Scoop on Combat Trim

[Tac]

"Then use autotrim in angle. Been there, done that. And I dont believe that you havent done it too. You seem to like the combat trim ,then say it. But dont support it with these arguments because they are nothing."

You CANT use trim in angle or ANY kind of trim when you are following a turning, evading con youve been following from high alt to the deck.

"I love the challenge of air combat, and I wont put this thing on. But to know that the guy in front of me me has it and so has a marked advantage that I dont have,is simply something I wont stand. "

So you telling me that the guy with the HOTAS and RW setup doesnt have a *distinct* advantage over the non-hotas, non-rw player?. While my plane craps out because of trim as I follow, the HOTAS equipped player has an easy time compensating for the trim thats fighting against him.

Trim is THE main reason why I dont fly such great planes like the 109. Even the Yak, a plane that doesnt "trim out" that much after a long dive still flips me over in the deck if I ease on the stick or center my rudder (with keyboard) to get a shot... the moment I do that it will flip over on its own.

I don't know if you use HOTAS or not RAM, but it seems to me that you do. If you dont, then let me know what kind of mega-precision joystick or keyboard you are using, i'll need to steal one of those.

"Now why is it a guy who doesn't have the first clue about energy vs angle is supposed to be able to fight me on equal terms??????"

I believe that is why HTC may not want to make newbie arenas. In my opinion, putting them with skilled people will make them learn a LOT faster, and the community here is very supportive. If it worked for me, the most pathetic ACM when I came in and 3 or 4 weeks later I managed to get multi kill sorties thanks to trainers and other who kindly let me join their planes to watch how they flew...it will work for anyone.

The combat trim will not make newbies be on equal terms with the pros. In my opinion, it will give everyone a fair chance at the controls of the plane (aka hotas-vs-non-hotas).

[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 09-03-2000).]

[RAM]

You CANT use trim in angle or ANY kind of trim when you are following a turning, evading con youve been following from high alt to the deck.

But you CAN use it while you are diving and/or climbing. And in the turns you dont need a lot of trim.

So you telling me that the guy with the HOTAS and RW setup doesnt have a *distinct* advantage over the non-hotas, non-rw player?. While my plane craps out because of trim as I follow, the HOTAS equipped player has an easy time compensating for the trim thats fighting against him.

yes, I dont use RW (my english is awful)-And yes,I dont have HOTAS...

Still the HOTAS guy has an advantage. BUT the HOTAS guy has no guilt because you haven't it!!!, If you want it go to a shop and buy them, if you can, or stick with what you have, as I do.

Trim is THE main reason why I dont fly such great planes like the 109. Even the Yak, a plane that doesnt "trim out" that much after a long dive still flips me over in the deck if I ease on the stick or center my rudder (with keyboard) to get a shot... the moment I do that it will flip over on its own.

You dont fly 109 because you DONT WANT. 2 months ago I had a CH virtual pilot joke...er yoke.2 buttons, one of them working very bad, and a little thrust stick. TM elite rudder pedals. Nothing else.

I flew G10 as soon as I got the rudders,wich was only 3 months after starting here. I flew G10 well trimming it with keyboard only and tracking cons with keys. And I did VERY well in it.

If you dont fly G10 is because you cant, or you dont want. As easy as that.

I don't know if you use HOTAS or not RAM, but it seems to me that you do.

ROFL!

If you dont, then let me know what kind of mega-precision joystick or keyboard you are using, i'll need to steal one of those.

F16 combat stick, sent by Saw (THANKS SAW!!!!) when I started having SERIOUS spiking troubles with my yoke (breaking 190 wings in 350 IAS 3G pullouts, go figure).
 And TM Rudder pedals.

I keep track on enemies with KEYBOARD. I think still that I wont use padlock, as I do well with them. But I understand that people with 2 button sticks as me not so long ago, would welcome a padlock.

But TO TRIM, sir, KEYS WORK JUST FINE. Autotrim in angle trims the plane during fast changes of speed and rudder trim is ALL you nead in close turnfights. Maybe a bit of elevator (2 or 3 touches of key)too. I know it well. I know how do I trim my plane.

Useless excuses, tac. That is all you gave here.

"Now why is it a guy who doesn't have the first clue about energy vs angle is supposed to be able to fight me on equal terms??????"

I believe that is why HTC may not want to make newbie arenas. In my opinion, putting them with skilled people will make them learn a LOT faster, and the community here is very supportive. If it worked for me, the most pathetic ACM when I came in and 3 or 4 weeks later I managed to get multi kill sorties thanks to trainers and other who kindly let me join their planes to watch how they flew...it will work for anyone.

The combat trim will not make newbies be on equal terms with the pros. In my opinion, it will give everyone a fair chance at the controls of the plane (aka hotas-vs-non-hotas).[/QUOTE]

OH LOL!...the problem is that this thing is not going to be used by newbies, yah know. A lot of scorepotatos will use it.
Damnit even normal guys will do it.

This is a BIG can of worms, and HTC is about to open it...

I will give it a chance. Not a big one, tho. If I see what I fear then I'll go, is easy.

They have the right to do their bussiness their way, and I salute them for it. But I have the right to go when I start to dislike things a lot. As I said some months ago I will go with no problems and with no hard feelings. THey must earn money.

But with EZtrims, they wont earn MY money. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh but it is like that.

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by Revvin:
let HTC explain combat-trim as he did with the padlock and hold our judgement till then.

Revvin, lets see. Padlock can be discussed or not discussed, But for sure a pilot in WWII didnt have to press 5-2 in the numeric keypad of his plane controls to see the con in his high 6. People here have to do it. And so a padlock have a (relative) ammount of realism involved. I wont use it, that for sure, still I think is not **THAT** bad.

But in WWII planes had to be trimmed. So I expect planes that need to be trimmed here. If a EZ thing ruins that then will ruin my fun too, because it breaks what AH is for me, the most challenging sim ever.

But, while I like challenge, I dont like cheats. And EZtrim will be just that. A completely unrealistic cheating mode.

[Staga]

I really hope this sim isn't gonna be a FAII game with 30$/month...

[CptTrips]

Uhhh nevermind.
Wab

[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 09-03-2000).]

[CJ]

Aces High has auto trim.  It has trim keys.  It has auto fuel management.  It seems to me that too many newbies want to be able to engage anyone, and come out on top on the basis of their agressiveness instead of planning, tactics, and flying skill.  I use a microsoft Sidewinder 3d pro that i bought used for 25 bucks, and I use the kb for trim and views.  I do better without a Hotas.  Maybe some of the newbies should learn to live with the consequences of being too agressive.  If you engage someone with superior skill, equiptment, altitude, numbers, and tactics, you deserve to loose.  If these people can't learn to live with a fair playing field, then they'll quit no matter how easy the flight model is.  Hitech Creations can add mods to make it easier, and the better players will still win regardless, and the people that don't want to learn to fly will just keep complaining.  They'll quit anyway, and the core of avid sim people will be gone too since it's no more a sim.  It's too bad the flight sim companies seem to think that they can make billions on simulators.  it just never happens because there aren't THAT many people that are into aviation enough to stick with it, and the short-attention-span arial pitbulls get tired of jumping fangs first into a meat grinder time and time again since they don't want to learn to fly.

Hopefully a day will come when a company like this will run without dreams of cashing in.  I "think"that's how Hitech Creations started, and I'm pretty sure that Warbirds started the same way.  Sims come and go, and if Aces High does too, then maybe WW2 OL will hold the hardcore sim fan's attention for a while.  

In closing, I just want to thank the creators of this sim for the time that I've already spent in it, and the fun that I've already had, beause no Auto-Compat-Trim-Gunner-Bail feature will ever take that away from me.  I look forward to more fun with Aces High, and whatever sim that can top it.  

[Fatty]

     I use shift-x to establish proper trim settings for specific speeds and loadouts, so that I can later manually set them and be accurate at dive-speed for bombing.  This is in fact more accurate than the proposed combat trim can ever be, from the basis of objections stated here I supposed we should get rid of x, alt-x and shift-x?
     Even in furballs I prefer my trim static, so I know what I'm dealing with in regards to elev and roll.  I assume most "advanced" pilots are either in this catagory or like to trim on the fly according to their preferences.  I more than likely won't be using combat trim, as it is a system that by design will be inaccurate, but I see it as immensly helpful to the poor guy trying to learn how to fly.

Of course I could be wrong, perhaps we shouldn't be able to magicly hit 'X' and have our plane go in a straight line like us cheaters have been doing.

------------------
Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards
"Never before in the field of human conflict was so little owed to so few that weighed and drank so much."

[Hangtime]

Damn. How'd this get to the extreme so fast?

What impact WILL 'combat trim' have?

Will it make gunnery more simplistic and effective? (shooting while out of trim is a missed shot)

Will it make cornering at the edge of a stall fools play?

Will spins become impossible? Simplify recovery?

I dunno.. lets find out before we wipe the hard drive for heracy.

Hang

[Gadfly]

EZ take-off
EZ SA(padlock)(icons)
EZ Trim
EZ Radar
EZ Gunnery(bombers)

Gettin pretty damn easy.


Oops!  Lizking


 

[This message has been edited by Gadfly (edited 09-03-2000).]

[easymo]

 revvin. ive heard that song before. I was very good at ezmode in WB. I read over and  over how it was a disadvantage. Trust me, it was'nt. Why do you think 60% of the people left the main, over there, when they turned off the ezmode in that arena.

 And BTW, let me add. Im not put out by this at all. We dont know what HT has planned for the future. Im sure there will be another arena, at some point, for the guys the want a little more challange. And you can set up an H2H arena to suit you. This does away with any real argument we might have anyway.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 09-03-2000).]

[Wingnut_0]

 

Originally posted by easymo:
I was very good at ezmode in WB. (edited 09-03-2000).]

Easy..this isn't a slam on you, just replying to the thread in general.

You mean all this spouting I've heard about WB and you guys had realistic and easy modes in the same arena?  hehe..sry but that's funny to me.

If a combat trim gives newer players a good learning curve then so be it.  As was pointed out earlier, not everyone has a HOTAS.  

As everything it will have it's up's and down's but right now flying these planes feels like they already have a combat trim.  There's no "atmosphere", no wind pushing you etc (if there is, you couldn't prove it to me) so once your stable, your stable.


Either way, it's too early to pass any judgements, so just let it ride until the time comes  

Wingnut

[easymo]

 I was just the only guy that didnt lie about it

[SFRT - Frenchy]

TAC, I have a 4 buttons joystick and I'm perfectly fine. I have my left hand on the stick and my right hand on the views. The trim is configured on the '4 arrows'.

Trim, I use it all the time like in real life. Auto-trim? humm I don't know, I think I will keep it manual.

I remember the EZ mode in WB, I couldn't fly it because I couldn't "ride the stall" because of the "no stall" stuff. As mostly u win a fight because of that, it was of no interest for me to use it. Maybe the auto-trim will be good for B&Z only, turn fighters will probably keep it manual.

Anyway, real pilots do everything themselfs   satisfaction comes from that.

[Yeager]

It does not take a brain surgeon to understand that a feature that automatically trims a plane throughout the flight envelope
is merely a new age version of the classic easy mode feature.

Yeager

[Citabria]

um-kay

ez mode is bad um-kay

screw it i dinnae mind.
I always did like x-wing vs. tie fighter
no really i do  
make it as easy as ya want

need a new arena name for these ez features:

Aces Pong