Author Topic: Should the Dewoitine D 520 have a place in AH? (Read 1566 times)

Soviet · « **Reply #30 on:** June 28, 2002, 07:50:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Soviet,

I agree about adding the Yak-3 with the VK105 engine. It would make a good addition. The Tu-2S would also be a nice addition.

As to the Ki-84's performance, well, it really depends on which data they use. The typical data that is used in sims gives the Ki-84 a deck speed of about 345mph and a top speed of 392mph at about 20,000ft.

However, there is a lot of debate about that being correct. I have seen many posts here that claim those numbers were obtained by a proto type Ki-84 that didn't have an engine as powerful as the main production models.

In US tests, with much higher octane fuel than the Japanese had, the Ki-84 was faster than the P-51 at all altitudes up to 20,000ft. It peaked at 422mph in US tests.

HTC modeled the N1K2 with the low octane Japanese fuel so I would expect the Ki-84 to be the same. It might slightly exceed 400mph at its best altitude, or it might hit the 392mph spot on.

Sounds fairly balanced (the Ki84)

Soviet · « **Reply #31 on:** June 28, 2002, 07:59:11 PM »

but mainly, instead of adding some other US fought theater or something like that. Russia, Japan, and Italy need a nice planeset. The Yak-3 and Tu-2S would advance russia nicely. Ki-43, Ki-84, Ki-44, G4M. and some japanese torpedo bomber would fit the rest of japans planeset nicely too. Italy could use some nice planes too but i'm not too sure of what they used.

After these are added Germany despratly needs a decent bomber, the He-177 would fit this role good (oh and karnak, the bombload wasn't as great as you thought it was when i asked for the He-177 before, the A-5 version which should be added only carries a few thousand pounds of bombs) an Me-410 would be nice too (And you could get a Me-210 easily out of the model). Hs-219 would be nice too.

As of the next patch i suggest we lay off the US planes for a while, the US planeset is now HUUUUGE.

Also after all this is done it would be really cool to see a night figther thing. With say all the usual candidates, night fighting mossie, night fighting Bf-110, He-219 (Although maybe not this one cause it wasn't used too much), oh and a popular favorite P-61!

. How i would like this to be implemented is say, when it's night time enemy icons are OFF friendlies are on (cause there is no different plane between countries) the way to find enemies would be the planes onboard radar.

Karnak · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2002, 08:11:27 PM »

Soviet,

I have nothing against adding the He177. Even with the data people were posting for it I didn't have a problem with it, I just thought it would need to be perked if it actually did what was being claimed of it. If its got a B-17 like bombload (4,000lb to 8,000lbs) I'd see no reason to perk it.

I still think the Ju188A-1 is the way to go, but hey, that's just my opinion.

The H8K2 "Emily" would make a much better addition than the G4M2 "Betty". The Betty'd be a hanger queen if there ever was one.

The H8K2 is better in every way in regards to performance. From HTC's perspective it'd be a huge amount of work. The H8K2 would be the biggest aircraft in AH if it were added right now.

Sikboy · « **Reply #33 on:** June 28, 2002, 08:42:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Soviet
Russia, Japan, and Italy need a nice planeset.

But the French don't even get one plane?

-Sikboy

ra · « **Reply #34 on:** June 28, 2002, 08:53:25 PM »

<<>>

The P-47M or N would probably be more popular than the Ki-84. Me-410 would not be a hangar queen either, or the Yak-3. But we are running out of uber planes to model, so it's a good time for the D.520 and other putt-putt planes.

ra

cajun · « **Reply #35 on:** June 28, 2002, 08:56:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Soviet
what i meant is The Germans need some stuff fixed "Like the damn 190F8 ARMORMENT!!!!!"

and also, i'm sick of these early war hanger queens. I want some nice mid-late war planes. Like the Tu-2S, He-177, Me-410, Il-2M3 with 2 37mm cannons. Yak-3 and Yak-3 with VK-107A engine.

I love scenarios as much as anyone but these planes really don't have much of a place in the MA. The only way Early war planes would get usage would be a rolling plane set. I'd say have it set so the time of the war changes every 20 hours.

A lot of things need fixing however, like new art for some planes (P-51, and B-17 are in need of a face lift and it would be nice for some new 190 and 109 art too). Bugs need to be corrected (like for instance if you select 2 250kg bombsi n the bf110g2 you get 2 500kg bombs)

New weapons need to be added like Mk-103 pods for the 190a8 (And yes they were used a fair amount don't start that they weren't used much) R4M rockets would be nice too. Panzerblitz rockets for the 190f8 (HT? Pyro? are you awake on this this has been requested for tours upon tours)

I have to say that a lot needs fixing before they start adding new stuff.

But to start work on EARLY war planes would be a waste of resources IMO

Allmost all of the planes we have are Late war planes, I love to see HTC adding early war planes for a change, and if you think they won't get flown in MA.... You're definitly wrong.
I love to fly early war planes, not cuz they are the latest and the greatest, but cuz they are challenging, and look really cool, and it gets a little boring to see all latewar spits,temps,n1ks etc.
And we don't have half the early war planes for any good scenarios earlier than 1942/43.

AH is definitly lacking early war planes, we don't even have a b25
much less I-16's,I-153's and the brewsterbuffalo for a russian front or GlosterGladiators, CR42's & italian bombers for malta scenarios.

If we have ME262's and Spit14's that hardly served a few years in the war, we should have early war planes, besides what do you not like about em? If you don't like em, just look at em as easy targets!

whgates3 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 29, 2002, 08:01:19 AM »

D. 520s were used inthe defense of Polesti & recaptured planes were used by French units in the clearing out of SW France in '44 - '45...not just an early war plane...dont think they did too much dogfighting with Doras though, but were probably just fine for straffing troops

plumbob · « **Reply #37 on:** June 29, 2002, 11:31:05 PM »

YES!
The french really need some kind of representation! That twin engine plane the french had might also be a nice addition (thogh i dont remember its name)

whgates3 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2002, 01:02:26 AM »

Bruget 690 series or Amoit 350 series probably

BenDover · « **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2002, 06:25:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by plumbob
YES!
The french really need some kind of representation! That twin engine plane the french had might also be a nice addition (thogh i dont remember its name)

yeah, and its not *that* ugly

Dr Zhivago · « **Reply #40 on:** June 30, 2002, 07:35:39 AM »

Breguet Br-693
Single uber hizpano cannon and two 7,5mm MGs are visible at nose. Bristol Beaufighter is similar looking plane...

Dr Zhivago · « **Reply #41 on:** June 30, 2002, 07:42:32 AM »

Br-693 carried also two 7,5mm MAC34 mgs (back cockpit, ventral position) and 400kg (880lb) of bombs...

Esme · « **Reply #42 on:** June 30, 2002, 11:09:02 AM »

Who gives a monkeys what would be most useful or what wouldnt get used (supposedly) in the MA?

The MA has very VERY little to do with what WW2 air combat was about. It is completely unrepresentative. All the MA is is a bunch of people having fights under very unrealistic conditions with WW2 aircraft, in simulation. (And sure, I join in, and sure it's fun at times, for a while. But it ain't a simulation of WW2).

The real WW2 had an RPS (rolling plane set). It had an early part where there were early war planes against other early war planes, some of which were obsescent or even obsolete even by the standards of the day. It had a middle part, with somewhat better planes and a lot of the old ones still in service. It had a late part, dominated by late war planes, but with some early types STILL hanging around.

The supply of aircraft depended upon production and logistics to support them. Aircraft were flown in units, to orders. Targets didnt miraculously rebuild in 15 minutes. And so on, and so on.

Add planes that are useful in scenarios as the FIRST criteria. They'll get used or not in the MA depending on the conditions there and individual preference, and whatever happens, the MA will STILL be more like an aerial FPS than a simulation of WW2 air combat, so long as players of all sides are free to choose planes of any side from any point in the war.

And if the He177 gets added, I will be immediately launching a campaign to get a "reliability factor" built into planes to mimic the effects of real unreliability problems.

It'd be nice to see folks asking for more REPRESNTATIVE planes more often, and to express some delight in putting actual SKILLS to use, rather than simply stamping their feet and crying because they don't have the plane with the biggest engine, biggest and most guns or bombload, irrespective of whether it ever actually saw service or was an engineers nightmare.

Continually demanding "better" planes in that manner is generally a mark of a very poor pilot, and certainly an immature one, IMO. Learn to fly; learn to fight; there isnt any WW2 plane which can make up for a deficiency in basic piloting and combat skills.

Esme

Kevin14 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 30, 2002, 01:02:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Esme
Who gives a monkeys what would be most useful or what wouldnt get used (supposedly) in the MA?

The MA has very VERY little to do with what WW2 air combat was about. It is completely unrepresentative. All the MA is is a bunch of people having fights under very unrealistic conditions with WW2 aircraft, in simulation. (And sure, I join in, and sure it's fun at times, for a while. But it ain't a simulation of WW2).

The real WW2 had an RPS (rolling plane set). It had an early part where there were early war planes against other early war planes, some of which were obsescent or even obsolete even by the standards of the day. It had a middle part, with somewhat better planes and a lot of the old ones still in service. It had a late part, dominated by late war planes, but with some early types STILL hanging around.

The supply of aircraft depended upon production and logistics to support them. Aircraft were flown in units, to orders. Targets didnt miraculously rebuild in 15 minutes. And so on, and so on.

Add planes that are useful in scenarios as the FIRST criteria. They'll get used or not in the MA depending on the conditions there and individual preference, and whatever happens, the MA will STILL be more like an aerial FPS than a simulation of WW2 air combat, so long as players of all sides are free to choose planes of any side from any point in the war.

And if the He177 gets added, I will be immediately launching a campaign to get a "reliability factor" built into planes to mimic the effects of real unreliability problems.

It'd be nice to see folks asking for more REPRESNTATIVE planes more often, and to express some delight in putting actual SKILLS to use, rather than simply stamping their feet and crying because they don't have the plane with the biggest engine, biggest and most guns or bombload, irrespective of whether it ever actually saw service or was an engineers nightmare.

Continually demanding "better" planes in that manner is generally a mark of a very poor pilot, and certainly an immature one, IMO. Learn to fly; learn to fight; there isnt any WW2 plane which can make up for a deficiency in basic piloting and combat skills.

Esme

Esme, couldn't have said it better. I fly planes becuase they are fun, challenging, or maybe just look cool I agree that the Dewoitine D.520 should be added becuase it would represent France which at the moment doesn't have any airplanes. Since France capitulated early in the war they should have one of their best planes, the D520, representing them for the moment until HTC can make more fighters for France. Just my $0.02

whgates3 · « **Reply #44 on:** June 30, 2002, 03:30:44 PM »

the D. 520 had a reputation as a hell of a turn fighter. Probably why it did so well against the Hurri in Syria. I'd be great fun to put it up against a Spit I, Emil or Zero....speaking of which, what was the tightest turning monoplane fighter of WWII? Oscar?