Author Topic: HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.  (Read 724 times)

Offline BigGun

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2002, 12:12:48 PM »
I actually was between A1 & A4 for couple hours last night. Gotta say, it was a blast. I like the strat stuff, but also enjoy quick, furball action sometimes. Last night was a blast. If I would have been interested in Strat stuff, A1 & A4 would have been the last place I would have looked. Pick better strat targets next time.

Offline Apache

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1419
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2002, 12:16:45 PM »
Yeah BG, agreed. The BK's were at 1 and 4 lastnight as well. Most fun I've had in 2 or 3 weeks.

Anyone that tried a strat deal on either base would have never made it...not that some didn't try, lol.

Offline CSDMMNT

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2002, 12:22:40 PM »
Let me see if I understand this complaint ...

Small map = higher flying fighters
Larger map = lower flying fighters

That correct?

Why would that N1K not be at 25k on the pizza map? Heck the pizza map made it easier to get to 25k unmolested.

Historically weren't fighters higher flying than bombers, giving the bombers cover from the ... high flying defending fighters?

imho the issue isn't the maps here its the fact that bombers now have to calibrate, level out, and drop ordinance more true to life fashion at a lower altitude to increase accuracy rather than fly at 30k to 40k and drop with pinpoint accuracy that we saw in 1.09.

We're now all understanding why bombers went up in large squadrons with squadron fighters covering them. More bombers in the air, 3 for every one pilot in AH now, yields higher percentage that the bombing run will do damage required. Fighters boom and zoom trying to keep the bomber tails clear of fighters who are boom and zooming the bombers ... while the bombers are spraying an amazing amount of lead at them defending fighters boom and zooming them.

Maybe we're seeing culture shock, we're seeing the arcade strats coming up against real strat?

Dunno, just some thoughts thrown out there, my 2 cents is free and ready to be abused.

Offline BUG_EAF322

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3153
      • http://bug322.startje.com
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2002, 12:35:37 PM »
Beetle is right the old maps are to small

For me this is a big frustration people spawn within 5 minutes and not a few

The old size suits niks and spits perfectly

i'm not a big shot 10 in a row pilot so i mostly get in dogfights to long

This means i always have to fight out a bunch of gangers who spawn close.

On the bigger maps the peoples are more spread out giving fights more quality.

Plus seen the maps long it's getting boring
interest is a bit gone.

Not that i wil give up my account no way
;)

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2002, 12:37:44 PM »
with all the "strat" targets on the map and all the undefended/lightly defended fields to attack .....  one would have to assume that anyone attacking a1 or  a4 as a "strat" element is doing it simply for the attention "look at me i'm important too" or, simply as a spoiler..    "how dare they furball and ignore me".
lazs

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2002, 12:40:51 PM »
Narsus, Shiva, & Wlfgng: If you would reread my post (more carefully this time, please), you will see that I said I was ambivalent about the reintroduction of the old maps. It's not the maps I have a problem with; it's the arcade gameplay that comes as a result of those small scale maps combined with features like the bardar and Mission Editor. Don't tell me that high N1K wasn't some sort of aerial vulcher just waiting for folks like me to arrive!

Revvin! Took me ages to work out the meaning of FFS - LOL!  How's yer gob?

Lazs! I am so glad you responded. :D A thread would be incomplete without having you arguing with me. :)
Quote
I bet everyone woulda got sick of one map only tho after a while.
Sure thing - and I would be one of them. I said that on Day-1. I was not arguing in favour of the pizza map, but more the game play that became possible (field capture etc. - I know you disapprove) and the ability to carry out those stealth missions with a handful of people (because there's only a relative handful on at Eurotimes) without the LA7/N1K dweebs ruining it at a stroke by upping from an adjoining field five minutes away.  I didn't attack A1 for hours on end. I flew about four sorties there, and did something else when I realised that the rooks had the upper hand. But thank you for your kind words. I'd like to buy you a gift - maybe a new tin of polish for you to clean your guns :D:D

Shiva (again)
Quote
So instead of making any attempt to make a coordinated attack on the field, you just took off in your jabo to hit the field, expecting that you'd be able to set up a coordinated attack on the fly, and then come here and whine when it doesn't happen.
It didn't happen like that. At first, I was resigned to furballing, and that's why I took the 190A5. But then two guys made themselves known on voice comms, and I realised that we would have a chance to capture the field. We originally thought (owing to the reduced presence of Knits at A4) that they (the knits) were fighting a two-front war - Bish to the east, and rook to the west. They might have been, but clearly the rooks had gained the upper hand - possibly because the knits had no other field from which to take off. But then of course the rooks attempted some opportunist kills of the Bish - and we were only trying to do their job for them! That N1K should have let me in. I could have flattened the field, then he could have killed me and summoned the Goon ;)  By the way, I did NOT read that Q&A thing - it must have got buried in all the whining material from the FW and GtG crowd. I read PLENTY of that. :rolleyes:

Funked Up
Quote
If you can't get people to help you like that then the problem is your social skills, not the map.
Someone else who opens his gob without having read my post properly. If you would reread it, you will see that it wasn't a solo jabo run. Two other guys announced that they were interested in capture. That's WHY I switched to jabo Thunderbolt.  I'm surprised you didn't invite me to kiss your ass, especially as there is plenty there to be kissed! :D:D:D May I remind you, Mr. P-Funk, that AH is a game not played solely by Americans. The Euro afternoon will see players from many different countries, with many different first languages. There are some excellent Japanese guys on at that time, but few of them speak English. Some of the Europeans speak English, but the jargon may not be easy for them. Language is a problem. I hope you'll take the time to understand this, and not be a smartass next time.

CDSMMNT
Quote
Historically weren't fighters higher flying than bombers
I have already satisfied myself, on the strengh of the postings in another thread, that the historical aspects of the real WW2 have naff-all to do with AH. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: July 19, 2002, 12:50:39 PM by beet1e »

Offline Revvin

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1724
      • http://www.ch-hangar.com
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2002, 12:44:01 PM »
Beet1e> Fine thanks, was'nt what they originally thought, had a root filing so should be online later

Offline CSDMMNT

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2002, 12:54:30 PM »
So ... what is it you are complaining about in your original post that initiated this thread?

Quote
CDSMMNT
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historically weren't fighters higher flying than bombers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have already satisfied myself, on the strengh of the postings in another thread, that the historical aspects of the real WW2 have naff-all to do with AH.


Btw: that quote you have from my post is fairly out of context of my post which is in reply to your entire post. I'm not caring to apply WWII historical strats to AH at all, just saying that some do and perhaps some WWII historical strats MIGHT apply, especially with the new 1.10.x feature set(s).

Anyway, I thought you complained about a bomber run and how it didn't fit into your desired encounter for the situation.

Sounds like now to me your simply whining about the fact you wanted to lowball into a town with a bomber and blast some buildings unharrassed but sadly got foiled by some N1K who was covering his base like a good lil defender.

Quix

Edit: and using the map as the scapegoat

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2002, 01:17:38 PM »
beetle... i know you couldn't know this but you don't use "a tin of polish" to clean firearms...   Thank you for your kind offer tho and if it's not too much trouble i would prefer you send "shooters choice" or , old reliable, "hoppes #9"
email me for the address to send them to.    

I feel the urge to reciprocate.... I will send you a present also... Toothbrush and toothpaste.... with instructions.   Who knows?  you might even start a fad in britan.
Thanks again.
lazs

Offline thrila

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3190
      • The Few Squadron
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2002, 01:32:23 PM »
Instructions? We (British) don't need no steeekin instructions to know how to use our toothbrushes to clean our bathroom tiles.  It's not like a toothbrush has any other uses.:)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2002, 01:37:15 PM by thrila »
"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2002, 01:34:40 PM »
CDS - I apologise for quoting you out of context. However, YOU didn't read my post properly!  I was not in a bomber, I was in a P47D30. And the N1K was not covering HIS base - he was a rook, capping A1 which was knit. And he did NOT kill me. I barrel rolled, and he had so much speed that he overran me, and pulled up. By the time he could resume the chase, I had extended such that he could not catch me. I guess we should teach him about the scissors!

Lazs - LOL!  Double LOL!!! I've never owned a gun, as I have no plans to shoot anyone. :D As for the toothbrush/toothpaste, hehe - you're a little off target with me, but point well taken. When I lived in America, I noticed that dental hygiene and orthodontics was taken much more seriously than here (at that time - early 1980s). Kids routinely wore orthodontic braces in the US, yet when I wore one (in the 1960s) kids made fun of me :( You'll be pleased to know that I saw my dental hygienist only this week - all OK. And I haven't had a tooth drilled in 14 years. Lazs, I think I like you after all. You're funny. You make me laugh. :):D;)

Offline SKurj

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3630
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2002, 01:49:45 PM »
I just got lucky I guess...


My post appeared within 24 hrs of HTC reinstating rotation Beet1e tho you are welcome to come to your own conclusions as you already have.

HTC dropped the price for AH within a couple of days of a post in which i stated I could not afford the old price too..

I don't think my opinions weigh that heavily on HTC, do you?


SKurj

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2002, 01:56:43 PM »
Quote
Someone else who opens his gob without having read my post properly. If you would reread it, you will see that it wasn't a solo jabo run. Two other guys announced that they were interested in capture.


Oooooooooh a whole 3 plane mission.  With no escort, but you expect to have security against the entire enemy air force(s).  Please.

Quote
May I remind you, Mr. P-Funk, that AH is a game not played solely by Americans.


You might have noticed that half the guys in my squad are from Poland.  We also have had guys from Germany, Spain, and Russia.

Quote
The Euro afternoon will see players from many different countries, with many different first languages. There are some excellent Japanese guys on at that time, but few of them speak English. Some of the Europeans speak English, but the jargon may not be easy for them. Language is a problem.


Are you trying to say that the language barrier is compounding your organizational problems?  
If so you have a point.  But still I have found that 99% of AH players know enough aviation english to get the job done.

But let's get back to the root of the problem.  You can't organize a mission package sufficient to defeat enemy air defenses.  This could be due to a lack of social skills on your part (doubtful because you are a congenial fellow in my experience), or a language barrier (I think you overstate this issue.).  

But I think the real issue is that most other players aren't interested in playing the way you like to play.  Instead of pressing on with an ahistorical 3-ship suicide raid, and then asking that the game be altered to make this ridiculous tactics more effective, you should look for a solution to this issue.

Possible Solutions:
1.  Alter other players' behavior.  Seems unlikely unless you have studied mind control.
2.  Find a game where people behave how you want them to.  I've played this game as well as WarBirds and WWII Online and I don't see people behaving that way.  I think chances are slim and none that you will ever find a MMOG where humans will always want to play your way.
3.  Play a single player game in which you control the goals of all the other pilots.  Il-2 is a great example.  It's a fine game, and you can do all kinds of missions with you trusty AI teammates.  They are happy to fly milkruns or boring escort missions or even battlefield recce sorties, whatever you want them to do.  And they will never give into the temptation to furball unless you want them to do so.
4.  Realize that the main arena format will never give you what you are looking for, and fly in the MA only for practice and for toejams & giggles.  Do your "serious" flying in the TOD and Scenarios where historical-style teamwork is the goal of the whole event.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2002, 02:01:02 PM by funkedup »

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2002, 02:08:31 PM »
beetle said.... "Kids routinely wore orthodontic braces in the US, yet when I wore one (in the 1960s) kids made fun of me"

I don't think it was the braces that were at fault.    Heck, I make fun of you and I've never even seen your teeth.
lazs

Offline XNachoX

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 881
HTC/Hitech: You helped *them*, now help *us*.
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2002, 02:59:52 PM »
Yea....Lay off the braces will ya? Sheesh.  They have feelings too.
--------------------