Author Topic: WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures  (Read 964 times)

Offline Revvin

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WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2002, 01:17:20 PM »
I also seem unable to maintain a steady course when bombing, it appears there is no autopilot when in the bombardier view which is quite alarming as the bombsight takes more time to calibrate than AH's (actually very nicely modelled) such a shame.

Offline Fishu

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WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2002, 01:20:16 PM »
Lack of autopilot is bad..  especially in planes where it should be.
Flying He111 for 30 minutes and then trying to bomb could be considered quite a job.
Can't leave it for half a minute alone.
pretty straining flights.

Offline hardcase

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WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2002, 01:52:29 PM »
wotan, what would be a better way to signify control of a ab or civ bldg?

hard

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2002, 04:47:34 PM »


Heres a quick map,

The blue and purple dot would be forward  bases.

the red and gold dot would be army/front hqs.

The front would be broken up by Armies. An army would be in control of a section of the front. Army hqs would control the FBs on it section of front.

Hqs would need to be at large twns that have rail and road access for supplies. The frontline bases can be placed any where as long as there is road access for supply.

Towns and building capture would be irrelevant. Thy army hqs could be placed by ai or have the side command staff place them. AI could do it by placing the HQS at xx miles from the front and at the closest city with supple access.

The forward bases could be placed by the sider command staff or by ai similiar to the HQ placement. They would need supply access and XX miles from an HQ.

Encirclements could take place where whole armies are trapped in a pocket. Assaults could be planned the breach the front etc.

Armybases and building control is irrelevant to territory.

DoD does flag capture way better then wwiiol.

Fighting would be spread out from just the towns. There would  need to be limits like there are now on tank spawning  You could even add another sub-base in between the army hq and forward bases.

I could go on on but you get the picture.

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2002, 05:36:15 PM »
What happens if no players want to be in a particular army?..

So, analyze what will happen to gameplay as each air, land sea component operates on your setup. How long to reach any fight given something is taken?  How will you surround an army that no one is logged into? ABs and Civ Bldg are relevent as they move the fights one way or the other which a method of moveing the territory of the fight. Seems like too much control of a player that the player won't do. Tell me how this will play better than what is in place, that doesnt require a complete rework of the map(which would be a lot of coding) Nice map but I would think you need now do it in depth with mind gameplay.

As for DOD doing it better, ww2ol is a tad more complex than DOD.

hardcasse

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2002, 05:59:10 PM »
what happens now if no one spawns at an ab?

Then what?

If you dont defend it you lose it.

I thought them servers were supposed to hold 10000 folks?

Theres plenty of truck rushes that grab flags with no defenders. You could use the "mission" system thats in place to encourage folks to spawn in particular army. AI messages that say xx has broken through at xx. You also actually put that command structure to use in planning sonewhat realistic campaigns.


From a gameplay standpoint imho that  game a is pos. I appreciate you fan bois holding  the line but all you have is a large capture the flag arena. I kept a paid account there till 1.55 then said f it. Never played more then a few hours week. My squad of 22 disolved  the 1st month the after the release.  From what udie says about camping  in a tree all night doesnt sound like fun.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2002, 06:03:58 PM »
Also when you log in you could pick an army hq and from there find out which area of the front heavy fighting is at. Much better then 1 guy killin the ai and sneaking about in between buildings stealing radios.

Offline hardcase

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WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2002, 08:44:15 AM »
Wotan, have you played the new version? No man can take a town now. You can't truck rush behind the lines, a completely different gameplay for capping. One reason that the front line is now moving more slowly. Taking a town requires full cooperation from land and air and somtimes sea. What you use as an example is gone.

hardcase

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2002, 09:24:43 AM »
a reinstalled for the 2 week deal and jumped on a tank as an inf went to nearby by town and snagged half the town as nme inf spawned I hid and killed a couple. They took the buildings back I waited took umm again. then hid some more got a couple more kills. then snuck into the ab as I was running to the bunker a nme tank spawned. I stopped and throw some grenades at it but I could have made the bunker. Unfortunately he killed me.

But it was hardly action packed. Had I known where all the buildings were I most likely could have got them all. As a matter of fact when I respawned and ran back to that town (took a fediddlein hour) it was captured just as I entered the town.

I keep hearing how great it is. But have yet to see it. My fps are fine no comp problems except when i am in the air and over fly an area where there lotsa other folks. I get abit of stutttering and fps drop but it settles.

My reasons for not liking it are mostly gameplay.

Offline hardcase

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« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2002, 12:15:03 PM »
Taking all the bldgs would have done you know good..

you take a bldg, a timer starts and for the next 10 mins there is no table radio in the abs to let them be captured. You hold your bldg or all of them but you must do it for 10 mins, while the defenders spawn and come at you. If they take back all the bldgs you have taken then the timer resets. One man is not gonna take defended spawn point. Towns behind the lines and out of supply dont have capturable bldgs at all, so truck rushes are out of the question. Things have changed and none of these settings are in stone, they are subject to change. The 10 mins is being considered to be changed to a lower number cause holding a bldg for 10 mins is proving difficult, but taking a town can be done, just takes a lot of cooperation.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2002, 01:03:17 PM »
ah see I didnt know about the ten minute timer :)

I dont have any of the maps and would never have found all the buildings in ten minutes but someone / folks did.


But the whole take the town/flag capture thing aint for me. Thats been done and done better.

Without some sort of real "front" then the whole idea of "Blitzkreig" is pointless. The panzers would have moved around  these "towns"/ pockets and  encircled  them. They would have then been  cleared out be the follow up forces.

Even the Stuka whos historic roll was as medium bomber with precision attack capability is not put to its proper usage. It was neither intended as tactical ground attack aircraft nor as strategic bomber. It was intended for an intermediate level - the operational level.

Unlike tactical attack aircraft that were employed against frontline targets, the Stuka was seen as a weapon to strike at targets behind the front, destroying communications and decimating units on the march before they could reach the front (or before they could reform on the retreat). In modern terms, it was not meant for Close Air Support but for Battlefield Area Interdiction.

Even things like gliders and paratroopers if modeled would be useless with the current capture system.

109es and 110s werent straffing and killing tanks with mgff. Theres a whole list of things that arent right with how wwiol the game is played that remove it from a credible wwii combat sim/game.

Its still capture the flag on a big map with less action then wbs, ah, DoD, wolfenstein, etc.........

These games make up for their lack of realism with gameplay and action.

I cant imagine an eastern front version of wwiiol based of the current model.

It would be even more a joke then it is now.

The terrain looks great though, the tanks are fun when you find some good fights. The inf model looks better but is still ugly imho. The aircraft look ok but are by far easier to fly then any other flight sim/game out there. I have heard the terms easy mode, arcade to describe it.

Offline Fishu

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WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2002, 01:45:07 PM »
Wotan,

Let's see this compared to AHs..

There is 'flag humping' in AH as well..  first you take out the surrounding flags (AA), keep defenders down (players), which after you bring the grunts (flag humpers) into the scene and let them go in the bunker (funny.. don't we go in the bunker also in WWIIOL?)

I don't see difference there what comes to capturing something, only thing is way the capture flags are represented, since planes obviously can't be running around capping the flags, so they the 'flags' have made to suit them better.

So it's basically same capture pinball.


but problem really is that you can't really achieve any benefit from encirceling towns...  in fact enemy towns couple lines behind, can magically supply tanks far behind frontline after they capture one town around them, which is clearly wrong.


but come on now, you can't be seriously complaining about usage of Stuka.
Are you implying that players are utilizing equiptment in other games like those were to be used in real life?
Im yet to see such game...
Ackstar B17s around airfields doesnt sound quite realistic either, do they? (sure there was AB17s, but they weren't dogfightning over AFs, they were going with formation)


"109es and 110s werent straffing and killing tanks with mgff"

Same strafing thing happens in AH as well... so what is actually the point of the argument?
I see this pretty much happen in every game.


Overall, most of your arguments are invalid.
Players will utilize equiptment wrong as long as they don't have to fear loss of life nor to strightly obey the commands.
It happens in every game, so it is rather bad ranting point for one game.

Offline hardcase

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WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2002, 01:56:10 PM »
CC on the timer thing..AND...there is attrition of the major pieces of equipment. Spawners at some ab can completly deplete say A13s for the brit side, leaving only the basic spawn of inf, tank gun and a truck and even INF attrition is being looked at. The problem with your truelife war is that...you ahve to have some place for players to get refitted. Players in tanks can outrun their supply line and suddenly you have a MMOLRPG that requires ppl to drive 5 hours to reach the front. Rats knew that they needed to keep driving down to 5 mins to a battle from a spawn. The spawns have to travel with the front, and for now their system works well for that. Is there some room for improvement or fine tuning? The Rats would be the first ones to say it is so, they are doing something no one has done and some things done are best guesses at best. They may well change the cap flag to something else if it works better and adds to the gameplay without penalizing gamers.

hardcase

Offline Braz

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« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2002, 02:56:49 PM »
Funny,

Many of the posters on the rat's forums are complaining about capture problems. Bugged tables, broken strat keys, and lack of attrition. That adds up to Quank for many players.

The rats are held to a higher standard that HTC. AH doesn't reach so far, and HT didn't want it to. He saw problems in combining a FPS with vehicle sims, and has been proven right so far. But the rats went farther than that, they wanted to model the entire wwii world, complete with all major campaigns. Or at least real navies, and that famous hydrostatic sea model. It'll be awhile. ;)

Attrition, command allocated resources, visable supply vehicles, real gameplay issues need to be addressed, imo. And those features need to be stable for gosh sake. AH has a lotta toys that work as advertised, heh. Maybe after another year of paid beta the Blitzkrieg might be stable and complete in features. I'd love to play the game they invisioned, but don't wanna pre-pay for development. I think that sets a bad precedent.

Offline Mighty1

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WW2OL, Take a Look at the New Textures
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2002, 05:06:36 PM »
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Fanboys go away!!
I have been reborn a new man!

Notice I never said a better man.