Does the F8F have a place here?

[Charon]

A question for the Aircraft historians....I seem to remember somewhere that the origins of the F8 came from when Gruman got a look at a captured FW and thought...."Ya know, this thing would be awsome with a Pratt&Whitney engine" Any truth there?

I read that in an Air Classics once, but i can't find the mag. I believe they wanted to take the FW concept and stretch it to its extremes, which they seem to have accomplished. It would probably be like a super N1k2, in fact far beyond the so called "UFO" FM version. I would think it would fill that role against p-51hs, TAs, Spit 14s, etc. in a super planes CT environment.

Charon

[Steven]

"As a final demonstration of the Bearcat's fantastic climbing ability, an F8F is reported to have set the record for a climb of 10,000 feet from a standing start in 91 seconds. It is said to have held this record for almost three decades, until finally beaten by an F-16 Fighting Falcon. The author witnessed a maximum performance takeoff by a civilian Bearcat in the late 1960s, and the airplane went up straight and out of sight."

From here:
http://nasaui.ited.uidaho.edu/nasaspark/safety/f8f/f8ftechnical.htm

[Otto]

Better to put the F8F in a '1946 Arena"

[GRUNHERZ]

Grumman chief designer and chief test pilot and of prewar racing fame Robert "Bob" Hall along with possibly Leroy Grumman himself went to England in 1943 and test flew a captured Fw190A5. They are often quoted "If we put a R2800 in this thing we'd have a world beater!" Out of this they propsed the F8F project to the navy, IIRC there was no standing navy requirement for a lightweight compact figther.

They designed the Bearcat out of this experience, it is based on the FW190 concept and is not a direct development of the F4F or F6F concept. Bearcat and FW190 match almost perfectly in proportion, wingspan, length, and weight. The F8F has a wider wing.

Kurt tank didnt invent F8F, but he invented the plane that F8F was based on.  

If some of you arent happy about this fact then go happily screw yourselves....  

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Grumman chief designer and chief test pilot and of prewar racing fame Robert "Bob" Hall along with possibly Leroy Grumman himself went to England in 1943 and test flew a captured Fw190A5. They are often quoted "If we put a R2800 in this thing we'd have a world beater!" Out of this they propsed the F8F project to the navy, IIRC there was no standing navy requirement for a lightweight compact figther.

They designed the Bearcat out of this experience, it is based on the FW190 concept and is not a direct development of the F4F or F6F concept. Bearcat and FW190 match almost perfectly in proportion, wingspan, length, and weight. The F8F has a wider wing.

Kurt tank didnt invent F8F, but he invented the plane that F8F was based on.  

If some of you arent happy about this fact then go happily screw yourselves....  

I am not saying this is not true, but the only place I have ever heard this is in this forum. Is there any sort of documentation to back that up?

[Spritle]

I would bet the Bearcat uses a different airfoil (than an Fw), as well as almost every other part on the plane.  Besides the fact that it is powered by a radial aircooled engine it shares almost nothing with the Fw.  Period.  They certainly may have flown an Fw and thought WOW.  But to say that the Bearcat is somehow a copy of or an improvement on a Fw is utter hogwash.

Notice that the Bearcat is a mid-wing aircraft.  Like every Grumman monoplane in the cat family before it.  Notice the Fw is NOT a mid-wing design.  Geeze I don't know where this stuff gets started.  The Bearcat is the logical progression of the Cat family, end of story, cya later, bye bye.

Spritle

[wulfie]

No it's not hogwash there was a writeup about it in an aviation magazine long (3+ years) ago.

And just like here, I mentioned it over on AGW and for some unknown and dumb reason some had a hard time believing it.

No one is saying that 'the F8F was awesome because it was an American copy of the Fw 190'.

It was the same concept - that is all. Big radial engine, screw sustained turn, etc. All engine great roll rate great performance (speed/climb/accel/etc.) to heck with everything else. Compare the F8F to the F6F and F4U in terms of concept. Look at the wing area, etc.

I cannot remember the magazine unfortunately.

Mike/wulfie

[Hobodog]

Not to mention 4 yes 4 high velocity 37mm cannons in the XP47.

[Tac]

so in short, it just was a tad faster than the P-38

[Tac]

Wilbus, although that comment does bring a smile, it really does mean it saw combat. Lol =)

[Wilbus]

What comment?

[funkedup]

It's really not much different from an La-7.  Just better performance at high altitudes.

[Steven]

Bearcat looks more like a GB racer than a FW to me.  I don't think the FW broke any new ground in trying to mate a large engine to a small airframe either.  I don't dispute the quote about the FW by the Grumman team, but I'm not sure I'd accept that the Bearcat is a FW knockoff.  In fact, sounds like a slam against German engine manufacturing to me.  By war's end aircraft are starting to look kind of a like to me... large radial engine, small airframe, bubble canopy... sounds like Georges, LA7s, Bearcats and probably much more.  The Bearcat looks like a streamlined Wildcat with a monster engine to me too.

As I've said before...  Give me a Bearcat and I'll stop whining about the LA7.

[whgates3]

if seeing combat qualifies a plane for AH, then i think the F7F qualifies.  F7F-3Ps flew a few operations for the US Marine Corps towards the end of WWII.  Since the F7F's was designed as a twin engine carrier bomber, i dont think the rule about shooting at someone should apply (the Arado Shnellbomber certainly never shot at anything)

[Wilbus]

Shoot something, bomb something etc