Charlton Heston's speech

[miko2d]

fd ski: Selective memory Mike. You were called the rasist because of the conclusions you drew from the arguments ["The Bell Curve" book], some of which included that particular book.
 We've beaten that horse to death too. Book in question has been refuted on all levels...
 I've read the refutations too. I have not been convinced by them but that is besides the point.

 The worst that could happen is that I am wrong and difference is not 1.2 but - say, 0 standard deviations. I can't see how (even mistakenly) believing that one number is closer to reality than another one could be considered racism?
 Racist is a person who makes decision about people based on fact of their race rather than qualifications. My whole point is that only qualifications should matter in all interactions.

weasel: As pointed out by miko2d your mistaking Libertarian values for liberal ones, and demonstrate perfectly why I hold the so called "conservative" fairy tale in such contempt.
 Mav's views are definitely "liberal" - everywhere in the world except in US where that word is used for different purposes.
 Libertarians should have bitten the bullet, adopted the right name and brough the right meaning back to it rather than coming up with a confusing substitute.
 I call my vews "liberal" in russian or in close company - it's just when I am talking to a general american audience I have to call them "libertarian" to avoid misunderstanding. It's not a matter of Mav's mistaking something but of his using the correct slang...

 miko

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by lazs2
so sandman and tahgut.... why is it ok, free speech wise, to have lyrics like cop killer because you are "angry" about some feelings they have but it is criminal and not free speech to use words like cupcake or studmuffingot (if you are white or hetro) when you are angry about certain behaviors of some black people or homosexuals?   Oops... is "black people" ok anymore?   I heard "mellinan superior" was the new term but it's all so confusing.   Would you oppose lyrics that promoted "kill all the cupcake rioters"   if the white guy could prove the injustice of having his property burned or that he was angry?

Charleton Heston is one of the clearest thinkers I have ever heard.   I would not like to argue with him.   I think why tahgut and sndman hate his speech is a combination of.... they are trained to hate it because of their leftist suport system.... peer pressure and .... like all lefties.... a basic dishonesty.  some of the more moronic lefties lack the common sense gene but I don't think this is the case with them.
lazs

A song with the lyrics you mention would be, and should be absolutely legal. I personally wouldn't buy it, nor would I buy "Cop Killer". No need to prove anger either. That song might just be depicting an angry white man.
Mr. Heston's speech is OK. The examples he cites are suspect and only semi-truthful.

No Hortlund you do not have the right to know if your dentist is HIV positive, or has Aids.

HIV Infection
Lack of HIV transmission in the practice of a dentist with AIDS. H.W. Jaffe, J.M. McCurdy, M.L. Kalish, et al. Annals of Internal Medicine 121 (December 1, 1994): 855-59.

In a study of the practice of a dentist with acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS), no evidence was found of either dentist-to-patient or patient-to-patient transmission of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV).

from
This Site

[Hortlund]

The examples he cites are suspect and only semi-truthful

Suspect and semi-truthful? Is that when you wish he was lying or makings stuff up, but realize that he's telling the truth?

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by midnight Target
from
This Site

I hate those bastards at odphposophsdhhs and thier liberal agenda

-Sikboy

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by midnight Target

No Hortlund you do not have the right to know if your dentist is HIV positive, or has Aids.

Well...in Sweden I do.

And believe me I'm thankful for that too.

You do whatever you want on the other side of the atlantic.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Hortlund
You do whatever you want on the other side of the atlantic.

That's why we have the Monroe Doctrine

-Sikboy

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Hortlund


Suspect and semi-truthful? Is that when you wish he was lying or makings stuff up, but realize that he's telling the truth?

No, that is where some of what he says is truthful, and some is half truths and some is just opinion.

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by lazs2
so sandman and tahgut.... why is it ok, free speech wise, to have lyrics like cop killer because you are "angry" about some feelings they have but it is criminal and not free speech to use words like cupcake or studmuffingot (if you are white or hetro) when you are angry about certain behaviors of some black people or homosexuals?  
lazs

Lazs, Exactly what would the charges be if you use words like "cupcake" or "queer?" Unless you're directing these words at someone to start an altercation (assault) you can say whatever you damn well please. Marshall Mathers?? Alan Iverson?? They used the word "studmuffingot" in their rap lyrics and took alot of heat for it too. In fact M&M got boycotted by gay and womens' groups over his lyrics. Listen to a recording of a KKK rally. They use all the words you site plus many more  But illegal? Not hardly Lazs. Poor taste is still legal.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by Hortlund


Well...in Sweden I do.

And believe me I'm thankful for that too.

You do whatever you want on the other side of the atlantic.

You all enjoy your next witch hunt too. Remember, "a duck floats on water!".

[H. Godwineson]

Creamo,

I stand corrected.   You are absolutely right.  Ted Nugent's success as a rock star and his wealth clearly indicate that he cannot POSSIBLY be an idiot.  

What WAS I thinking?!  You da man!

Regards, Shuckins

P.S.   I know you probably didn't mean to, but you misspelled my name.  That's ok.  I didn't take it personal.

[miko2d]

The dentist acknowledged that he had not followed recommended infection control procedures.

 It would have been silly of him to follow "infection control procedures" - they are just a nuisance formality anyway. The law clearly states that infection cannot be passed from from human to human in dentist's office... At least in New Jersey.

 miko

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by Hortlund
Elf, do you agree with the following statements?

1) HIV is a fatal decease to which science has no cure.

2) Science does not know all the possible ways HIV spreads between individuals. (For example, it is known that the HIV virus is present in an infected persons saliva, but there is no confirmed cases of the infection spreading through an exchange of saliva).  One of the known ways the decease spreads between individuals is by blood.

3) In a normal dental procedure, there is no transfer of blood between the patient and the dentist.

4) In case of an accident, there is a risk of blood being transfered between the patient and the dentist.

5) In case of such an accident as described under 4),  the risk of the patient getting infected by HIV is greater if the dentist is HIV postive than if he is not.

Steve, I searched the Internet for hours yesterday searching for information on HIV transmission from a dentist to a patient and hey, it just doesn't happen. In fact I found several references to dentists who are afraid of getting bit by an HIV- infected patient, but in total I found ONE reference to HIV transmission between a health care provider and his patient- and that one wasn't confirmed.

From a pracitical standpoint no, it's none of your business what diseases your dentist may or may not have. However, I found many websites from dentists attesting to their negative HIV medical status so- also from a pratical standpoint- it shouldn't be a problem to find an HIV free dentist in your area.

Now if you had asked that question in a rhetorical sense then I would be more inclined to agree with you. But as a pracitical concern no, it's a non-issue. Basically it's a battle flag Mr. Heston ran up the pole just like his comments on "cop killer." I can't agree with Government probing into the health histories of its citizens in absence of a legitimate reason any more than I can agree with Government restrictions on free speech.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Elfenwolf
 In fact M&M got boycotted by gay and womens' groups over his lyrics.

And that really hit him hard in the pocketbook, since Feminists and Homosexuals were his core target audiance. Between that and losing revenue to Napster, I hear that Eminem was forced to sell 4 of his 12 alter-egos just to have enough money for food.

I wonder what James Cagney would have thought about todays hip-hop "gangstas" No really, I do.

-Sikboy

[Elfenwolf]

Originally posted by Sikboy


And that really hit him hard in the pocketbook, since Feminists and Homosexuals were his core target audiance. Between that and losing revenue to Napster, I hear that Eminem was forced to sell 4 of his 12 alter-egos just to have enough money for food.

I wonder what James Cagney would have thought about todays hip-hop "gangstas" No really, I do.

-Sikboy

Well gee, Sikboy, I guess Charlston Heston, Tipper Gore and you all agree- free speech needs limits placed upon it by the Government rather than by the pressure of society.

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by Elfenwolf


Well gee, Sikboy, I guess Charlston Heston, Tipper Gore and you all agree- free speech needs limits placed upon it by the Government rather than by the pressure of society.

No, I think James Cagney and I *Might* agree (I've yet to ask him, once I die, I'll get right on that) that people who adopt "anti-heroic" personas for the purpose of entertaining are pretty fun to listen too (or watch).  I find little distinction between Ice-T or  Ice Cube and Cagney's Tom Powers   or Edward G. Robinson's Rico Bandello.  Or if you'd prefer, Brando, Pachino, and DeNiro's Don Corleone (Vito, Michael, and young Vito) I'm sure that some people find a big difference, but I don't  

-Sikboy