The P47

[Kronos]

I cant believe that Frenchy, Sancho, or Ammo havent beaten me to this post.  As u all knowi i am an avid jug pilot, and ill tell u what, the jug is the best kept secret in AH.

My stats arent great, but they're good enuf. I've got over a 1.5 to 1 kill to death ratio in the p47d30... thats using fighter and attack statistics together.  I've turn fought spits, 205's and niks, and although i dont win many, i win enuf to justify the p47   I love 1v 1 p51 v my jug, or jug 1v1. and ironically my worst opponents are the 109, and 190.

although i didnt win the fight, i fought Moss at the deck my p47, versus his 205, and managed 5 turn passes before he hit me headon to knock my wing off...  this is not bragging, just something to back up my stance, that although not a great turnfighter, in the hands of a capable experienced pilot, the jug can still form a worthy adversary.

I am not the best, nor do i claim to be... i challenge anyone to fight frenchy, sancho, or ammo to a 1 v 1 fight, and see who makes it out alive  .



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Kronos
CO No. 272 Squadron "Whispering Death"
---> http://members.home.net/wchiasson/no272/

[RAM]

The secret of the Jug lies much in the same way as that of the Chog (save the differences between the planes themselfs, of course)

It has an amazing firepower, and with great ballistics. It lacks the one ping-fatal damage syndrome of the hispanos,tho.

But the ammount of lead this thing puts in the air in one second is simply scaring  

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by Buzzbait:
S! all

What you need here is a P-47D-21 Razorback.  This plane weighed 13300 lbs fully fueled with 8 .50's.  It had Water injection and the Hamilton Standard Paddle Blade prop.  At 50% fuel (152.5 gallons) it weighed 12385 lbs with a wing area of 300 Square feet.  That translates to a wingloading of 41.28lbs per Square foot.  

The P-47's you have here weigh in around 14,500lbs fully loaded, for a wingloading of approx. 48.33 lbs per square foot.

The high speed turnrate of the P-47 also needs to be worked on.  This aircraft responded extremely well to inputs at high speed, both in turn and roll.  It did burn energy prodigiously, but it responded.

I also think if this Sim is serious, it should also look at allowing pilots to manually set the level of their boost if the manual control was available.  In the P-47 the pilot could set boost to considerably above the factory reccommended levels, and pilots in dangerous situations routinely did.  Most of their engines held up to this kind of abuse, a few didn't.  The Pratt and Whitney 2800 was renowned for shrugging off the overboost and begging for more.

I know it's an old out of date game but Secret Weapons of the Luthwaffe modeled the P-47C or P-47D-21. It was a match for the 109 and the 190 in turning. The 109G-10 would out climb it. They did quite a bit of research into the planes on SWOTL and the relative performances I think were fairly close. I was shocked when I got on Air Warrior and jumped in my favorite ride form SWOTL and it was a TOTAL pig. The P-47 on AH is much closer to the plane I loved on SWOTL. I think Widewing also pointed out that the models we have are ground attack models and are heavier. That's why they are just a little bit sluggish but still have many of the same characteristics you would expect. All in all the P-47 on AH is a very nice plane and as with all the others needs to be used in its performance envelope.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-07-2001).]

[llbm_MOL]

80% Pilot 20% plane.................
I'd say most of the guys in here as far as flight time have alot more time than Johnson ever thought of. So just about 50% or more of the population are expiereinced Fighter pilots. Curly look me up sometime and we will go to the TA and I will show you a few things a low and slow p47 can do. Your not going to win everytime but you can increase your odds alot.

LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Curly... i should shut up as it's a post in favor of the P47 hehehe, not against it. But... I slightly disagree.

The P47 have a lot of flaws but it has three serious strenghts. I use primarily two of them and they help a lot when I'm attacked by a higher plane or co-alt.

I have no idea how many plane I killed in the D30 last TOD nor how many times I died but I rarely flew above 18K and most of the time, I was engaged co-alt or with less E. I think LJKDern, Wingnuts, Thunderbirds or any of my beloved eni friends can attest that.

First, the dive. Ok sure it doesn't outdive anything but when u reach the 500TAS, not many plane following you can bank/pitch as good as you do.

The stall. I find the P47 very gentle with the stall, probably due to his semi-elleptical wing. The P47 doesn't flip roll like other planes if you pull too much Gs below 200 kts. You can keep the nose in the same attitude when you are stalling. It sure will not make you turn when u need to do so when flying at tree tops at 110IAS with a bad guy on your six. Nevertheless, if you go vertical behind a guy who just zoomed by you and grabs back to safety (typical 109), u can point the nose straight up and keep it there for a couple of secs, using the third strenght of the plane.

Third being the amo load, don't be scared to spray as even a couple of inofensive pings, usually freacks out your opponents and makes him do silly things.

I find the P51 to be my "easier" plane to dogfight, the FW-A8, 109-g10, F4, Typhies, P38 are ok but if I can't kill them before we got below 200 IAS, then I see them going from my 12 to my 6  
The Niki/Spits/Zekes/109-G2 are off course not to be underestimate but at least I can fly faster and run away from them. I never fight them from below contrary to the other models above, I come in, turnfight a bit (u never know, they may be dweebs), then pitch down, hit the 320 and run away.
The worst opponent is definitly the Yak. It turns way better, out accelerate me big time and have about the same top speed (I think).

Off course, except if the guy sucks, a higher Niki/Spit/Yak/La5 is usually sure death.

I f I have something to reproach to the AH-P47 compared to what I read in the books, it may be the dive. In AH it dives better than anything, compression wise, but in combat reports I read, it looked like than the P47 was accelerating others. In AH, it doesn't except when the other one compresses. As afr as turnign better than LW planes, I read a lot of reports some say they outturned LW planes, some sayit didn't  .

What I do usually in those high speed flat turn chases, I drop 1-2 notch of flaps. It slows me down a bit and I can "cut into the turn" and spray. But the counter part is that you are getting slow, if you miss the guy (and usually I do) and he keeps his flat turn, you have to find a way to loop on him on a simily HO and run. Or you will see him gently and slowly closing the circle back in your six.

Curly, I hope it could help you. I'm not an expert, this is just how I use my beloved flying machine. Ask to Ra, Regurge, Westy, Sancho, Ammo those guys are better than me. Salute the AK team for em please  

P.S. Nutz, I had the same disease for the turn fighting, i just loved it, choped throttle and went into a turnfight till I died. I flew with Sancho some, and I learned to keep my speed up and "extend" by looking at him   Those turnfight taught me a lot about P47 handeling at slow speed, but it's not good for your safety as soon as an another guy jumps in the fight.

[Hangtime]

The pony can outurn the Jug; dive with it; outclimb it, zoom with it from co-e and generally outperform it down to 220 IAS. Oddly enuff, slow; it'll get around on you. I treat it like a chog.. avoid the front end, don't overshoot and watch out fer the vert moves when he's fast 'cause he can get over the top better than you at 350.

It's a tuff adversary in skilled hands.. but catching one that don't wanna fight can be tedious. Usually; jug drivers think they can deal with a pony; I usually bank on it.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Airboss Hangtime, you know I was talking of what I noted in general. Any plane is a huge threat to any other plane when flown right.

P51 follows the rule, as a side note, anything outclimb or outturns a P47, especially when slow.

I noticed this probably because a lot of newbies are flying the P51 and have no idea how to fly it.

So far this TOD I got 5 for no death yet.

[dance mode on]
Go P47! - Go P47! - Go P47!-

Shake it Frenchy...wohooo...move this waist...oh year oh yeah... banlance those arms... Go P47!
[danse mode off]

[llbm_MOL]

Hang I'll duel ya

30k start alt you in your 51 me in my Jug-25 or we can just start at 10k and see what happens

LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

[AKcurly]

Thank you for your thoughtful responses.  While I don't agree with all of them, they are challenging to think about.

I haven't had a jug about 30k since 1.03.  In 1.03, the jug (for me anyway) was unstable at 30k+.  

Because of your responses, I did check it at 30k+ and it's reasonably responsive.  I did point its nose at the ground (about a 60 degree angle) from around 23k+ and gently leveled out at 600mph.  It didn't stay there long, but the wings didn't fall off either.  

Thanks again,

AKcurly

[Lephturn]

Curly,

I don't find I have to be that high.  Anything at or above 20k and I start to feel really confident in the Jug.  Up there, I can outrun, outzoom, outclimb, and even outturn most planes in the game.  Up in the 20's, I'll turn with almost anything, although I'll do so in the vertical.  For comparison, try taking a Hog or a Mustang up to 30k.  You'll see what I mean.  

Any of you other Jug pilots fly with less guns?  I've been meaning to try 6x.50's with the small ammo load lately to see how much it affects performance.  I normally use the 8.50's, but I've been experimenting with the regular and overload ammo conditions.  Can anybody tell me what the weight differences will be between the gun and ammo loadouts?  I am going to try the 6 x .50 265 RPG loadout this weekend and see how I do.

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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome!

[Mighty1]

I disagree.

I fly the Jug from time to time and looking back on previous tours I see that I have almost a 2 to 1 K/D ratio.

When I fly the Jug I normally don't have the advantage when I start a fight but if it's only 1 AC against me I usually survive.

Like someone else said most times people don't expect you to turn fight with it and are suprised when you do AND are amazed when you out turn them.

[Ice]

What RA said

[Hangtime]

That would be fun LLB! I suspect I'll be doing a 5 straight nylon letdowns x2; but lets do it anyway.  

A set at 30k; then a set at 10k and I prefer a guns cold merge.   SEA.. none of this unlimited ammo TA doggie do. I'm on most nights between 9 and midnight eastern. Gimme a shout.. if Bishland is safe we'll give it a go.  



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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders"  << Recruiting!!
"Turn to kill, not to engage."
Commander 'Willie' Driscoll, USNR

[Gorf]

Lephturn,

I am a die hard P47 fan and due fly it with less guns and ammo depending no the mission.  if you think it handles great about 20k with 8 50s.. wait till you drop it to 6 50s.

BUT, just the though of having 8 50s makes me drool and I cave in and most of the time due the full 8.

LONG LIVE the JUG

Gorf

[llbm_MOL]

Well I've been switched to evening shift so I might not see ya till I'm back on day shift. Im working while your flying I like the Con method of dueling. You pick an alt, you climb diffrent directions till you get there(course 30k would be a little ridiculous) then you turn and as soon as you turn the fight is on once you both acknowledge its on. You can climb, dive, do flips if ya wanna but its on. The only rule is you cant ignore the fight and run the whole time. You can seek the advantage. Itsa fine line when your talking about dueling jugs and Stangs as the stang is going to run till its in an advantage. Would be interesting to see your tactics We usually do 25% fuel both planes and the TA does have unlimited ammo but this actually helps you not me as the Jug has unlimited ammo anyway, even in the MA

LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!