don't care what's in 1.06....

[lazs]

So long as there are no idiotic "perk" planes.  Trouble is, we are about out of planes that would be useful in the current arena.   Most wothwile additions left to do would be either not competitive or unbalancing.  Guess they will still go with adding the unbalancing ones tho... Not looking forward to every day being  an AH version of "jet day" tho.  If it weren't a sin.... the Amish would be smiling about "perk".

Hey, maybe the Stormovick?   Now there would be a good addition to the current game... Something to give them vehicles fits.
lazs

[PakRat]

I doubt the arena will be full of perk planes. The sky is not falling. My bet is that the perk planes and other vehicles/weapons will be priced high and you will only see them occasionally.

I do not think they will be unbalancing. I think they will add variety and challenge - both in keeping and killing them. People with them will not be as likely to exploit their advantage for fear of losing them and others will use the advantage to hunt the other perkers.

These are all "I thinks" as I have no other knowledge - as most everyone else here. My guess is that if the perk system doesn't work and can't be tweaked to work, then we'll see it go bye-bye just as we lost night to the other whiners.

I think we should wait and see before we get all squeaky about something that just might be a very cool and fun addition to the sim and allow us to fly some planes unavailable in other sims just because in free distribution "jet day" style they really do unbalance the game.

This whiney crap ought to stop though. You want to call those of use who look forward to the perk system Amish. Well, I'll just call you a frigging baby.

------------------
Rape, pillage, then burn...

[Nash]

 

This whiney crap ought to stop though. You want to call those of use who look forward to the perk system Amish.

I'm confused. Wouldn't this so called 'Amish' contigent be clamouring for early war historical? Anti-latewar-perk seems kinda pro-'Amish' to me.

<scratches head>

[fscott]

HT stated that a perk plane is to be seen as a trophy, rather than just another ride. They are going to be hard to acquire, and if you see one just HO it. Gaurantee the perk rider will not HO after spending 2 tours just to get his ride. No there won't be an arena full. My guess out of 200 people in the arena, you may see a max of 10 perks any one time.

fscott

[Hans]

I saw HiTech post that their going to have it so it takes about 3 weeks of playing to get a perk plane.

I assume they're going to use this tours stats as a base on how much that should be.

Hans.

[Torgo]

And if you haven't been conscientiously jaboing factories you can forget ever seeing one.

I'm still not a good AtA pilot; I get more perks from one strike on a a flack field with a heavy Jug than I'd get in air-to-air combat in about 8-10 hours of solid air-to-air combat.

[Mighty1]

And who's 3 weeks are they going to use?

I still think the perk plane idea is wrong. I pay my money just like everyone else(O.K. some pay less) and I may never get to fly a perk plane just because I can't spend X hours a day for X weeks to get enough points.

Just because I don't fly/drive as certain way to get the most points I may be deprived of flying/driving a new AC/GV.

[lazs]

Unless the perk planes cost several thousand perk points then I know some who will be in them allmost exclusively if they want to be.   You (or I) can't beat em in equal planes but we can give em a run.   they will be untouchable in the idiotic "perk" rides.   Convesely.... If it is hard for them to get a perk ride it will be allmost impossible for us.   Do you see the problem?  A complex way to f**k up the arena.

Amish refers to anti fun and barn raising... It knows no time frame.
lazs

[aztec]

Ok the doors been opened.
Either Hitech or Pyro,(can't remember which)stated here, that the perk system would be implemented to insure that no one plane would dominate the arena. If that is the case then why build planes that are specifically to be perked? We already have a couple of planes which many people feel dominate the arena, (not necessarily my opinion)... and it seems to me perking planes *after* finding out how they affect general gameplay makes more sense. JMHO.

 Now I have nothing against those of you who are excited about the perk system and by no means do I want to piss in your corn flakes. Personally I'd rather see my money paying for the development of planes which would make historic scenarios more viable and interesting.

 I'm not lobbying for a Historical arena or an RPS...I think there will always be a place for a Main arena and was very sorry to see the death of the MA in that other sim. For now I feel the needs of those who are interested in historical matchups could be well served by the Check 6 and Snapshot events, provided we had a strong effort in the development of a more well rounded planeset. And perhaps HTC are doing just that, I just hope it's sooner rather than later and hope that the development of quasi fantasy aircraft does not overshadow the development of the more common aircraft of WWII.

[Lephturn]

Hmmm,  interesting point lazs.

I think the Perk system could be a good thing.  The problem is, how to stop the d00dz from gaming the crap out of it?

How about making the "price" of the perks based on how much time you spend in perks.  IE:, target a maximum of 10% (just for example) of any player's time in Perk rides.  When they have their quota of time in Perk rides, start making the perk rides more expensive.

Or, how about this plan.  You purchase a perk plane... now make the perk point sytem work the same as normal... only INVERT it.  IE:, shooting down planes costs you perk points.  Make it so that you lose more points for shooting down a 202 than a C-Hog, for example.  This will make it tough to fly a Perk and have enough points to run another one as soon as you lose that perk.  It will also motivate you to shoot other difficult targets, not just prey on the lower performing aircraft.

Also, one thing I think needs to be changed.  You should get none, zero, nada, zilch fighter perks for Jabo.  The ONLY thing you should get fighter perks for is A2A IMHO.  Unless we have separate "attack" class perk planes, giving Fighter perks for jabo is just silly.

Thoughts?

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[Jimdandy]

I don't know about anyone else but it looks like I'll be lucky to get 300 points per tour. That might be real low. I don't know what everyone else is getting but I get the impression that there are some that are getting at least twice that. That seems about right because my rank is about the near the middle. I'm assuming that they are basing there system on the upper half of the point accumulation scale because I have heard the better perks will cost 1000+ points. I'm also assuming that after you buy the plane you keep it tell your shot down and then you have to buy another. At that rate I figure even the best will only fly there perk plane on rare occasions. Look at how often even really good guys get shot down. They aren't going to accumulate more than about 1,500 per tour I guessing. If a perk ride is 1000 points then he wont be in it much. That's all based on what I've heard about the cost and a guess on point accumulations. On top of all that if they see a problem start forming they can raise the price.

All of that said, I can see this being a real point of frustration for new pilots and even veteran pilots. Look at the guys that don't have a lot of time to play but are real good. They are still not going to get points very fast. I think they should try it but it may be stetting up a feeling of haves and have not's. The new people may even get discouraged. It's actually a big gamble implementing this. It could help or hurt. As the system is now the reward for being good is higher rank. This is only a paper award so it really doesn't discourage the new people or those that don't have a lot of time to play. If you start handing out bonuses on a game everyone pays for it could cause more problems than it's worth. I don't really like the idea of paying for the game and do to lack of time or even skill not getting the same chance at flying these planes as someone else. I'm paying the same amount as the guy that has a lot of time to play and the guy that is a natural. There are other ways to introduce these planes that would eliminate most those two problems. Make perk bases for these planes to fly out of. Just give them to everyone and limit the number of times you can fly them per tour. If you go out and use them all up at the beginning of the tour than your the only one to blame. Make the number of rides available proportional to the rarity and performance of the plane. Take a C-hog for example. It was rare but it isn't a SUPER plane. Give people 10 rides in a C-hog per tour. A Me 262 was rare, it's high performance give them 2 rides per tour. Easy and everyone gets the same chance at a ride. The good pilots will still be good and the bad pilots will still be bad. For that matter keep the perk points and use them to buy more rides in your favorite perk AC.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-05-2001).]

[fscott]

I say too bad. Get better ot fly more. Can't fly more? Too bad again.

A rolling plane set, or HA is boring boring boring boring. Just like in WB, everyone flies the hottest plane on the set. Get to the end of the tour and EVERYONE would be flying the Me262 or the SPit14. Bah..boring. I think that's what HT is trying to avoid. Diversity is what we want.  The good pilots that don't fly much will still have their Cdweeb and niki's, and P51d's.

Also, don't forget to realize how much you'll get for shooting down a perk.

fscott

[Ripsnort]

Perk is just another reward system that all box and online sims use. (Warbirds has 'Medals'..AH will have Perk Planes.  I'd rather have a 'trophy' that flys than one that sits on a virtual mantle)

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by fscott:
I say too bad. Get better ot fly more. Can't fly more? Too bad again.

Some of us have this thing called "A Life"™.  There's also this big fiery ball up in the sky that I like to see once in a while. My $29.95 should allow me to fly the same planes as everyone else. Basically, the perk system devalues the subscription of those who don't fly 500 hours a month. Btw, who won the pasty skin award last tour?


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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

 

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 02-05-2001).]

[Torgo]

   

Originally posted by Jimdandy:
I don't know about anyone else but it looks like I'll be lucky to get 300 points per tour. That might be real low. I don't know what everyone else is getting but I get the impression that there are some that are getting at least twice that.

I was in your boat. But, I've gotten around 250 perk points the last 3 days (I've been flying quite a bit).

Want to easily get 20-30 fighter perks a sortie? (I think I can get higher than that from the Barracks if I do it exactly right but the time I tried it I discoed when I was almost done..I think I can get to 40-45 perks)

Take a P-47 with 10 rockets, 2x1000 lb. and 1 x 500 lb., and identify enemy factories (ammo, barracks, refineries, AAA, radar factories) that get isolated behind "your" lines. There are certain ones of these that routinely get  stuck behind the lines of other countries. The locations of them can be found on Snefen's new arena map:
 http://home14.inet.tele.dk/snefens/

One thing that helps is taking a ju88 first with 10x50s and nothing else, and kill all the ack, and bail. This is especially useful on targets like the Barracks with a ton of ack..the AAA factory has much less ack.

Then you just turn up in your P47 and beat the crap out of the place. All the structures at the factories are fragile..can be strafed down, hit  with 2 rockets, or as little as a 250 lb bomb to kill them. With 500s and 1000s you can kill more than one structure at once, since many are very close to each other. I can kill any factory from 100% to 0% in two P47 sorties, and can do the Ammo and AAA in one P47 sortie if I kill the ack with a ju88 first.

Normally you'll do it unopposed, but as more people figure it out, one problem is finding a base that hasn't been killed or doesn't already have someone there raping it for perks..be sure to check the "strat" info to make sure enough of the factory is up.

You may have to do a bit of "off time" flying to do it effectively...try a sortie in the morning before heading to work..you'll probably get more perks from that than 2-3 hours of Air-to-air during the evening if you still have AC problems and are a mediocre pilot like me.

You'll get bored of it eventually. I sort of am..I just really wanted to rack up perks. But do it for a while, then go furball for a few days, and do it again..you'll "keep up with the joneses" getting more perks than somebody killing 5 CHogs with an MC202 in a sortie (I think, I've never done that :-)

HTC will never deliberately take away perks from people..what a firestorm that should be. So I recommend getting in there and doing it before they change the perk points of jaboing factories..other people have been doing it for a long time, and they're way ahead of you. And when they set the perk prices, I assume they'll look at the total perks accumulated...the people doing this are really skewing the # of perk points high.



[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 02-05-2001).]