Gunnery Lethality

[BUG_EAF322]

I smell a conspiracy

[niklas]

I think AH has not a lethality problem. The problem why people hit at 1000y is a hit area that is larger than the real wing and/or bullets which are larger than 0.5inch or 20mm.

The enlargement of the hit area makes hits much more often happen than in real life.

But i tell you something: Once we played old wb over a network, when a guy who never tried flightsimulator so far wanted to fly. I flew in front of him, to allow him a shot, just for fun.
At the beginning i did some little turns. He had a lot of problems to follow me, loosing sight. Then i hit autolevel and watched him closing up.
To make it short: He wasn´t able to hit me, a straight flying target.
So a realistic small hit area is possible to do in AH, for sure, but it will be very frustrating for newbies.

niklas

[Hooligan]

The problem why people hit at 1000y is a hit area that is larger than the real wing and/or bullets which are larger than 0.5inch or 20mm.

I believe this is incorrect and I have no reason to suspect that AH models projectiles or airframe components at anything other than their real size.

At 1000 yards the cone of gunfire is very large and this is why you can get hits.  I've hit things at 1000 yards before in AH but to the best of my knowledge I've never actually done any significant damage by doing so, although often when I ping a target at long range they turn and allow me to get close enough to kill them.

Hooligan

[Toad]

Originally posted by niklas
I think AH has not a lethality problem. The problem why people hit at 1000y is a hit area that is larger than the real wing and/or bullets which are larger than 0.5inch or 20mm.

The enlargement of the hit area makes hits much more often happen than in real life.

niklas

I also believe this is a totally incorrect statement and a misrepresentation of the situation in AH.

I base this belief on telephone conversations with both HT and Pyro.

Like Hooligan, I have seen hit sprites out to 1.0 and perhaps even 1.1, on my FE, the 1.1 while in a buff. I have not, however, EVER caused the target aircraft any serious damage at that range.

I have been hit at 1.1 on my FE by trailing attackers.. so given the difference due to the internet it was probabl more like 700-800 on the attacker's FE. I have rarely suffered any serious damage at those ranges.. unless I held still like a dunce and let him continue to hit me.

For all the tales of "one ping 1000 yard kills, one rarely if ever sees a film showing it.  Sorta like most "urban legends".

[Skuzzy]

Heya poopster, those long, white-knuckled, battles happen.  I told a tale about one I was in.  It was a while back (I don't get to fly as much as I would like to), but they do happen.

Hehe, mine was not a one on one though.  I was alone and surrounded by 7 other bad guys.  Managed to RTB after going bingo on ammo and fuel.  No kills on either side, but I was shaking for 10 minutes after I landed.

They happen.  You been here for a week,....get some more air time under your wings and they will start happening to you.

[J_A_B]

"It's more pathetic when they kill you with only a ping (la, nikis, spits, f4uc or p38 do it). "

If you're repeatedly getting killed in one ping from long range, I can promise you that you're losing sound packets and the game's  lethality has nothing to do with it.

J_A_B

[funkedup]

Jab here is what I meant before:
Assuming that all the physics are modeled perfectly in the game, the best players will be able achieve better results than WW2 pilots simply because the players can get thousands of times more "trigger time" than the real pilots.

[J_A_B]

So in other words, we're better at AH than real pilots were at the real thing?

That I can agree with.  Sometimes the nature of the internet makes it tough to get the "point" someone is trying to make.

J_A_B

[Mino]

Lethality seems fine to me, IMO leave it alone.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by funkedup
Jab here is what I meant before:
Assuming that all the physics are modeled perfectly in the game, the best players will be able achieve better results than WW2 pilots simply because the players can get thousands of times more "trigger time" than the real pilots.

I would go as far as to say that most experienced AH players are exceptionally good shots compared to real life WWII fighter pilots, because of our experience.

eskimo

[BOOT]

OMG....

No please... don't cut lethality...
When you are like me and live in Roosterpoot USA.  You get dialup connections that remind you of the 9600 baud days...

With the lethality we have today, I still have to fly something with 30mm's to get kills...  

When I was in the Army I fired 50cals a number of times...  6 rounds will tear the watermelon out of a 55gal drum of water

BOOT

[Vermillion]

JAB, what Funked said.  

But I will say that flying "virtually" gave me a very good base when I got up in the air with the real thing.  Not exactly the same, true.  But my Instructor pilot thought I was joking with him, and after the flight asked me how many flight hours I REALLY had, and when I told him I had a total of a half hour in a Cessna 172 when I was about 12 years old, he called me a liar to my face.

I keep hearing tales of "killed at 1k or more" all the time, but why doesn't anyone every get a film of it???  Its like Bigfoot stories. Lots of hype but no proof.

You might get an odd MG ping at 700 or so (and I don't think I've been hit at even that range), but rarely does it do any damage, and then its only if you are flying straight and level. Even the slightest bit of out of plane movement and its almost impossible to get hit.  Most people get killed when they get a ping, panic, and turn around to fight from an inferior position

Yes, if your coming from WB's, the guns here are lethal as all hell. Which is right? Thats hard to get a definitive answer, but I'd personally bet on the AH side.

In WB's you knew you could "take a few pings" and not worry about it.  This lead to long drawn out fights where you had to stick to the enemies six and hose him down for extended periods. Which further lead to long conga lines of planes following each other down to the deck. Which typically favors the turnfighters who can get in position and stay there longer.  Admittedly this leads to longer fights.

This is no "definite" answer to this question, until we all have computers that can accurately perform real time FEA analysis on every portion of every plane component that your modeling. I mean every strut, every wing panel, every fuel line. Every little thing.  And I'm talking a whole hell of a lot more complicated than what Hotseats claiming too do.

[MANDOBLE]

Cant say whether gunnery is right or not, but, for sure, it is designed for a perfect connection netplay. The most "unpleasant" factor is the rate of fire when u are fighting against mircrowarps or packet loose. Lower ROF means that you have less chances to hit when the plane in front of you just "warps" some dozens of pixels, you also have less bullets in the air and so, more chances to do little or no damage due loosing some packets.

Planes with hi roll rates were degraded to a playable condition to prevent roll warps (were the rest of planes degraded proportionally?), but planes with low ROFs were not improved to fight against net lag and lose of packets.

[Rude]

We are all dealt the same hand...what difference does it make regarding acurate this or accurate that....it is close enough and imo better represented than anything else out there within this genre.

If you have troubles killin or being killed, then work on it....whinin won't help your gunnery....if it did, then Ram would have been the best shot in the sim:)

[Hooligan]

Mandoble wrote:

Planes with hi roll rates were degraded to a playable condition to prevent roll warps...

Where do you come up with these gems?  You make me think of what RAM would be like if he had a lobotomy.  

Hooligan