Yo! What Happened To HT's Vision?

[jedi]

There are only so many guys who REALLY want a "high realism" sim.  Perhaps enough to keep a business afloat, but probably not enough to make it flourish, and maybe not even enough to allow it to keep up with the pace of competition.

So once you "gather up" all the high-realism guys, what do you do for customers?  You have to bring in the "survey sim, just wanna have fun" guys.  They aren't gonna play a sim where they can't start "having fun" and "winning" at least some of the time pretty quickly.  To get em, you're gonna have to eliminate most of the learning curve, not just shallow it a bit.  The question is what you do with em when you get em.

Almost anyone can be taught to fly a plane.  The only variable is time.  However, almost NO one can be taught to be an "ace."  Therein lies the rub.  Everyone WANTS to be an ace.  The kind of player who's unwilling to put in the time to learn the full flight model is also the kind of player who's going to want to take "shortcuts to respectability" in the sim.  He's going to want to get kills, and he's not going to wait months to get the first one.

So, fine, you create an environment where he CAN get kills, and he's happy.  The HUGE question is whether you let that environment be the SAME environment with that now-small, not-big-enough-to-sustain-growth, group of hard core guys who DID want to have "full difficulty," who DID want to STRIVE to earn "respectability," and most importantly, MANY of whom haven't really gotten there yet.

Doesn't take a genius to say "Aaah, let's just let em turn off whatever parts they don't like.  If all the realism dweebs quit, that's only 25% anyway, and they won't all quit, we know that."

Or you COULD build a system where the new guys START OUT with the physics relaxed so they can get up and running, compete primarily with each other, and GRADUALLY are "weaned" off of the relaxed physics so that ALL the experienced players are playing by the same rules, and NO one in the main arena has any physics "suspended" to draw unfair advantage from.

Of course, I am assumed to be less intelligent than anyone who does this for a living, so I won't bother you with any of my ideas.  RL flight training philosophy has no applicability here, after all.



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[wells]

I think you need to re-read what their goal is

 

It's just to create
                    one game

[Yeager]

almost NO one can be taught to be an "ace." Therein lies the rub.
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This is just one rub.  There are so many other rubs that need to be taken into account that I am simply very happy to not have to deal with all these rubs from the developers perspective.

I just pay my subscription and do my best to get the most out of my time online.  I *still* enjoy doing this after four years of daily combat simming.  Which brings up another rub!......on second thought, forget about it for now.

Yeager

[Pongo]

We should leave this one to the guys that get to look at the subscription vs trial period numbers.
Having been a trainer and watched a friend go from 0 experiance to the top 40 I can appreciate that there might be a few tweeks that could be put in place that would make the transition easier yet not wreck the game.
I think that if 10 current pilots just cannot palate the change that is made, or even the prospect of change, but 15% more players stay on to subscribe after their trial period. Then that is worth considering.

[Yeager]

People who's only experience with aircraft is a plastic joystick and a 17" monitor don't know diddely squat about what this is all about.
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I agree in principle but I must say that I have learned a tremendous amount of things here in AH and earlier, in WBs about things
associated with the principles of powered flight and more specifically, ACM, that I could only have learned from a textbook and actual flight training.

Yeager

[Pyro]

As to the vision to produce a successful online flight-sim, I've already pointed to another one he created in which an easy mode has existed for the past 5 years and it's coexisted in that main for the past 3 years.  But don't pay attention to that, let's just jump to conclusions about how everything works and about our greedy and nefarious intentions.

There is one thing that many people want in a flight-sim above everything else - they want to complain.  Make up your own mind, don't let others do it for you because there's plenty of people who seize those opportunities.

You say you take exception to me stating what I think is obvious to anybody whose been around online flight-sims for a long time.  But let me put the shoe on the other foot.  I take exception to the accusatory tone of your post.  This particular issue is not a new philosophy, it's the same one that was successfully applied before and the same one we started with here.

Nobody likes to think of gaming as a business, but it most certainly is, and we've treated it that way for the past 5 years.  We're fortunate that the business we're in is something we're passionate about, but it's a business nonetheless.  If you had any idea what it's taken to get to this point, you would feel very awkward at having written what you wrote.

Having worked on a successful game under an unsuccessful company, I can only say that that sucks.  HT and I used to spend a lot of our time fighting off stupid business decisions that would have an adverse affect on the game and the business.  HT finally left over one which in turn caused me to leave.  We don't have to do that anymore.  We've picked our market niche, it's the one we are most comforatable in, and we're going to do everything we can to succeed in it.  That is no different than what we did in WB, and it's no different than when we first announced AH.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

[Beegerite]

Thanks for the reply.  My feelings remain unchanged and I will only add that it's been my experience in business that your friends will tell you what they perceive as the truth.  Others will tell you what you want to hear.  I saw something which if carried through could totally sour me against what I presently consider an excellent product and I told you so as have so many others.  Now, the ball is in your court.  Do what you think is best.
Thanks
Beeg

 

Originally posted by Pyro:
As to the vision to produce a successful online flight-sim, I've already pointed to another one he created in which an easy mode has existed for the past 5 years and it's coexisted in that main for the past 3 years.  But don't pay attention to that, let's just jump to conclusions about how everything works and about our greedy and nefarious intentions.

There is one thing that many people want in a flight-sim above everything else - they want to complain.  Make up your own mind, don't let others do it for you because there's plenty of people who seize those opportunities.

You say you take exception to me stating what I think is obvious to anybody whose been around online flight-sims for a long time.  But let me put the shoe on the other foot.  I take exception to the accusatory tone of your post.  This particular issue is not a new philosophy, it's the same one that was successfully applied before and the same one we started with here.

Nobody likes to think of gaming as a business, but it most certainly is, and we've treated it that way for the past 5 years.  We're fortunate that the business we're in is something we're passionate about, but it's a business nonetheless.  If you had any idea what it's taken to get to this point, you would feel very awkward at having written what you wrote.

Having worked on a successful game under an unsuccessful company, I can only say that that sucks.  HT and I used to spend a lot of our time fighting off stupid business decisions that would have an adverse affect on the game and the business.  HT finally left over one which in turn caused me to leave.  We don't have to do that anymore.  We've picked our market niche, it's the one we are most comforatable in, and we're going to do everything we can to succeed in it.  That is no different than what we did in WB, and it's no different than when we first announced AH.

[hblair]

 

My feelings remain unchanged and I will only add that it's been my experience in business that your friends will tell you what they perceive as the truth. Others will tell you what you want to hear.

What kind of business are you in?

[Skorpyon]

Hmmmm.. sounds like yet ANOTHER arena that needs to be created.  Maybe I'm beating this "create a special arena for each special need/feature" a little too hard lately... dunno.    Or maybe just an arena for all the opposing views to be settled in combat, sort of a "trial by fire".  When the smoke clears, who ever is left standing is right.  Hmmmm.. seems a bit barbaric, but would provide hour upon hour of cheap entertainment!  (On a personal note, when the auto-take off was first introduced, I hadn't read the readme.txt about it.  Needless to say, I was quite pissed off when some uninvited ghost took over my plane!  And after I had felt so proud about actually being able to get a Corsair off the ground, all on my own!  Fortunately I figured out how to turn it off... whew!")  Features to help newbies are obviously important, but we should also attempt to teach them, not just guide them along.  So let's see.. so far I have suggested 1)Uber Arena  2)Newbie Arena 3)the oft-begged for Historical Arena 4)Conflict Resolution Through Combat Arena 5)Any other suggestions?  (PLEASE do not answer this post.. it is meant to bring humor, not provoke deep thought.)  


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Skorpyon
I/JG2 ~Richthofen~
"Feel the Sting......"

[Jochen]

 

Give HTC some time to produce this stuff. And remember that more subscribers means HTC has the time and resources to create more "hard core" features, scenarios, and arenas.

Yeah, we need as many players as we can get. Maybe we must do compromises about realism but on the other hand it might reward us with more options, planes and events because then HTC has more resources to do stuff. With the money they can get from new easy mode players they could hire new gfx artists and then produce vehicles and planes in faster pace.

Easy mode worked on WB nicely for many years. Maybe it was bit too easy or didn't limit plane performance as I would liked to see but it worked.

Easy mode was turned off in WB MA while a go and numbers dropped. Many were suprised because of high number of easy mode pilots. Maybe "hard core" realism freaks are even smaller group than they have thinked.

Easy mode is ok for me. Newbies need help so they can fly and score occasional kill. But even I dislike idea that easy mode allows you to fly planes to their 100% performance without trimming and torque.

Ideas, stupid maybe but ideas nevertheless:

When pilot gets a kill, indicate wether he is using easy mode in kill message

Since we are going to have plane based score modifiers, why not introduce easy mode modifier?

Let's stop whining for a second and let's just see how the things go. Easy mode is still far away and maybe it's better to wait until we have something concrete before we start judging it?.

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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes

[bloom25]

While it doesn't hurt to state your opinions on a subject, don't you all think that we have gone a little off the deep end here?  We are arguing over something that is far far away from being implemented.  Pyro has stated that they don't even know what they are going to do about EZ mode yet.  Given HTC's prior record for improvements, I think the end result will only make it better.  Please guys, lets just let HTC do their job and I'm sure the end result will be a good one.  



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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[CavemanJ]

 

Originally posted by hitech:
RAM why havn't you left already do to the mixture of auto take off in the same arena, or for that mater the auto fuel tank selection? You can make all the same arguments about it as you are about something you have no idea what it will be like.


HiTech

HT my feelings run in the same general direction as RAM's do.  I personally think it'll be a sad day in AH history if full EZMode FMs are mixed into the main.  I never flew WB online because it was just too much $$, so I can't comment on how it was done there.  I did switch back and forth between RR and FR in AW a few years ago, and I can say I'm glad they never mixed those arenas.

The automatic fuel management system and the auto-takeoff feature won't let someone who has blown all his E in a stupid move recover almost instantaneously and zoom up to kill whomever he is fighting.

All that being said I'll reserve final judgement until it's actually in the sim and I can see how it works.

[indian]

for those of you who never flew Easymode in WB, Ill try to give you an idea of whta it was like. The first thing you will notice is that you cant use full deflection of the flight controls, second thing you will notice is that you cant black out, the biggest thing you will notice is some how evryone can tell you are in easymode and they gun for you. What I saw was such a huge difference in the flight models that you were at a disticnt disadvantge to even be in the same arena as those not in easymode. So all of you lighten up it wont be Like AWIII it will take away and incourage the player to go to full flight model. If you doubt what I say go sign up for one month and try the air combat arena. Easymo can testify to that.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage

[Daff]

The trick lies in creating an easymode, that *doesnt* give the user any advantages.
ie, keep adverse yaw, keep stalls and make them very deep indeed (but without the spins) and perhaps even reduce engine output by 5-10%.
It should be used to help people in the air, introduce the basic principles of flight and air-to-air combat and NOT as a crutch because they're lazy.
 As a rank newbie coming into an online flightsim, he's not going to be able to tell the performance difference anyway. (And if he does, then he really should move off easymode ASAP).

Daff

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CO, 56th Fighter Group

[CptTrips]

While I would be EXTREMELY uneasy about mixing eazy FM with regular in the same arena, I could prolly live with something that let them have easy mmode up to the first 10 kills on their account.  After 10 kills its time for the training wheels to come off.  That way its a very small percentage of players using EM at any one time in the arena.  Not some pathetic banana who sticks to EM for 2 or 3 years.

We already have a type of easy mode.  Its called , bombers, goons, tanks, M16s...(Maybe AAA and APC soon) If they want to grow up and be a big bad fighter pilot, they should have to work for it.

Nothing given has value.  Anything worth having, is worth earning.


Regards,
Wab