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Author Topic: The law?  (Read 1733 times)

Offline Gunthr

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The law?
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2002, 06:07:05 AM »
The US Constitution, Article 2, is where the President derives his power to convene a  military  tribunal.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2002, 06:09:49 AM by Gunthr »
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Offline Wotan

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The law?
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2002, 06:20:36 AM »
they arent convening a military tribunal.

they are doing nothing.

They declared him an enemy and can hold him until the "war" is over. No trial, no lawyer nothing.

Absent the $10k they found on him theres really nothing (as it is being reported) that could be used to indict him criminally.

The government says he belonged to al quedia therefore his an enemy soldier, now a prisoner of war.
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Offline weazel

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Does that foot in your mouth taste good?
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2002, 06:25:38 AM »
"What is the first thing you do? Start squeaking over the terrorists rights.

You are all diddlying idiots."

For someone who *claims* to be an attorney you construct some poor arguements.

Maybe in your pissant l'il country the law is different, but the US Constitution gives citizens specific legal rights, it's the cornerstone of our legal system.

The Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution states:

 "No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law"

What this ultimately means is that, if charged with a crime, we are considered innocent until proven guilty by the prosecution, beyond all reasonable doubt.

He's a citizen, which gives him the right to a fair trial before his peers, if found guilty he will be punished....

Why do you care anyway, it's OUR laws that Bush and his thugs are trampling.

Pssst, don't look in the mirror, you might see a fediddleing idiot.
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Offline Gunthr

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The law?
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2002, 06:44:09 AM »
Quote
they arent convening a military tribunal.


Still, the President derives his power to treat this case, in  this manner, from the United States Constitution, Article 2.

I think Hortlund makes some good points. There is a critical point where you have to give up certain aspects of a totally open society to effectively deal with things like this. I think we have arrived.
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"When I speak I put on a mask. When I act, I am forced to take it off."  - Helvetius 18th Century

Offline Hortlund

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Re: Does that foot in your mouth taste good?
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2002, 06:45:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
"What is the first thing you do? Start squeaking over the terrorists rights.

You are all diddlying idiots."

For someone who *claims* to be an attorney you construct some poor arguements.

Maybe in your pissant l'il country the law is different, but the US Constitution gives citizens specific legal rights, it's the cornerstone of our legal system.

The Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution states:

 "No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law"

What this ultimately means is that, if charged with a crime, we are considered innocent until proven guilty by the prosecution, beyond all reasonable doubt.

He's a citizen, which gives him the right to a fair trial before his peers, if found guilty he will be punished....

Why do you care anyway, it's OUR laws that Bush and his thugs are trampling.

Pssst, don't look in the mirror, you might see a fediddleing idiot.


Oh great, now another one starts pulling random quotes from the law...gee, I havent seen this before.

Look pal, before we even begin this discussion...do you really think what is happening to that guy right now is illegal?
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Offline Sikboy

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The law?
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2002, 07:12:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


You are all diddlying idiots.


God knows over the past 14 years of my electronic communication (BBS, then GEnie, then the Internet) I've wanted to say that soooooo many times. But really, it's better to leave it unsaid, but prove it through reason.

-Sikboy
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Offline Leslie

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The law?
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2002, 07:17:11 AM »
Prisoner of war?  Wotan, you sound like you're with al queda on this.  Why such a strong committment to the defense of a scumbag like Padilla, who yes, is a scumbag, only worse.  Traitor perhaps, spy most likely.  Why spring to the defense of Padilla so fast?  Addressed to Sandman, Weasel and Easymo also.

Les
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Offline Wotan

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The law?
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2002, 07:22:24 AM »
so when they come to your house and say your a member of al queda and lock ya in charlston naval brig isolated from your family, the general population and even from a lawyer and they tell ya your gonna be there till the "war on terrorism" is over remember "we've arrived"

This guys an obvious pos just from his past record but hes an american citizen and deserve a hearing and a lawyer.

I dont think in this country there should ever be a time "where we have arrived" at a point where we can tolerate giving the government the right without question to hold folks indefinately with out requiring to prove why.

Shoot aint we in a war against drugs. arent drug dealers, smugglers and manufacturere enemy soldiers in that war? Do you think we should just round folks up who we "believe" may be involved in it? arent drug user aiding the enemy.

Its a bunch of crap nonsense. GWB and crew needed to save face with all the crap that going in the news papers about the failure of intelligence. So they drag this guy out.

They knew who this guy is. they could followed him around and set him up to where he actually could have been charged with a real crime. This may have lead to more arrests.
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Offline Wotan

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The law?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2002, 07:27:57 AM »
oh toejam now i am a member of al queda......:eek:

Quote
Wotan, you sound like you're with al queda on this.


whatever, read a newspaper.

No one here is defending that pos. We arguing the government should not be given open ended authority to hold any citizen indefinately without a hearing and legal representation. Period.


:rolleyes:
« Last Edit: June 11, 2002, 08:07:24 AM by Wotan »
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Offline miko2d

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The law?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2002, 07:58:00 AM »
That is amasing. The same people who claim that a curent president is an usurper or that the previous one was a criminal see no problem in givng him (whichever one) a power to "disappear" people on a whim.

 Just grab an american on american soil without any evidence, accuse him of having a conversation with someone else and voila...
 You guys, who ever said anything bad or wished any misfortune to any presient or government official - you should start worrying now.

 Brave new world, here we come...

 miko
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Offline Udie

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The law?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2002, 07:58:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Leslie
Prisoner of war?  Wotan, you sound like you're with al queda on this.  Why such a strong committment to the defense of a scumbag like Padilla, who yes, is a scumbag, only worse.  Traitor perhaps, spy most likely.  Why spring to the defense of Padilla so fast?  Addressed to Sandman, Weasel and Easymo also.

Les




 um... er... uh...  Inocent until proven guilty?  What evidence do they have that he was a spy/traitor?  If they have enough evidence to prove that then surely it's enough to try him in civil court.  

 I don't know what scares me more, what the government is doing to his civil rights or the reaction I'm hearing from Americans.  The talk radio show I heard coming to work really has me scared.  People are ready to hang this guy for doing something that they have no way on Earth of knowing he did or didn't do.  Just because the government says doesn't make it right.
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Offline Apache

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The law?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2002, 08:13:43 AM »
From someone who has/does work with intelligence, some of you are talkin' out your prettythang. You don't have a clue what the gov. has on this terrorist.

Oh, and I bet they would get alot of information from this future intelligence source if he were held by the Justice Dept. Instant invocation of rights. You do know where the gov. got the info on this guy in the first place, right?

And its presumption of innocence, not innocent until proven guilty. TV cop shows ain't real folks.
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Offline weazel

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"Just because the government says doesn't make it right"
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2002, 08:24:01 AM »
Right on Udie!

"Oh great, now another one starts pulling random quotes from the law...gee, I havent seen this before.

Look pal, before we even begin this discussion...do you really think what is happening to that guy right now is illegal?"

Gee, after sticking a foot in your mouth, I would think you would know better than to do it again. ;)

There's nothing"random" about that quote, maybe you should read our Constitution when you get a break from chasing ambulances.

It may not be illegal, if it is I'm sure the thug Ashcroft will see that a loophole is found PDQ.

To deny a citizen due process under constitutional law sets a very bad precedent for the future....and illegal or not is just - wrong.
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Offline Apache

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The law?
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2002, 08:30:39 AM »
There is already a precedent weazel. It was in WWII.
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Offline Sandman

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The law?
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2002, 08:39:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Apache
From someone who has/does work with intelligence, some of you are talkin' out your prettythang. You don't have a clue what the gov. has on this terrorist.

Oh, and I bet they would get alot of information from this future intelligence source if he were held by the Justice Dept. Instant invocation of rights. You do know where the gov. got the info on this guy in the first place, right?

And its presumption of innocence, not innocent until proven guilty. TV cop shows ain't real folks.


Fine then. They should display this evidence in court.

Who knows? The next person they drag off just might be you.
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