some questions for the 'anti-Palestinian/pro-Israeli' crowd.

[Masherbrum]

Thanks Nate.

Masher

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Nashwan

Masherbrum, ignore Hortlund. His usual tactic is to tell people to read a book or something.

Check out the other terrorism thread. He doesn't actually seem to read up on any facts himself, obviously.

I just wish people would listen...would save me alot of time having to educate people like you on international law and history.

I just have to smile at your other sentence there. Quite a gem actually. I'm in the middle of responding to your most recent attempt at legal analysis, you'll have it in a minute or two.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
I read enough thank you for caring.

Well obviously not enough history books...

[Masherbrum]

International Law?!

Sweden's Law - When the World need's us, we'll stay neutral!   Insult your yourself.  I'm done with this thread, I've read more than you think Hortlund.  Enjoy your "arrogance", you must believe EVERYTHING you read, that's pathetic.  

Masher

[Nashwan]

I just wish people would listen...would save me alot of time having to educate people like you on international law and history.

Don't be so pompous.

Someone who had never heard of the Fourth Geneva Convention, still refuses to recognize it by that name, despite it being called that by governments and the UN, and who bases his arguments on the title of the treaty, without actually reading it, isn't in a position to educate anyone on international law.

Someone who's logic runs to:

The West Bank wasn't part of Jordan because territory taken in war isn't recognized, but it is part of Israel because they won it in war

shouldn't really be arguing with anyone, let alone lecturing others.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
International Law?!

Sweden's Law - When the World need's us, we'll stay neutral!   Insult your yourself.  I'm done with this thread, I've read more than you think Hortlund.  Enjoy your "arrogance", you must believe EVERYTHING you read, that's pathetic.  

Masher

No, please dont leave this thread. Who will educate us on how the Palestinian refugees were driven from the Golan heights in 1948 now?

Ah, well, maybe Nashwan...

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Nashwan
Someone who had never heard of the Fourth Geneva Convention, still refuses to recognize it by that name, despite it being called that by governments and the UN, and who bases his arguments on the title of the treaty, without actually reading it, isn't in a position to educate anyone on international law.

Dude, you need to get a grip. Exactly what is the correct name of that convention? Does it matter what others choose to call it? Does it matter what lawyers choose to call it? It is important that you express yourself clearly enough so that other people understand what you're talking about. As for the rest of your ramblings, go check out the other thread.  

Someone who's logic runs to:

The West Bank wasn't part of Jordan because territory taken in war isn't recognized, but it is part of Israel because they won it in war shouldn't really be arguing with anyone, let alone lecturing others.

Once again then. The legal aspect of the west bank (copied from the other thread):
When Britain abandoned the territory, the territory became terra nullius. Jordan moved in on the west bank and occupied it. At this moment in time, Jordan owns the west bank. After another war, Israel occupies the west bank. In the peace settlement between Israel and Jordan, Jordan abandons the west bank. Suddenly Israel owns the west bank.

Please read through this explanation a couple of times until you understand it

I dont even know why you bring it up. We have been over this, and you have pretty much accepted it as a fact. Give it up, try to understand that you are in over your head when you try to argue around the legal aspects here.

[Nashwan]

That would mean that Israel "occupies" land that doesn't belong to anyone. And in such a case, the territory occupied is considered a part of the occupying country. Clearly you would not want that, so you must find some other way. How about Jordan then? After the 48-war, Jordan occupied the west bank and claimed ownership over the territory. Problem with that line of argument is that nowadays states never recognize aggressive warfare as a legal way to increase your country's territory. And besides, Jordan has stated that the river Jordan is her western border. That would mean that the west bank is abandoned territory, and thus it belongs to the country claiming it by occupation. And again, Israel owns the west bank.

That was your line of reasoning before.

No one owned it.

Jordan occupied it.

Jordan didn't own it because it was taken in war.

Israel occupied it.

Israel owns it because Israel took it in war.

The sad thing is you can't even see the contradictions in your position.

As regards being out of my depth, you believed the West Bank was part of Israel until I pointed out to you that no-one, not even Israel, claims it's part of Israel.


And you have the nerve to tell others to go and read a book.

[Hortlund]

wtf are you rambling about??

[edit for clarity]
Why would you refer to something I said in a post and then clarified in the post after that? Dont you think that is a bit childish? I mean what are you trying to prove?

[Masherbrum]

Nash, this is the standard response when back-peddling.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Nash, this is the standard response when back-peddling.

Whatever..I guess you'd know all about it.

You should return to the plight of the Palestinian Golan heights-refugees.

[Masherbrum]

Is WHATEVER the word of the 90's!!!!!!?  Original I like that. When that word comes out of people's mouths the ears block out the noise that follows.  

Masher

[Squire]

Lets see Masherbrum says:

"My 2 pennies. I understand where the sentiment of the palestians and have for a long time. think about it, in 1948 you have to leave your home and carry what you can to either Gaza, Golan heights or the west Bank. Didn't Hitler do the same to Poland, oh but that was different wasn't it?"

There was that whole Holocaust thing actually, maybe read something on WW2. Was it different you asked? yes. It was. Btw what country do you think the Polish jews fled to after the war? Go ahead, guess.

"Basically, Israeli's won't get much sympathy here. We founded our country on almost similar terms to what happened to the Palestinians."

Have no idea what thats about, maybe clarify.

As for 1948. The Arab states chose war. They chose war again in 1967, and again in 1973. Always backed, I might add by this country:

The Soviet Union.

You remember them? That really friendly state that had the USAs best interests at heart? Ya, the armament factory for all of them.

Its nice to see such a grasp of history, "Those darn Israelis", ya, what country was instrumental in recognizing them in 1948?

Right, YOURs, the USA, President Truman.

Regards.

[Hortlund]

"Basically, Israeli's won't get much sympathy here. We founded our country on almost similar terms to what happened to the Palestinians."

Have no idea what thats about, maybe clarify.

I'm guessing
Native Americans = Palestines
European settlers=Israelis

Uh, no wait, that doesnt make sense...Shouldnt he be cheering for the Israelis then?

[funkedup]

I'm anti-Israel and anti-Palestinian.  Arm both sides equally and let them waste each other.  Good riddance.