Author Topic: 5 most influential fighters of WW2  (Read 2166 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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5 most influential fighters of WW2
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2002, 04:45:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731


Sez who, bub?

- Oldman


Considering that the Luftwaffe LOST the war, their opinion may or may not be the most accurate and reliable. The leader of the Luftwaffe was a deluded heroin addict, the fact that he said "When I saw Mustangs over Berlin I knew the jig was up" doesn't exactly make the Mustang "the plane that defeated the Luftwaffe".

The P-47 was probably more responsible for air superiority over Europe than any other Allied fighter. The fact remains that the Mustang did not even equal the P-38 in numbers deployed until April, and by then, the P-47 had enough range to go deep into Germany.

It was a change in tactics that was the main cause if the defeat of the Luftwaffe, far more than any plane. The escorting of bombers at the end of Eaker's tenure was a start of the reversal of Eaker's disaster.  The replacement of Eaker with Doolittle and the later release of the fighters from close escort, when combined with greater range for the P-47, allowing it to be a greater factor on deep escort, and the overall increase in numbers of U.S. long range fighters is what finally broke the back of the Luftwaffe.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2002, 04:52:45 PM by Captain Virgil Hilts »
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline HoHun

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« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2002, 05:00:11 PM »
Hi Oldman,

>Sez who, bub?

Do I know you from AW?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2002, 05:28:19 PM »
The Me 109, in its several variants and long production run, was an excellent fighter, and the best fighter in the air until the arrival of the Spitfire.

The Spitfire was the first Allied plane in the war to equal the capability of the Me 109. An excellent short range fighter for both defense and offense. Indeed, the only drawback to the Spitfire in later variants was range. It was however rather fragile compared to U.S. fighters.

The Mitsubishi A6M was an great aerobatic dogfighter, and nothing more. It was fragile, and prone to fire, besides being rather slow. It was not necessarily superior to the F4F or the P-40, or even the P-39. However, used the way it was early in the war, it allowed the Japanese to have success due to the bad tactics used by the U.S. Simply put, so long as the U.S. pilots were so foolish as to try to dogfight the Zero, they lost. Once they learned not to knife fight with a slow aerobatic fighter when flying a faster, heavier, but better armed and armor plane, the days of the Zero were over.

The Focke Wulfe FW 190 was a true work horse, and a solid reliable plane with multi role capabilities. A real killer against both fighters and bombers. Possibly, maybe even probably the best German prop fighter of the war.

The P-38 Lightning was a success in both the Pacific and the MTO, and due to its design and the fact that the 8th never knew what to do with it, not a big success in the area of the 8th's operations. To saw it was not a success against the Luftwaffe is a false statement. It was successful in the 9th and 15th AFs. It was NOT a total failure with the 8th. It just wasn't a dramatic success. It still maintained a ration of 1.5 Luftwaffe aircraft destroyed in combat for every 1 P-38 lost for ANY reason. The only U.S. fighter in production form start to finish of hostilities, and shot down more Japanese planes than all others.

The P-47 was a real warhorse. Powerful, fast, heavily armed and armored. Later it had plenty of range once fitted with large external tanks. Rugged enough to be shot to pieces and still fly, it saved many of its pilots, even as a total write off. Easily the toughest ground attack fighter of the ETO, it was one of the best friends the foot soldier had. In Europe, only the P-38 had a heavier and more varied weapons load out or provided a more stable gun platform.

The Vought F4U Corsair. The only fighter tougher than the P-47. The only fighter capable of as heavy a weapons payload as the P-38. It held an 11:1 kill ratio over its enemies. Produced late into the fifties, it had the longest production run of any U.S. prop fighter.

The Grumman Cats, tough and relatively agile, easy to fly, and massively produced, the chief carrier fighters in the U.S. inventory. Fast, tough, and reliable, they were the backbone of the naval air wing.

The P-51 Mustang. A fast, cheap, and easy to produce, nearly disposable fighter. Too late in either Europe or the Pacific to be a war winner, but a capable fighter none the less. It was a relatively simple plane to fly, especially compared to the P-38, although it had no major advantage over a well flown P-38 or P-47 save speed. Had range and speed, and late in the war, mass numbers. It was easy to produce, and easy to maintain. It was 2/3 the price of a P-47 of F4U, and 1/2 the price of a Lightning. It was also incapable of carrying heavy loads of weapons, and it was a very fragile plane when used for ground attack. The cooling system was exceptionally vulnerable, and the engine extremely dependant on it.

The Me 262, the first and only truly successful jet fighter of W.W.II, and the most technologically advanced of the war. Had it not been for the short sightedness of the German leaders, it could have entered the war a year earlier. Had the 8th AF faced the Me262 with Eakers leadership, the disaster that was late 1943 would have been multiplied exponentially.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Sachs

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« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2002, 05:37:29 PM »
I would say the FI-156 Storch.  This plane brought us civilians into a realm of private piloted planes that have rocketed into success.  I stand on my decision Fi-156!!!!!!!

Offline fdiron

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« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2002, 07:12:43 PM »
Simply having enough range to fly to Berlin from England doesnt make a plane a good escort fighter.  Combat uses alot of fuel, and planes such as the P47 and P38 often had to turn back before they escorted the bombers all the way to the target because of combat fuel usage.

Offline Seeker

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« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2002, 07:34:05 PM »
significance...an influence that lasts longer than the intended production run.

With that in mind the Me109, which continued service and production long after the war was obviously a superior plane to the Fw190.

To my knowledge, the Fw stopped with the war; while Spain for one (are there others?) continued with the 109 for some years.

Offline Hristo

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« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2002, 09:45:19 PM »
Fw 190 was used after the war in Turkey.

It was also manufactured in France in post war years.

Offline pbirmingham

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« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2002, 10:24:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by niklas

e) Fiesler Storch. First STOL-aircraft :)

niklas


Well, if not for the Storch, Mussolini would have remained in prison a while longer.  What that actually meant for the war, I don't know.

Offline AmRaaM

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« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2002, 11:09:23 PM »
some misc p38 info:

Designed by Kelly Johnson....who also designed the SR71 Blackbird.

Britain ordered 667 of which on 664 were NOT delivered due to teething problems.

The name 'Lightning' came from the British.

The name 'Forked Tailed Devil' came from the Germans in North Africa.

A British pilot in a spitfire accidently shot down the c47 that was delivering the critical parts needed to complete the compressive mods for the p38s in the ETO thus giving the p51 time to catch up in production and surpass the p38.

P38s cost apprx $125,000 1940s $s.

P38 first flew in 1939 @ 420mph a record for the time (thus the British orders of the plane that had up to then only flew total of 5 hours).

CIVILIAN Charles Lindberg shot down a Japanese fighter on July 28, 1944 (himself narrowly escaped being shot down by a zero) he flew several more combat missions before word leaked out and the CO of the squadron was reprimanded and grounded for 60 days.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2002, 11:16:05 PM by AmRaaM »

Offline fdiron

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« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2002, 02:55:35 AM »
Kill stats for the P51

4950 Air Kills, 4131 Ground Kill, 230 V-1 Kills

Thats 9,081 enemy aircraft destroyed

Most of these kills were in the ETO.  Kind of hard to destroy 9000+ aircraft if the Luftwaffe were non-existant.

Kill stats for the F6F

4,947 enemy aircraft destroyed in air to air combat.

"The Hellcat was eventually credited with destroying more than 6,000 Japanese aircraft. 4,947 of these by F6Fs of the USN carrier squadrons (209 of the others by land-based Marine Corps F6Fs, and the remainder by Hellcats of other Allied countries). The F6F's most spectacular exploit was the destruction of more than 160 enemy aircraft in one day on 19 June 1944 in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, in the aerial massacre known grimly as "The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot."

Kill stats for the P47

" The P-47 is credited with the destruction of 4.6 enemy aircraft f or the loss of each one of its own number, with some 546,000 combat sorties during which 1,934,000 operational flight hours were accumu- lated, and with the destruction in Europe (excluding the italian front) of 3,752 enemy aircraft in the air and 3,315 on the ground."

Source-http://www.kotfsc.com/aircraft/fighters.htm
« Last Edit: February 26, 2002, 03:06:42 AM by fdiron »

Offline illo

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« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2002, 04:48:42 AM »
Yup, Fieseler Fi-156 Storch is one of my favorite airplanes. It could fly in full load at down to 51kmh. Could land almost vertically in small breeze.  It could takeoff from 20 meter strip, so you could basicly land it on the next road/backyard. Best spotter and liaison aircraft of war with no doubt.

I don't understand how people regard 109 better plane than 190. 190 has awesome controls even at high speed which makes it very easy plane for attacks at speed where 109 is only controllable by trim. 109 is good lonewolf plane in flightsims because of it's awesome climb. But if you have flown 190 teamed up you know it will beat the toejam out of everything. 190 is IMO way better killer than 109. In ideal scenario i would fly in schwarm of 190s at 4km with schwarm of 109s providing top cover at 6km(we did that with our squad in WB and it was VERY VERY effective.) So i could say that 190 and 109 have just different roles.  190s rack the kills while 109s prevent hi cons to enter area.
In AH you could have even doras at med alt with high ta152s....damn that would be something..
« Last Edit: February 26, 2002, 04:54:37 AM by illo »

Offline Naudet

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« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2002, 04:57:46 AM »
I think there are two view at the "most influential fighters of WW2".

The contruction point and the quantitiy point.

Most influential construtions:

1) BF109, cause after its develepment the bi-plane era was ended

2) FW190, for its multipurpose-Rüstsätze, the All-Electrics-philosophy, with the Kommandogerät the ease-to-use aspect and finally with its easy maintance the reliability aspect

3) ME 262 for the introduction of the jet fighter

4) GO 229 for the introduction of the flying-wing-concept

5)the construtions of Focke-Achilis, that introduced the helicopter design


Most influential quantity:

1) P51, cause the appearance of the P51 in strong numbers sealed the fate of the Luftwaffe

2) P47, see P51

3) F6F, cause it turned the tides for the US in the Pazific Theater

4) Yak 3+9, cause it simpyl overwhelmed the LW in the east, and that combined with an exellent performance

5) B17, cause the appearance of the B17 finally lead to the attrition war the LW could not win



You may ask why i have 5/5 construtions GE and 5/5 quantity allied planes.

Its simple.
Every of this contructions introduced points that are vital for any of todays fighter plane construtions.
All of those planes brought in a major steps in the development of aircraft.
They set new standards.
OK all the allied planes were good cioonstrutions to, but not as innovative.

On the other hand the quantity. Here the most important point is weather it helped to win the war or not.
And no german fighter falls in here, cause they didnt win the war.
When the 109ers productions increased it was already obsolete.
And for all the other german fighters, you can basicly say "if they were produced in greater numbers, they would have had an influence on the course of the war", but as you see there is this little IF.

Offline illo

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« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2002, 05:21:32 AM »
I think germans had more shortage of pilots and fuel in 1944/45 than of planes.

Offline Naudet

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« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2002, 05:25:31 AM »
Illo, i always compare it to allied production numbers.

i.e. what are 700 ME262 build against ten-thousands of P47, P51, Yaks and Spits?

Ok once in the air the ME262 might be close to invincible, but the pure number of the hunters makes the life of the fox not safer. :)

Offline eddiek

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« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2002, 05:42:44 AM »
Interesting list Naudet..........but the Go-229 did not introduce the flying wing concept.  Jack Northrop had been working on the flying wing concept for a few years and had a patent on a flying wing, before the Go-229.
In all honesty, the idea was being worked on by American, Russian, and German aviation engineers practically simultaneously, so it would be near impossible to credit any one company or individual with the flying wing concept.
Just my two cents...........:)