Author Topic: AMD CPU Reccommendations?  (Read 1540 times)

Offline -ammo-

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2002, 11:09:13 AM »
maddog, your post is reassuring to me. Heat is a concern of mine. When I first built my machine I saw temps of 45C when running AH (I used artic silver as the medium), but now i frequently get to 56C, and when the machine is idle I drop to 47-48C. I am a little concerned, but if you are topping out at 60CV without probs...I feel better.
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Offline Eagler

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2002, 11:57:05 AM »
upgraded from 1.33 Tbird, geforce2 ultra & 512 ram on a IWILL KK266 to a XP2000, geforce 4 ti 4400 & 512 PC2100ram on a ASUS  A7V266-E

still working the bugs out, will post benchmarks once it's stable..
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Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline bloom25

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2002, 01:32:42 PM »
I believe that like Win9x and Win2k, processor instruction support is determined and the OS configured accordingly when the OS is installed.  I don't believe Windows XP would have changed that.  I do know that SSE instruction support changes a registry flag, but I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that.  Unfortunately I just don't know all the details here.

There won't be any problems putting the CPU in, you just won't be getting absolute top performance.  (Though the difference between a Duron 800 and XP 2000+ w/o SSE support enabled will seem huge to you anyway.)  The problem with Windows XP is that it could ask you to reactivate once you install the new CPU, and could also do the same when you add the video card.  I personally refuse to use Windows XP or any software product with this "feature." (Office XP)

Offline whels

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2002, 01:41:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-
maddog, your post is reassuring to me. Heat is a concern of mine. When I first built my machine I saw temps of 45C when running AH (I used artic silver as the medium), but now i frequently get to 56C, and when the machine is idle I drop to 47-48C. I am a little concerned, but if you are topping out at 60CV without probs...I feel better.


Ammo,

ive seen the same temp rise. i 1st built this current system, i was getting 39C case and 42 C cpu temp under load.
now after 4 months or so break in, im 38C case and 49 to 50C under load cpu temp. cpu temp has gained about 10C over that time and dont have a reason why.

whels

Offline LePaul

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2002, 02:16:22 PM »
Bloom,

I'm always wow'd by your posts....very detailed, lots of listed references

Do you build custom PCs?

Offline -ammo-

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2002, 04:40:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
Bloom,

I'm always wow'd by your posts....very detailed, lots of listed references

Do you build custom PCs?


He's a "byte head":)
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline beet1e

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2002, 05:50:22 PM »
Skurj – you seem to be in good hands here :)

I have run AMD processors on Asus motherboards for three years now. If upgrading to another AMD processor, I can fully recommend Asus motherboards. Asus is dedicated to supporting AMD processors. They have just released a BIOS update to support the Athlon XP processor and their website is useful and informative.

The only thing against AMD processors is the temperature at which they run. They run VERY hot, and a heat sink/cooling fan is not an option – it is a necessity. Don’t just get any old fan; get the proper heat sink fan, and make sure the fan turns at sufficient speed to cool the processor. In addition to that, I also got myself a PCI slot exhaust fan. Asus provide a utility called Probe. It is a motherboard and CPU monitor. Keep this running at all times!  It will alert you if things start hotting up, or if a fan speed drops below threshold. Just follow these tips, and your new processor should be fine!  My Athlon is a 1.2GHz model, and it is fine for AH :D  Don’t pay for something you don’t need.

Offline SKurj

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2002, 05:56:48 PM »
Heyas

I have quite abit of experience building systems, I just don't always keep up to date on the latest developments. In my case thats not usually a bad thing... I typically stay 1 generation behind.  This time i taking a leap to relative, as close to 1st generation as i've come.

Heat I am used to having overclocked every cpu I've owned.  I run 47deg under load on the chip mid to hi 20's in case on my Duron at 975.

I am considering a new PS though.  I am using an Antec 300W that came with the case.  Think its maybe abit weak.


SKurj

Offline maddog1

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2002, 08:47:51 PM »
I was concerned at first with temp but was told it was ok... AMD says die temp is 90 but it will shut down at 70 I think.... I was used to seeing my Intel 933 run at 38 which fostered my intial concern......

Offline bloom25

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2002, 01:04:52 AM »
(Oh no, I feel another wall of text coming on... :D )

Athlons do generate a lot of heat, but to be fair, the Willamette core P4s puts out even more than an Athlon.  Intel has the market power to force heatsink and power supply manufacturers to add special connectors and retaining clips to support them.  AMD couldn't have gotten away with that.

The Athlon XP (Palomino core) incorporated some design changes to the shape of the core and some other circuitry changes that result in lower heat output and total power consumption than the Athlon Tbirds did.   At the same clockspeed, a Palomino core Athlon XP puts out 20% less heat than a Tbird would.  As clockspeeds have rose the Athlon XP 2100+ now puts out nearly as much heat as the Athlon Thunderbird 1400 does.

The XP 2100+ will probably be the last Palomino core Athlon, newer Athlons will be using a new core, codename Thoroughbred.  The only difference as compared to Palomino, is the switch to a .13 vs .18 micron process.  In case you were wondering, this .13, .18, .25, .35 micron process statement refers to the minimum possible transistor length.  (A MOS transistor looks basically like a rectangle, they have both length and width.  As manufacturing technology improves it has been possible to make the individual transistors smaller and smaller.)  

Shrinking the transistors has many benefits:
1.  Lower power consumption
2.  Smaller die size (you get more chips off the same size wafer, thus lower costs)
3.  Lower voltage requirements.  (That's why a bios flash or a new motherboard may be required.)
4.  Higher speed (there's more at work here, but suffice it to say that shrinking the transistors generally allows higher speeds to be reached.)
5.  You can fit more transistors on a given size die.

Throughbred was released a couple days ago as the Mobile Athlon XPs 1600 - 1800+ for notebooks.  Desktop users should see them very soon as well.  This Athlon XP core will probably launch at 2000 - 2200+ (1800 Mhz) speeds and scale up pretty fast to around 2 Ghz true clockspeed (XP 2500+).  The early versions will probably overclock pretty well, definately better than a Palomino core XP 2100+.  If they are out when you do buy your CPU and your board can support them, this would be a good way to go.

If you wait a little longer, if AMD sticks to its roadmap, the Barton core Athlon XP will be released.  (This is supposed to happen in Q3 this year.)  At the very end of the year, AMD is supposed to launch their brand new CPU design based around codename ClawHammer and SledgeHammer.  ClawHammer core CPUs are probably going to have a variation of the Athlon name, and the Sledgehammer core CPUs were just officially named the AMD Opteron processor.  The Opteron will definately not be within the budget for most of us when released.  It can run regular PC applications, but is much much more powerful than any other x86 processor design I know of.  Some of the early benchmarks I've seen would indicate a 25 - 35% performance improvement over the current Athlon XP when running at the same clockspeed.  The Clawhammer CPUs (which will probably be called something like Athlon 2)  are supposed to launch at around a 2 Ghz clockspeed and the ClawHammer version will probably rate as an XP 3400+ at that clockspeed.  The Opteron will be used in multiprocessor systems ( 4 CPUs to be exact ), so don't expect to be able to afford that one. ;)

There, now you all know what to expect for the rest of the year from AMD. :D

_____________________________ _____________________    

LePaul, I have built computers for people.  I mainly do it only for friends and family, when I have time.  Recently I've been way too busy to even consider doing it though.  I'm VERY VERY picky on what components I use in the systems I build, so it's not something I'd ever make any money doing.  I always tinker and tweak the systems I built until they are as close to perfect as I can get them.

Offline krat

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AMD RECOMMENDATIONS
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2002, 10:40:15 AM »
AMD TEMPS

I thought that you guys worried about you AMD CPU temps might want to see this stuff I read on the web.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1345&p=6

"Keep a careful eye on your core temperature. It is normal for 1GHz and faster Athlons to run at temperatures in the low 50s (Celsius), however by using a recommended heatsink/fan you can easily keep your CPU running in the 40s or maybe the high 30s. If your core temperature ever gets above 60C then you have reason to be worried. While that's within the CPU's operating limits, none of the currently available Athlons should ever run that hot if you're using proper cooling."

http://www.merc100.com/socketa_ocpg5.htm

"The technical data sheets for AMD Athlon and Duron processors show that they can operate up to a maximum core temperature of 90C before catastrophic failure. Obviously you will not want to run at temperatures close to that, and in all likeliness would not be stable at such high temperatures. The problem with these processors is that there is not a thermosister inside the core to give the true temperature of the core. Instead there is a thermosistor on the motherboard inside the socket, underneath the core. Because of this, the temperature readings that your BIOS and software report are severely under read. This means that if your BIOS reports a CPU temperature of 50C, the actual temperature inside the core is actually closer to 65-70C. Due to the design and compensation figured by each motherboard company, the amount of under read differs between the manufacturers. As a generalization though, the under read is usually about 15C. I tell you this so if you are running in the 50C range, and are experiencing lockups, you may want to look into additional cooling, instead of immediately expecting a RAM problem."

Enjoy!

r,
KRAT

Offline bloom25

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2002, 12:51:30 PM »
Krat, that's a little outdated.  One addition I forgot to mention for the Palomino core Athlon XPs was the addition of a thermal diode.  Newer motherboards get the die temp right off the CPU, thus they read correctly.  Older boards that originally used tbirds would still be off by a couple degrees, as they don't support this feature of the XP.  It's important to note that no current AMD boards have a CPU powerdown on high temp function, even though Palomino (Athlon XP) and Morgan (Duron >1Ghz) are capable of doing so.  (It's not very hard to implement, so I don't honestly know why it hasn't been done.)

Offline -ammo-

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2002, 12:54:38 PM »
bottom line educated ones... Should 56C (under heavy laod, ie AH) concern me?
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Offline bloom25

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2002, 02:50:49 PM »
Unless you have having problems, that's fine.  It's a little warm, but well within reasonable limits.  My 1300 @ 1339 Mhz Tbird runs at 45C idle and 59C full load (engineering mathematical apps).  AH only can push it to around 55C.

I would periodically (once a month or so) take a look and be sure that temperature isn't coming up.  My rule for Athlon Tbird systems is no higher than 60C full load.

Getting a heatsink off an Athlon tbird can be dangerous if you left that thermal pad on the heatsink (it glues itself to the core).  Unless that temperature keeps coming up, I'd just leave it for now...

Offline -ammo-

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AMD CPU Reccommendations?
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2002, 06:29:59 PM »
bloom--

I applied artic silver when I installed the sink. I completely removed and cleaned the thermal pad from the sink before mounting. I guess i should just leave it alone for now. I have been considering a better heatsink/fan for the processor recently though, maybe one of those copperbased jobs.
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011