can all do is shoot amazingly well.  I can't shoot for beans, so I have to play accoringly.  Torque in his C-Hog is one of the best shooters ever to play AH, and that's why he was so deadly.  If you are a crack shot, you can fly for snapshots very aggresively and it's extremely difficult to deny your attacker a snapshot at some point in a fight.  The trick is, you can't be quite that aggressive in going for the snapshots unless you are flying a bird that can kill with a snap, and you are a good enough shot to connect a high percentage of the time.  Practice your gunnery, and know your own limits.  The reason guys like Nath, Cit, etc. are so deadly is that if you give them even one snapshot opportunity, you are most likely toast.  Just realise that if you are not that great a shot or are flying a plane that can't do good damage with a snapshot, you may have to rachet down the aggressiveness a bit... you may have to be patient and fly for tracking shots.  If in doubt, you want to be more aggressive and as unpredictable as you can be without doing dumb things.

Above all, if you go hard aggressive and MISS that snapshot, you need to know when and how to get the heck out of there before you get killed.  I fly the Jug a lot, so if I'm fighting a Spit IX from a position of advantage, I can often burn my E advantage for a snapshot opportunity... but the hard part is realising if I've missed that shot that I'm no longer at an advantage and must escape or die.  It's a fine line.

[Naudet]

Ok from the description of Urchin and Mauser, i think nothing is wrong with my flying.

Actually what Urchin described is what i most often do against a lone spit.

Attack with speed, keep fast, use the vertikal to track him.

And you, lephturn hit the point why i lately could throw AH out of the window.
I have from any data i can get the best con ever to AH. An average ping of 185ms and not spikes in variance and queue time. Also no package loss.
Those figures really look wonderful to me (compared with the past), but about 80% of my missed snapshot go to lag issues, same with about 75% of my deaths.

By reading this thread, i think my continuing frustration with AH in the last month, is not skills related but connection related.

I see it this way now, i am doing everything right, but success is denied by pure troubles of connection.

So what i will do now, is give AH one more month to see if the things are getting better, if not i got to leave, cause it really is frustrating if fun is ruined by pure technical troubles.


Edit: This morning again a day of ridculous lag and extrem gameplay troubles. It is just so that you can laugh, actually AH has at the moment nothing from a sim or even an arcade shooter. It would make no difference if i would fly blind, cause i cant even trust my eyes.

[Wotan]

punt

[Duedel]

GREAT THREAD!!!

The 190A5 is my favorite ride in the MA. In the beginning in H2H I often flew the 109G10. Urchin you said the 109G10 turns better than the 190A5. I'm not sure but I doubt that this is right. Neither in an initial turn nor in a sustained turn I have the feeling that the 109G10 turns better (it's a feeling not my knowledge).
I fly the 190A5 agressive and most often I could turn about 180° with N1K and Spit 9 if my speed is about 250 - 300mph. This leaves me the opportunity to get in pursuit and sometimes in lead persuit and kill the bogey or get a good snap shot if the enemy changes direction. Also I most often have an escape window that leaves me with the enemy behind at d800 but less energy than me.
The 190D9 I try to fly very unagressive and mature but to be honest with much much lesser success (my flying in it is a flop   ) as the 190A5.
I'm curious about flying the 109G2 which will be my next ride.
Thanks for all the good information.

To you Naudet: What connection do u use? I've no problems with lag and are very few cons that are warping. I live in Bremen and use TDSL. Maybe it's ur system thats slow?

[MANDOBLE]

Naudet, aggresiveness is a key factor to kill "good" spit drivers with the D9, else you are playing their game.

Basically, a good spit driver will not follow you in the vertical when you have a noticeable E advantage over him. He will level, or even dive a bit trying to keep above 250 mph and waiting for you to come back. If you dive over that Spit, before you get into the 1k range he will turn really fast near or in the corner speed range and you will have 2 hispanos pointing at your nose. If you evade and repeat the hi-E attack, he will repeat the defense til your WEP goes off. At this point you are a dead flying plane. The good spit pilots will follow you when they feel like having a chance to catch you. So, you must fight in the edge of the E advantage cutting as much room as possible with the vertical pursuer. If you have a lot of E advantage, better use it in a tight spiral climb than just extending too much in the vertical. If you decide to go pure vertical will all that E advantage, be ready to cut your climb just when the spit starts pointing anywhere but your six cone instead of continuing in the vertical trying to maximize your E advantage. Learn well the average time you need to invert in the vertical and the time the spit can keep hung in the vertical pointing at you before thinking in the reversal.

And dont engange with spits above 25k or they will eat you alive even if you come from 30k.

Against the spits, you rarely will have a clear dead six shot (unless afk or target-fixated), so be ready to master the snap shooting. My advice is not to use the D9 sight at all. Configure a key to activate a view with your head in an elevated poss so that your tracers will pass just over the sight mounting at 300-350 yards. Use this view when tracking and shooting evading spits.

The best tip I can give to any D9 pilot trying to learn how to fight the spits is just to engange every spit your encounter below 25k. No matter if u dead to these hispanos 100 times in a row, just keep enganging til you are able to judge the E state of any spit near u, at this point u will start to killing them one after another.

More tips (in spanish) about D9 at:
http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s/

[Naudet]

Duedel, i am also connecting via T-DSL and i think the is the most crapy ISP ever able to play a major role in communications.

I will look that i can get the money together to move on the Q-DSL.

[Wotan]

punt

[Sikboy]

sorry, I just wanted to bring this to the top for easier reading.

-Sikboy

[Eaglecz]

There is no word about YAK nor Typhoon .. i will have to do something about that