Get rid of Killshooter!!! It doesn't make sense.

[CyranoAH]

Where's Yeager?

Daniel

[SKurj]

killshooter is fine as far as guns are concerned...

But I think when a buff drops an egg from 20k and some idjit flies thru the target at 10ft killing the buff thats a load o crap!  a different implementation for bombs would be nice..


SKurj

[Sandman]

All of these predictions about what might or might not occur and how killshooter might or might not change the behavior of people flying in the MA is a load of crap.

Rather than speculate. Turn it off for a tour. See what happens.

[popeye]

Sandman,

Which do you think will be more prevalent:  your buff death scenario, or getting blasted by the conga line?

[Yeager]

Ok...ok  hehe


RELAX........its just a game.

[beet1e]

A lot of you seem to think that I'm advocating a scenario in which it's possible to shoot friendlies instead of being damaged yourself. I was not!  All I suggested was that it's silly for the damage to be ascribed to your own plane. Let a S&P burke waste his ammo if he wants to.

Admittedly, if five were chasing one, it would be a spray & pray fray. But the planes I fly are typically B&Z fighters that don't like turning very much, preferring to use vertical manoeuvres. So if chasing down a con at 400mph, it's no use suggesting that the friendly should turn so as to create the opportunity for a deflection shot whilst avoiding shooting the friendly. Turning in planes like the F4U and P51 is not much of a combat option, especially at 400mph. If you know different, please advise!

[Sandman]

Originally posted by popeye
Sandman,

Which do you think will be more prevalent:  your buff death scenario, or getting blasted by the conga line?

Not enough info to form an opinion. Right now, all the evidence is anecdotal at best and/or pure speculation at worst.

[WBHoncho]

Originally posted by beet1e
... The problem is that any rounds which fly past the bogie are at a trajectory which lands them on the friendly, and destroys *ME*! ...

Not had one killshooter death in Warbirds or AcesHigh either.  I have been damaged in events when it is off though.

Killshooter works fine.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by beet1e
I continue to despair at this killshooter crap. One major problem is the effect it has when clearing someone’s 6. I like to approach a bogie in his low 6 to avoid being spotted, then pull up slightly to take the shot. The problem is that any rounds which fly past the bogie are at a trajectory which lands them on the friendly, and destroys *ME*!  If flying fighters in the MA, I’ll either be found flying the F4U-1D, or the P51D. Their .50 cals fly well – too well, it turns out. It is possible to land hits at 1000 yards or more, whereas in some sims, any shots fired from outside of 300 yards are dust. Just imagine that I am 400 yards behind a con, who is 400 yards behind my friend. I pull up slightly to aim the pipper and fire. It’s impossible to land all the rounds on the con, and those that miss go straight to the friendly.

Why not just null out friendly fire, in the same way that friendlies cannot collide with you? I cannot understand this concept of being damaged by one’s own fire. It makes no sense at all.

So, if this were RL, you would clear your buddy's six in this manner? What a hoot that would be if you accidentally shot him down instead of the bandit. If your hitting a friendly in a situation as you described, it is 100% your fault.

When ever you fire a weapon, you have to know what is downrange, including what is downrange all around your intended target, in case you miss, which by your post, seems to be the case.

I don't like kill shooter for the other reasons of friendlies flying through my plane while I have the trigger pulled, but that is a much rarer occurance that is a furballing problem for the most part.

If any change could be made to KS I would just ask for significantly reduced lethality, especially considering that all KS damaged is applied to the center fuesalage.

[Fatty]

The damage recieved is the same as inflicted.  We have MA duels all the time, first to die wins (in other words lots of experience with killshooter damage).  Just like when shooting a con, I can spray 303s or 7.7 with minimal if any damage, but I hit with cannons and parts go away.

[beet1e]

Midnight - au contraire, mon ami.

And this is where WB and IL2 guys will agree with me. Many in WB refer to AH projectile trajectories as "laser gunnery", and I can see where they're coming from. In AH, I once got a kill of a 109 from my F6F at a range of 1000 yards at an upward angle of about 30°. I'm no expert myself, but I think the other guys argue that beyond about 500 yards, the projectiles' energy would be pretty much spent, just as a shotgun is lethal at 10 feet but probably harmless at 500 yards. I can't give exact figures, and I have never owned a gun of any kind. What you're saying is that the lethality of the projectile continues until it hits the ground. In which case you could get a killshooter death at 15,000 feet because your ammo burst hit a friendly 25 miles away. How would you like that?

[Karnak]

I remember trying to clear a Tiffie's 6.  I was in my Mossie and there was a P-38 diving on this Tiffie, so I dive after the P-38.  At 300 yards I calculate the lead (I thought)  and fire off a burst.  I watch the burst fly over the P-38 and drill the Tiffie that is 800 yards ahead of me.  I seriously doubt that I could have made that shot if I'd tried.  Anyways, you ever seen a Mossie get hit by 4 20mm Hispano Mk IIs?  Pop goes the Mossie.


The reason that I think killshooter should remain is that it creates a more realistic environment.  Not realistic in who takes the damage (I am well aware that those who advocate removing killshooter just want no damage to friendlies) but rather realistic in the behavior that it encourages.  In reality you didn't have 5 F6Fs all blazing away through eachother, all trying to get that A6M.  In reality you tried not to shoot friendlies because you could kill your friends.  In a game the only way to make one think about the potential for harm is to apply the damage to the shooter.

It creates a more realistic combat environment when the players check their fire to avoid shooting friendlies.  Anything else massively changes the dynamics of air-to-air combat.

BTW, I do agree that bombers should not suffer killshooter deaths from their bombs.

[NUTTZ]

I usually hold the trigger down until the gun is empty, the whole time screaming at the top of my lungs "TAKE THAT YOU RAT BASTARD!!!!! ( not to be confused with the Fat Drunk Bastards, who i'm sure some are rats.)


NUTTZ

Originally posted by Dawvgrid
I been killshot 1 maybe 2 times in my whole AH life,I think it`s
a question about SA,,,and short controlled burst,,not long uncon-
trolled burst`s;).

[Fatty]

What you're saying is that the lethality of the projectile continues until it hits the ground. In which case you could get a killshooter death at 15,000 feet because your ammo burst hit a friendly 25 miles away. How would you like that?

You will find that as your examples approach reality, so does credit approach your point.

What he said is be aware of what your guns can do, and take that into account.

[Fatty]

especially considering that all KS damaged is applied to the center fuesalage.

This isn't true either Midnight.