My pet peeve: Ground Vehicles.

[Mickey1992]

Last night I grabbed an ostie to finish off a town that I had almost destroyed in an A20.  After destroying the remaining buildings, I head over to kill the VH.  I put about 60 ostie rounds into the VH before I get killed.

I then return in about 3 min (nice downhill supersonic run) in a panzer.  I put about 10 HE rounds into VH and it still doesn't go down.  An enemy panzer spawns, I continue to pump rounds into the VH, some of which kill the vehicle inside .  15 HE rounds later I am killed, and the VH is still up.

I find that vehicles are useless against hangars now.  I have limited my vehicle use for town porking.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by CavemanJ


Go read my post again Tumor.  I said 75mm HIGH EXPLOSIVE
I generally disable a panzer, either engine or turret, on the first or second shot.  There is the rare exception that will eat 20 AP rounds, then finally find me and kill me with 1 shot.

Well thats what I'm getting at about inconsistency.  I use HE all the time and .... my record of killing engines and tracks is better with near misses than outright hits.  Don't think I've ever knocked out a turret with HE.

[Moose1]

2. I've fired 37mm AP rounds from the M8 at M3s and M16s and hit them EVERYWHERE. Cabin, wheels, gun, whatever. No damage. None. 37mm HE round WILL kill an M3 or M16... it just takes more than one hit. It will also friggin ricochet off an M3.

The M8 is, hands-down, either the worst-modelled or most useless but properly modelled (in that case begging the question- WHY the hell is it in the game to begin with?) unit in the game.

I think the one thing I consistently notice with GVs is extreme inconsistency.

Seriously...I've put 40-50 hits from the M8 37mm gun into an Ostwind and not killed it.  I took out his turret on the second or third hit, and after that I just kept hitting and hitting and hitting and he didn't die.  He wound up driving around me and stopping fifty yards behind me--with me continuing to blast 37mm AP into his side and track at 50 yards with no effect--until a panzer hit it ONCE with a 75mm...blew it up and got the kill.  50 37mm hits and I got the assist.

The next sortie I hit an Ostwind with three 37mm at 600 yards, flush in the left side, and it blew up.  So I dunno.  And yes, I've nailed an M3 with 6-8 37mm AP hits from an M8, square on the right side of the troop compartment and on the tracks, and done no visible damage.  But I've also blown them up with one AP hit.

I like the M8, I'd love to be able to actually use that 50+ mph speed for something.  But right now it's basically useless except for a little "cool" factor.  Ostys do everything else better, just at 24 mph instead of 50.

So, I tend to agree that the Ostwind's a tad overpowered.  It kind of scares me to think what'd happen if they ever added the Wirbelwind--AW's classic "flakpanzer", similar to the Ostwind but mounting 4 x MG 151/20 cannon and a crapload of ammo.

Does anyone have any historical information as to how useful the 37mm gun we have on the Ostwind might've been in ground combat?  I'd be interested to see if it was really as super-lethal in ground combat as it is in-game.

[SKurj]

Originally posted by Tumor


I've noticed that it "seems" to me that when folks have tracers turned off, you don't get explosion sounds OR craters from missed shots 100% of the time...   Further.... I "think" perhaps sometimes for whatever reason, I do not hear "hits" to my machine.  Just speculation, but it just seems way too improbable for someone to make first shot hits at really long range, especially when you get killed on that first shot.

Okey...

You CANNOT turn off tracers in GV's. If you do turnem off, you are the only one that won't see your tracers.  Everyone else will.

HOWEVER... at present there is a bug in the MA..  At present 50% or more of the GV fights I've been in there were no tracers, craters, or sounds from ANY gv's but my own.  Nothing from friendlies sittin 300yrds next to me, or from enemies.  Even when its a fight with 6 or more gv's.

The only shots you hear are the one's that hit you (or you fire)


SKurj

[eddiek]

.......at least I think it might work, would be making the Osty ammo loadout either all AP, or all HE, no mixed loads.
I talked at length with a guy this afternoon about German AA fire, he was there in the ETO, down low in the weeds, and he said you could tell the caliber of the German AA fire by the color of the puffs of smoke the shells made when they detonated in midair.
Not sure how HT would code it, but I think since the Ostwind was (from I have read and others have posted) primarily an AA weapon, it should have that feature, just like the 5" guns on the ships.  Fused shells, set to go off at a certain distance, for the AA loadouts, and the AP rounds would require a hit to achieve a kill.
I think giving the Ostwind a mixed loadout was a mistake.  Make the person using an Ostwind select his loadout prior to spawning just like a PNZR or M8 driver has to.  Then, if and when the GV damage model gets straightened out some, the Osty driver will not be able to blaze away with impunity, knowing anything he hits is going to die.  Seeing a PNZR in our sights, knowing all you have is AA style ammo and you are NOT gonna kill the PNZR, would make the game more challenging and therefore more fun IMO.
I'm not sure if it would be feasible or even possible to add the need to set the fuse timing on your shells, but that would be another solution, also.

[SKurj]

Osty has over 18,000 kills this tour so FAR!!

closest competitor...
Panzer 16,000+
Spit IX 11,000+
p51d 10,000+


SKurj

[Hooligan]

Ya know Urchin:

I was thinking of a polite response to admonish you over the alarmist and whiney tone of your post.  However my pet peeve is that it should be pretty easy for aircraft to kill the gun crews in open topped GV's (like the Osty).  It seems to me that one good gun pass from any fighter should disable the guns on these things via turning the gun crews to mush.  So instead of admonishing you, why don't I just buy you a drink at the con?

Hooligan

[Urchin]

I agree 100% with you, the Ostwind should be disabled by just about anything firing into that open top.  

I also agree with you 100% on buying me a beer at the con, since I will be to broke to actually buy any for myself .

[brady]

Nothing Personal Urchin, Just a pet peave of mine:)

   People who whine about the osty are a pet peave of mine:)


  Ok I Am A BIg GV fan i spen a lot of time in GV's and a LOT of time in the Osty.

 The ostwind enables GV's to have a viable gaming function in AH, the only thing that makes me work if I am in a plane going after GV's is the osty everything else espichaly the panzer is easy meat.

 If I am in a plane and after an osty, I have to climb, and then O my god this is work indead, drop a freaking bomb on him.

 Or I fly low and six him with a big bore gun, yak 9T or a Hsipano bust to his rear is enough.

 Now having said that, anybody who is doumb enough to fly right at an osty gets what he deservs.

 A short bust of 20mm to the turet is also enough to t/o it's gun. A spirling dive streight down on  him will disable him or kill him ought right. Planes aproaching this way are also very hard to hit.

 The 37mm round on the Osty should kill most all planes with just one hit.

 The Il-2 can shoulder 2 or 3 hist and keep coming, hit it in the tail and it is done for.

 When I am in the osty I miss 95% of the time I am shoting at a plane.

 The osty is popular because it is relatively survivable, it can be used for everything, and this is the way it will be untill HTC does somthing about the piss poor GV armor modeling it has.

 If the Osty is Perked or neutered because some peole cant seam to grasp how easy it is to kill them then we will see far fewer GV's doing anything at all.

 The M8 was one of the weakest and porest preforming Armored cars of the whole war, why we have it is simple. It Did have an AA MG the formidable 50cal! The German Puma a much better AC had no AA gun, imagine a vehical without an AA gun, espichaly those of you who would Perk the osty.

 The M8 as Urchin has said seams not able to kill the M16 and M3 with it's ap rounds. I have spent a considerable amount of time in the M8, I had over 25 kills vulching one night, I killed Panzers and osty's one after another as they spawned with 2 or 3 Ap rounds from a 1/4 rear aspect at about 75 yards.( NHMihat resupled me TY again btw:) ) I howeaver was unable to do anything to M16 or M3's a hit them repeatedly and nothing hapened, finialy I used the 50cal to kill them, appaling, this has been proven to me time and time again. I can damage panzers and ostys from the front but is more amatter of chance than anything else.

 The gun on the M8 btw historicaly a pore preformer, basicaly a pos, inefectave aganst the panzer except on the rear or side at close range. It should go right through the M3 in one end and out the other:)

 
  In closing I would have to say this be carefull what you whine about you might just get it.

[Urchin]

"If I am in a plane and after an osty, I have to climb, and then O my god this is work indead, drop a freaking bomb on him.

Or I fly low and six him with a big bore gun, yak 9T or a Hsipano bust to his rear is enough.

Now having said that, anybody who is doumb enough to fly right at an osty gets what he deservs. "

Nothing personal... but please give me some of the side firing rockets and bombs you must have, or the last sentence contradicts the first two.

[wolf37]

Did anybody know that in WWII, there where only 43 ostwinds made,

[Buzzbait]

S!

Ostwind's 37mm HE rounds, (and they loaded nothing else) should have zero effect on the front and sides of the Mk IV.  Even in its AT gun form, firing AP shells, the 37mm had less penetrative power than a Hispano 20mm.  In the hollow explosive form, the rounds would be useless.

A 75mm gun firing HE should take down a hanger in 2 or 3 shots.

The 7.92mm or .30 Cal. MG rounds should have minimal effect on a Panzer at all.  Not even tracks are likely to be damaged.  A .50 calibre round has a slightly better chance versus the rear of a Mk IV, but not much of a chance.

[Innominate]

The m16 is more effective for bringing down fighters that arent flying straight at you.  However, what makes the ostwind so great is that most planes in a base attack have no ordnance to deal with the damn things.  How is it that the open turret on the ostwind can survive multiple strafing runs from ANYTHING??

[brady]

If you come at the top from the top of an ostwind, i.e. straight down or nearly so( so the crew is exposed) you will get the bset results. My experence in strafing/ being strafied is that the planes that come in less than 45 degrease have little efect, the steaper ones ushaly get my gun. The longer he hits me is also a factor a long steady burst say 1 sec or better will t/o my osty gun.

 Planes atacking an airfield not having bombs? wtf, when would they be carying bombs? More often than not when I am defending an airbase a plane kills me with bombs much more so then when I am atacking one.

  "If I am in a plane and after an osty, I have to climb, and then O my god this is work indead, drop a freaking bomb on him.

Or I fly low and six him with a big bore gun, yak 9T or a Hsipano bust to his rear is enough.

Now having said that, anybody who is doumb enough to fly right at an osty gets what he deservs. "

Nothing personal... but please give me some of the side firing rockets and bombs you must have, or the last sentence contradicts the first two.

 Most of my kills in an osty are aganst people who bore right in, they come from 3k or more out and just come streight at me. they are easy to kill.

 The one's that get me with bombs are generaly heigher than my efective range( praticaly speaking over 2.5k) they heal over and drop. the closer to 90 degrease( streight up) they are the harder it is to hit them, if they role into me from that angle is is almost imposable to hit them. If he has a couple 1K bombs he doesent even nead to get right on target, he will kill me or t/o my gun.

  Rockets, same thing, do not do a direct aproach, come in a orbatial aproach and turn in just long enough to fire the rockets, it just takes a second, set the salvo to two and fire a couple sets off, pull out, extreamly dificult to hit a plane doing this.

 The sentinces are not contradictory, it all in the doing, when atacking an OSTy do Not fly right at it, set up the target, if you are alone bombs are the best aproach.

 If you are in a group wait till he is firing at some else and then bore in a hit him when he is not looking.

 Another aproach and my personal favorate is to sixem.  if you suspect/know ground vehicals are present at a base take off and stay low sucidaly low in fact. fly around behind the spawn point staying low. Come up from behind the spawn point and head for the base. How often do u look behind you when u are in a vehical heading for a target? Whell I think most rarely do. I get good kills this way. As you aproach the base you undoubtdly see GV's come in on the six, low, and fire at like D400 give them 1 or 2 seconds of 20mm, 3 or 4 rounds of 37mm yak 9T ammo and they brew up, pase them low wiggling a bit to throw off their aim and look for more easy pickings.

  I get killed most by Bomb's and wind up ditching most from strafing, strafing does work I lose my gun all the freaking time, if you are experencing never die osty's they may be being resuplied.


 But the beast thing is simply kill them with an panzer.

           

[SELECTOR]

i think the ostwind has been a hot issue since ive been playing AH..
don't know what the answer is .. but maybe perking the beast to say 60 points (same as the less deadly spit14) would go somewhat to taming the little beasties..