Originally posted by Hangtime
I've always considered that damn killshooter a 'necessary evil' at best, a good way to keep 15 day wonders from messin with the rest of us, at worst a gawdamned irritating way to discover some over-eager donutwood hopped in front of me while I'm slappin the trigger on a pinned bad guy.
[/B]
I agree, it's a necessary evil. The AW experience proved this when the PNG system was replaced by killshooter, and rightfully so IMO.
In the first case it's tolerabe, in the second, and most common place, the guy that deserved to die didn't.
[/B]
Here's where I disagree. It is tolerable, yes, but rarely in my experience has the guy that deserved to die NOT died. Killshooter punishes poor shooting and bad SA. Sometimes it's unavoidable... the other night I blew my tail off as a squaddie flew in front of my guns 30 yards ahead. And you know what? I deserved to die for that... it was my poor SA, not his flying in front of me, that did me in. The game rightly punished me for poor flying.
Thats freakin annoying.
[/B]
Annoying doesn't necessarily make it wrong. In the same way that someone who dies to a HO never seems to admit taking the HO himself, many people who die by killshooter can't admit that it was their own flying and not the other guy's that lead to their demise. Why is it that some people die often to killshooter and others don't? Something must explain the disparity... surely "jokers" don't just jump in front of some people's guns but not others on a regular basis.
Now a guy comes along and offers what sounds to be a not unreasonable solution.. I don't die when some joker hops in front of my guns, and the 15 day wonder gets his guns turned off in short order if he persisits.
[/B]
My original post objected to easymo's claim that the many killshooter hate threads are proof that killshooter is flawed. It had nothing to do with his solution per se, but rather his faulty logic in assuming that a majority of the players desire something different. The fact is that in most threads on killshooter, the original poster and a couple of others vent about it, and a larger number tends to post in support of it.
I think yer wrong again. For the reasons I've pointed out above.. I'd think that given a choice between the current system and the suggestion that easymo made, easymo's is better hands down.
[/B]
I find the current system superior to easymo's suggestion, and here are the reasons why. First of all, lackof immediacy means that easymo's plan won't prevent the kinds of over-the-shoulder spray 'n pray mentioned in other threads. It probably won't reward better positioning or superior SA in any noticable way as the current system does. In short, it doesn't encourage "realistic" flying like the current system.
Second, the punishment vastly outweighs the crime. It's one thing to punish poor gunnery, poor SA, or whatnot with dying. It's a death... you need to grab another plane, climb back into the fight, waste the time to get back into things, lose the K/D, etc. Once and done. It's another thing entirely to consistently punish someone over the course of a tour for their mistakes. The system proposed by Easymo wouldn't prevent "jokers" from flying in front of your guns any less, only now you would have to face the possibility that you'll be at a constant disadvantage for a very long time. Even the old AW PNG was better than this IMO.
Now, DMF, whats your REAL beef? His callin you a cheerleader for hoppin his case with a reasonable solution to a gamey piece of the sim? Is your skin so damn thin? Or the thought of somebody thinkin yer staunch defense of something thats 'worked in three sims' could be improved bends yah outta sorts?
[/B]
(C) None of the above. Easymo's contention that killshooter is flawed because there are so many posts saying that it's flawed is what I attacked originally. That argument proves nothing. The fact is that most AH players either don't notice, don't care, or prefer killshooter -- you know, the 90% who don't post on the boards, and the majority of those who show support for it in threads like this. They may well do the same with an improved version of it, but Easymo's suggestion is hardly an improvement.
Or is it just that the idea came from easymo, and as such it's indefensible and unacceptable?
I have no beef with easymo personally, so I'm not really sure where you came up with that one. I don't recall stating that easymo's position was "indefensible," though it certainly is unacceptable given a number of factors pointed out already in the thread.
-- Todd/Leviathn
