Author Topic: Scoop on Combat Trim  (Read 1652 times)

Offline Sparks

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Scoop on Combat Trim
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2000, 06:50:00 AM »
View of a Newbie ......

OK - what is the hardest thing to work in terms of trim for a newbie - for me it's torque. This is usually overcome with a combination of Aileron and rudder in different amounts according to the response of the aircraft at different speeds. Would I find it easier to fly if the FE could automatically trim my rudder and aileron as I dived into a merge - absolutely. Do I want it to - NO.

I came to this sim from AW because of the increased complexity of the flight model which made me feel like I had achieved something when I learned to land, take-off in a Tiffie etc. I have goals I want to achieve - people I have set my sights to beat and I know that to do it is going to need time, effort and some expense (rudder pedals, decent graphics card etc.).

I think this comes down to the core discussion of who the target market is for this sim and how you attract and keep them. IMO the issue is not one of auto this and that but of training and support for the new flyer. Do HTC want gamers or people who see this as there chance to fly without the cost of a real airplane ?? Only HTC can call that one.

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2000, 07:33:00 AM »
I sort of feel bad for starting this thread and lots of angry posts as a result.

I think I regret making the initial post. Should have waited and seen what ct tunred out to be before voicing my concerns.

OTOH, now is the time to voice those concerns, because now they have more weight.

Talk about torn between two things.



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Offline Fury

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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2000, 07:55:00 AM »
I don't ever manually trim my plane in flight (and it probably shows in my score or dogfighting skills -- I'm sure I'm not getting the best performance out of my craft).  I do use the auto-level and auto-climb though.

Since I currently never manually trim my aircraft, it sounds to me like I may gain some help from this "combat trim" feature (it is important to note that the only thing I have heard about this is from what I have read in this thread, therefore I really am not sure what "combat trim" will be).

So is combat trim a good or bad thing?  I have not tried it yet, so I can only speculate.  Given the fact that I do not trim my plane, I can only speculate that I would be one who would stand to gain if I started using combat trim.  If the purpose is to automatically trim my plane, and I am not currently manually trimming, then I would expect to get better performance while using combat trim.

However, like padlock, I will most likely not use it.

Fury

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2000, 08:28:00 AM »
StSanta..

I suspect we'll have Hobson's choice.

Don't whip yerself for voicing an opinion or placing a question before the rest of us.. the ISP Secret Police already have yer name.  

We love the game, just like you do. We all guard jealously those things that make it fun for us.. and really, your thoughts and concerns are part and parcel to the process of development of the sim. Right?

Of course, this being a benevolent dictatorship; we're all due for a friendly bullet any time now.  

Hang

 
Quote
Hob·son's choice (hbsnz chois)
n.

An apparently free choice that offers no real alternative.

[After Thomas Hobson (1544?-1630), English keeper of a livery stable, from his requirement that customers take either the horse nearest the stable door or none.]


[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 09-04-2000).]
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2000, 08:33:00 AM »
""Where are the 'realism' folks when we need them??!!""

Perhaps the realism folks slowly are givin up...

AH 1.04
*Combat trim
*FM´s gonna hold E better
*Padlock

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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-

[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 09-04-2000).]
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2000, 08:57:00 AM »
Ouch.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2000, 09:23:00 AM »
Whine is overmodelled in this BBS  

1st post 5:00 last 8:57 total post : 50 about a post every 5 minute...good performance  

And
1st: we have no official annoucement (even if I trust StSanta and Camo I'll wait to read this in the news  forum  )

2nd: who has tried it ... ?

We are reacting about Vaporware  

Regards
Fred

Offline danish

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« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2000, 09:25:00 AM »
Nothing new here - so you can skip this ;=)
However this could be a crossroad so in the vain hope to try and influence the future Ill have to say:
1) Ill wait and see
2) If it makes the auto trimmers better or on par than the (good) manual trimmer Im out.
3) Im pretty certain that 2) wont be the case - or if it will be patched in 24 hours heh.

IMO the same argument goes for the padlock.


Jeezz I hate these kind of posts :=P

danish

vadr

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« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2000, 09:27:00 AM »
 
Quote
Will it make gunnery more simplistic and effective? (shooting while out of trim is a missed shot)


Hhhmmmmmmm..........

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Offline DmdBT

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« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2000, 09:52:00 AM »
For that matter, why don't we have a "Combat Gunnery" mode that doubles the muzzle velocity and has a flat trajectory so the new players can practice their gunning skills and not be at such a disadvatage in the arena.  I'm sure that once they gain confidence in their shooting skills they will turn it off and experience the thrill of actually having to WORK for a kill. Oh wait, people don't want to have to WORK for anything at $30/month.

T

Offline Minotaur

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« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2000, 10:30:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Fatty:
    I use shift-x to establish proper trim settings for specific speeds and loadouts, so that I can later manually set them and be accurate at dive-speed for bombing.  This is in fact more accurate than the proposed combat trim can ever be, from the basis of objections stated here I supposed we should get rid of x, alt-x and shift-x?
     Even in furballs I prefer my trim static, so I know what I'm dealing with in regards to elev and roll.  I assume most "advanced" pilots are either in this catagory or like to trim on the fly according to their preferences.  I more than likely won't be using combat trim, as it is a system that by design will be inaccurate, but I see it as immensly helpful to the poor guy trying to learn how to fly.

Of course I could be wrong, perhaps we shouldn't be able to magicly hit 'X' and have our plane go in a straight line like us cheaters have been doing.

I have not read the whole thread yet.  This is the first response that aligns itself with my thoughts.  Well stated Fatty. <S>

Here is the gig....

For so many players, in-security comes out in blantant emotionalistic impulses (Whines).  This emotional in-security arrises from the concept "DO NOT CHANGE WHAT I KNOW TOO BE TRUE".

Well sorry, that is total roadkill.  

It is BS because in all actual realitity none of it is true.  Wake up!  It is ALL an illusion gents.  It is ALL just smoke and mirrors.  

Ask yourself, why can I happily live with this tremendously UN-REALISTY FEATURE, but not this other totally UN-REALISTIC FEATURE.  

-or-

Is the "reality" just my opinion vs the developers opinion as to just what is MORE REALISTIC and what is LESS REALISTIC.

If HTC had started with "Combat Trim" and then changed it to "Manual Trim" what then?

Carry On!  


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SOB

Offline popeye

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« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2000, 10:34:00 AM »
"I supposed we should get rid of x, alt-x and shift-x?"

Get's my vote.    

popeye

ps.  As an experiment, I disabled (unmapped) the Auto Pilot modes on my setup, and flew a few sorties using manual trims only.  It is defintiely more "immersive", and more "realistic" (compared to my one hour in an AT-6), but I'm not so sure it is more "fun".  


[This message has been edited by popeye (edited 09-04-2000).]
KONG

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Offline Camel

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« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2000, 10:40:00 AM »
Take away "x", and Ill never get a chance to type inflight  

Offline Minotaur

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« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2000, 01:23:00 PM »
LOL    

Actually my thoughts along those lines which are not so serious, but I feel would provide greater flight control is this:

  • Give me (the player) the option of toggling control of the trim to my joystick.
  • Make trim controls respond rapidly without the all irritation of delays
  • I'll make my manuvers much more crisply  


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Offline easymo

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« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2000, 01:24:00 PM »
 Dmdbt. Pyro pointed out reacently that the ezmode guns in the ACA (WB) were weaker. Not stronger. Like WB in general this allows you to make mistake after mistake without dying.

 If you want to get an idea of what 100% gunnery in AH would be like. Set up an H2H arena. Set plane gun leathialty to 100%. That would be a setting of 5.0000.

 Fair warning. The game becomes much like real life. You dont want anyone to get a shot at you, AT ALL. And HO,s are instant automatic death.

 As near as i can tell The main is set at 1.0000. That means the gunnery in AH is set at 20% of full realisim