Author Topic: N1K2J - The miracle chopper (Read 1958 times)

MANDOBLE · « **on:** March 20, 2002, 03:53:19 AM »

I've noticed this effect in planes like spits, n1k2 and Typhs, but always into a moving plane. Yesterday I was in the tower, watching the aproach of a very fast enemy F6F. Then a friendly N1K2 jumped to the runaway and took off just after a straffing pass of the F6F that went vertical. The N1k2 took off and went vertical clibmbing towards the zooming hellcat. At some point, clearly visible from the tower, the N1K2 stopped climbing, but kept nose up, freezed in the sky, pointing at the F6F and then started to fire like mad, still stopped in the air pointing vertically up. The F6F dodged the shoots and the N1K2 simply leveled and performed a 180 degree turn to repeat the vertical spraying zoom, this time the F6F was destroyed. Looking this scene from the tower, the N1K2 was just like a chopper instead a plane, hung by its prop for an ethernity while spraying like a possesed. Didn't have its enormous engine any effect when stopped in vertical?

Montezuma · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2002, 04:07:47 AM »

That well designed test is proof that the N1K2 model is wrong. Good work!

Conclusive evidence like that shows why your input is valued by everyone.

JoeCrip · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2002, 04:33:01 AM »

I've seen it happen too. Niki climbing like an me163....

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2002, 04:52:15 AM »

No JoeCrip, this is not a question of climb rate. The problem is not just the climbing speed, but the time this bird keeps hung, stopped in the air pointing up, it is like a hovering helicopter.

JoeCrip · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2002, 05:30:23 AM »

Well, you know what I mean

After take off the niki goes verticle..and climbs as high as it can go...once it is at 20 MPH it just stays in air, and it wont go down for a few seconds, kinda like (as you said) a helicopter. IMO this should be the #1 thing on the priority list to fix

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2002, 05:51:01 AM »

Be aware Joe, Zuma may be online and with factual data proving this is nothing to be fixed

Sikboy · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2002, 07:24:35 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Be aware Joe, Zuma may be online and with factual data proving this is nothing to be fixed

Once again mandy has trouble with the "Burden of Proof" concept.

Anyhow, does anyone have film of this? It sounds like something to watch for, since I can't stand anything on its nose in here but the 38. Especially the part about maintaining altitude after what appeared to be a stall. Smells like lag to me, but with the new film editor, you could even get into the cockpit of the offending nik and see what he sees. Until then its just anecdotal evidence. Next to worthless. But then after reading Montys post, you already know that.

-Sikboy

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2002, 07:34:54 AM »

I'm describing just what I saw from the tower, and no lag/warps at all were present. You dont need any film, you may go offline, pickup a n1k2j and put it in the vertical checking the airspeed and just looking it from a external view to get your own conclussions spending only 5 mins in the test.

Sikboy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2002, 07:57:14 AM »

So if Im unable to recreate the results from your anecdote in a "laboratory environment", does that then disprove your theory, or just prove that I can't fly the niki to save my ass?

-Sikboy

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2002, 08:07:07 AM »

I have not a theory, what I have is a visual testimony (very different concepts).
So, your test is not going to disprove what I've seen, but, at least, you will prove that it could have been an anecdotal ocurrence and not the norm.

Sikboy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2002, 08:25:52 AM »

Your theory, implied by the last sentence of your testimony, is that the Engine torque should have had some effect on the Niki in a verticle climb, and that this effect is/was not present. By stating that " I've noticed this effect in planes like spits, n1k2 and Typhs" you imply that this "effect" is a repeating occurence, and spread out over several models. Or is this not what you meant to say? Or am I just being too literal with your post? Just wondering what I'm missing here.

-Sikboy

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2002, 08:30:50 AM »

Blah, blah blah ...
Have you done the test or not????

Sikboy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2002, 08:35:59 AM »

Yes Yes, just ignore what you don't like. I can't do the test for another 8 hours or so, as I'm at work right now. I'm just trying to figure out what the test is designed to prove. I'll be elated if I can perform this manuever, but I have my doubts. Of course, If I do succeed, at least I'll have film of it, which will bring the whole thread out of the realm of conjecture and into the realm of evidence

-Sikboy

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2002, 09:08:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sikboy
I'm just trying to figure out what the test is designed to prove.

ROFLOL, you are the one with doubts about my experience, the test is mainly for you, to verify whether n1k2 is able to do that or not.

Fishu · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2002, 09:13:30 AM »

I haven't flown niki much, but long long time ago when I did, I took off from airfield with enemy niki inbound.
Got up and climbed a little, to end up below this enemy niki.
After couple of failed passes, he came in, I evaded, he went to loop, I waited a little, then pulled up and hung there like chopper, in the middle of his loop.
When he began going down from the loop, I flipped the nose over at correct time and got behind him.

...and within few seconds shot him down.