Author Topic: "They raped everyone from eight to 80"  (Read 4791 times)

Offline --am--

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2002, 05:32:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund

Two million rape victims in the eastern parts of Germany, Naso. The number is staggering, two million...


And why not hundred millions? As any proofs of the absurd figures you have not given, hence you have invented them, I begin to think that you usual racist, for which it is not required of the proofs, as he simply trusts in what he wants to trust.

Offline --am--

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2002, 05:39:37 AM »
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
Are you trying to tell us now that the communist dictatorship posted out truths to its people? Like all those western patents that were 'invented' again in USSR? LOL.



What for to invent anew? We simply bought them from those western people, which are always ready to sell everything, including the country and its secrets for ridiculous thousand dollars :)

Offline Naso

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2002, 05:45:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund

... The only thing remotely close are the Japanese troops behaviour in China.
 


And the German troops behaviour in URSS (Hint! hint! ;) ).

This acceptance of troop's behaviour you suggest from the high soviet command, can be read as a cold-minded revenge operation by the commanding power in URSS, for the fury of the war that both nations conducted in the eastern front.

Nothing good.

Anyway, what's the point?

The REAL point, I mean.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2002, 05:50:09 AM »
am no I'm talking about the soviet heroes who invented again several inventions that were previously invented by western scientists. They were used in internal propaganda during the 50's and 60's and up. Those days USSR didn't have dollars to buy any technology from west nor it could because of the high-tech embargo placed on USSR.

A couple prime examples of industrial theft are the old chassis lada's which are exact copies of the 50 model fiat (were still produced unchanged up to 80's btw..) And the Moskvitch engine which is an exact copy of a 70's BMW 2-liter block. USSR didn't pay a dime to the designers for using them as far as I know. I have never heard of any technology licensing to pre-90's russia maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong.
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Offline Hortlund

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2002, 05:56:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by --am--


And why not hundred millions? As any proofs of the absurd figures you have not given, hence you have invented them, I begin to think that you usual racist, for which it is not required of the proofs, as he simply trusts in what he wants to trust.


Well, I think I posted a source up there. Let me post that quote again:
"One doctor deduced that out of approximately 100,000 women raped in Berlin, some 10,000 died as a result, mostly from suicide. The death rate was thought to be much higher among the 1.4 million who had suffered in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. Altogether at least 2 million German women are thought to have been raped, and a substantial minority, if not a majority, appear to have suffered multiple rape."

The Fall of Berlin 1945, Antony Beevor, Viking Press 2002
ISBN: 0670030414

Now, when you say that you don't believe that number, let me ask you what your source is?

Now if you want to claim that Beevor is a racist, or that he just made that number up, that is all up to you. But then you would have to go check his sources and try to argue against those. Good luck buddy.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2002, 06:05:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Naso

And the German troops behaviour in URSS (Hint! hint! ;) ).


Not really.

German troops in Russia usually shot their victims.

You can look all you want, but you wont find any accounts of unpunished gangrapes or even rapes. Perhaps it had to do with the "untermench"-mentality.

It was so absurd, that a German soldier could kill a whole barn full of people and recieve no punishment at all, but if he raped one woman he was stripped of rank and sent to military prison. This was true even in the SS units whose only job was to butcher civilians, any soldier found guilty of rape was sent to military prison (or later, transferred to the really diddlyed up units like 36th SS "Dirlewanger").

Offline --am--

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2002, 06:28:58 AM »
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
propaganda during the 50's and 60's and up.


You confuse scientific opening and patent for the invention. It is normal, that one the problem is worked by(with) tens people in the different countries of the world. And it does not mean, that open repeatedly. It is nonsense. The scientific world is very close also speech can go only about concrete realization of ideas which are known for hundreds and thousand.

Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]

A couple prime examples of industrial theft are the old chassis lada's which are exact copies of the 50 model fiat (were still produced unchanged up to 80's btw..) And the Moskvitch engine which is an exact copy of a 70's BMW 2-liter block.


As to copying that your words allow to make a conclusion, that you never worked on technological manufacture. To copy anything it is impossible. At each country the feature of an industry and final production is let out on that that is in the country, instead of that that is taken at the next countries.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2002, 07:09:33 AM »
--am--

USSR was a completely closed country during the communist years. Those inventions are found in russian books as made by soviet hero1 soviet hero2 etc no mention of having somekind of an international work group on them. I have seen it myself. We had quite a many laughs reading the list of the claims of the soviet scientists. It's like Al Gore inventing the internet - hilarious.

What goes for copying, USSR time government didnt care for international treaties or agreements so they copied whatever technology they could espionage from the west.

Don't try to convince me that USSR actually respected any international treaties or agreements. The high-tech embargo meant that all western technology found there was illegally obtained. Just as today you can find audio records and software sold openly on russian marketplaces - all pirated. You can buy 20 audio cd's for $20 - all latest records. I have bought a few myself so I can verify that also first hand. Software like W2k or OfficeXP are a bit more expensive at about $4 / cd.
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Offline --am--

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2002, 07:19:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
"One doctor deduced that out of approximately 100,000 women raped in Berlin, some 10,000 died as a result, mostly from suicide


What means has deduced? Íe what of mathematics? Or he the doctor? He what personally has interrogated 100 000 women? He personally has opened 10 00 corpses? How the surname is the doctors? What documents he used for ñîåãî of an absurd conclusion?

1. Beever not racist
2. Beever not the historian
3. Beever makes money printing slander.
4. To quote the doctor Beever as is disgusting how to quote the doctor Gebbels

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2002, 07:28:36 AM »
I have to take back what I said about illegal copying of the fiat model since there seems to be a reference about it being manufactured in russia at the official fiat website.

Still it doesn't change the fact that the truth as it was portrayed in the soviet regime wasn't matching the western idea of the truth. I would not trust any official reports made during the communist time.

In a dictatorship the only truth that comes out is the truth the dictator wants to come out.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline straffo

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2002, 07:28:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


Not really.

German troops in Russia usually shot their victims.

You can look all you want, but you wont find any accounts of unpunished gangrapes or even rapes. Perhaps it had to do with the "untermench"-mentality.

It was so absurd, that a German soldier could kill a whole barn full of people and recieve no punishment at all, but if he raped one woman he was stripped of rank and sent to military prison. This was true even in the SS units whose only job was to butcher civilians, any soldier found guilty of rape was sent to military prison (or later, transferred to the really diddlyed up units like 36th SS "Dirlewanger").


That make them better ?

mass murderer vs mass raper ... great ... aren't they both evil ?

Offline Hortlund

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2002, 07:43:19 AM »
Who said anyting about better?

Two sides of the same rotten coin.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2002, 07:47:37 AM »
Yes both sides were evil.

During war there is also always propaganda..
Soviet politruks were feeding their troops horror stories about finnish troops which lead to many of the soldiers choosing suicide instead of imprisonement. They thought they'd get tortured horribly if they got into the hands of the finns.

In reality they were treated humanely most of the times (naturally some warcrimes did happen there) and some of the best behaving prisoners were located to finnish farms where they could do civillian work in relative freedom. Offenders were put to prison camps where an estimated 20 000 prisoners died of hunger and illnesses. The conditions were however better than russian gulags had and the prisoners were released quickly compared to the 30 years the finnish prisoners spent in russia. Not to mention less than 20% of them made it out alive.

Some pro-communist people who went to russia even before the war were lost forever. It was a one way ticket.. They welcomed people in but the border out was closed tight.
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Offline Naso

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2002, 07:48:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


Not really.

German troops in Russia usually shot their victims.

You can look all you want, but you wont find any accounts of unpunished gangrapes or even rapes. Perhaps it had to do with the "untermench"-mentality.

It was so absurd, that a German soldier could kill a whole barn full of people and recieve no punishment at all, but if he raped one woman he was stripped of rank and sent to military prison. This was true even in the SS units whose only job was to butcher civilians, any soldier found guilty of rape was sent to military prison (or later, transferred to the really diddlyed up units like 36th SS "Dirlewanger").


You are missing the point, what do you think will be a "better" revenge, to simply kill people randomly, or rape the women and THEN kill someone too?

One of the most used techniques by occupying and humiliate a country, in the past times, was (and I suspect it is still, Yugoslavia docet) to kill animals and devastate fields, make the victed people feel "untermensch" by using random violence, closing roads, cutting supply, violating property, hitting religious centers, negating education AND raping women to humiliate them and the men survived by exerting a sexual supremacy.

Every army since the old times have been involved in such episodes, sometime knowing perfectly what they were doing, and it's still happening today.
No country in the world can claim to be innocent of such atrocityes, even if officially prohibited by the war law.

P.S.
Some of the above cited tactics of occupation are used by the Israeli army in Occupied Territory, but this is a little OT

Offline straffo

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"They raped everyone from eight to 80"
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2002, 07:57:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Who said anyting about better?

Two sides of the same rotten coin.


I'm perhaps biased due to our old fight but it's how I read your post.