Author Topic: Iraq (why should we attack?)  (Read 801 times)

Offline majic

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« on: August 10, 2002, 03:48:59 PM »
I've been torn on this issue for a while and was wondering what people thought about it.  Why should we or shouldn't we?  If you have any helpful links, please post them as well.  DISCUSS.

Offline Sikboy

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2002, 04:10:25 PM »
I'll take a shot at it.

We should not.

Saddam Hussein is a 6 foot tall turd. A waste of humanity. A burden to his people. A threat to his neighbors. A blight on US foreign Policy.

But until we can make a case before the world that we have adiquate cause to remove him from power, I do not think that we should. If you want to talk about further funding (since we are already spending tax dollars on this) Iraqi oppostion groups, then I'm for it. If evidence surfaces that connects Al Quada to Iraq, or Iraq to nuclear weapons, then I'm for military intervention. But as of yet, we have not seen any such intelligence. It is entirely possible that it exists, and is being held by the Administration (and possibly, but give the leakage not likely, the congress). But that evidence will need to be presented to our key allies (Nato, perhaps some of the moderate gulf states) in order for us to move forward on that.

I have a very conservative foreign policy outlook. I'm a big believer in power politics and the deterrence model. However, (and this is where I deviate from my conservative cohorts) I believe that our actions should be tempered by the opinions of our allies. When Germany says "no thank you" to participating in any operations, I don't think of it as "You Yanks are on your own, thanks for the Marshall plan, but kiss my ass!" I think of it as "Whoa, buddy, don't you think you've had enough to drink?" I mean, when the Brits are saying "Dude, give me the keys" I think it's time to pay attention. I'm not saying that every time we want to act, we have to ask Djibuti how they feel about it, but I do think that we need to consider our actions long and hard when, for example the Brits and the Germans don't agree. (I don't worry too much about the French and the Russians when it comes to Iraq though. I belive that there are money issues there that will forever keep our views apart there).

Also, If we were to take out Saddam, I would personally like to see us stick around and help build a democratic regime in his place. It will be one of the most difficult undertakings we've ever pursued, but if we choose to let them swing in the wind, then I don't see why we would do this. I don't believe that any autocratic ruler stuck between Iran (with an active nuclear program) and Israel (with an actual nuclear arsenal) would choose to not pursue nuclear weapons on their own without substantial security garuntees from the US, and I don't think that we are prepared to provide that (although I could be wrong, but then if we would enter into sucn an agreement, why not spend the time money and effort trying to build a democracy?)

In closing (and I know I'm rambling here) I think that there are too many unanswered questions right now. What makes Iraq more important for regime change than say, Myanmar or Pakistan? Will the US be able to get support from at LEAST the UK? What happens after Saddam is in a box? Once we have a few more of these (and of course "we" the public won't even know until after-the-fact, unless we present the evidence to the Security Council, A-la the Cuban Missile Crisis") then I will reasses my position.

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline SC-Sp00k

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2002, 05:34:52 PM »
While Iraq's Hussein has to go. I'm betting the real deal is Oil.  Millions of people have died for Oil and im betting Millions of people will again.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2002, 05:43:26 PM »
"Millions of people have died for Oil and im betting Millions of people will again."

:eek:

Millions? Who killed these millions, which war? Did you hear this on a college campus?

Offline ra

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2002, 06:00:06 PM »
The issue of whether it is a good idea to bump off Hussein is way above my head.  But today someone told me that in his opinion attacking a sovereign nation which hadn't attacked us should be out of the question.  I don't think this guy's analysis went quite deep enough.  Iraq attacked a sovereign nation and then lost the subsequent war.  They then agreed to peace terms which required, amongst other things, foreign inspectors snooping around looking for evidence of development of weapons of mass destruction.  Hussein allowed the inspections for a while, then threw out the inspectors, in violation of his peace deal.  Then there's the matter of trying to assassinate the ex-president of the US in 1993.  So Iraq's sovereignty is already tattered and torn.

The mid-east is exporting all sorts of violence and instability around the world, and Hussein's regime is one of the sources of these exports.  He uses the instability of the area to his favor.  Maybe he has nothing to do with 9/11, but you can bet that if he could have helped the 9/11 terrorists he would have.

Offline Udie

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2002, 06:32:48 PM »
This is yet another failure of the Clinton administration.  When the UN inspectors were kicked out of Iraq the war should have started all over again and ended in either the UN inspectors back at work in Iraq -or- a regime change.  Instead Clinton used it to deflect media from his impeachment.  Let's not forget he was impeached :)

Iraq attacked a sovereign nation and then lost the subsequent war. They then agreed to peace terms which required, amongst other things, foreign inspectors snooping around looking for evidence of development of weapons of mass destruction

 That right there should be the ONLY reason we need, period.  Without factoring in all the other crap that he has done or is trying to do.

Offline Creto

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2002, 06:46:36 PM »
Why?  Because nobody else has the will or means to do it.   Their only solution is to kiss his arse and squeak about our actions in public while behind the camera impatiently waiting for us to clean up the mess AGAIN.

Offline SC-Sp00k

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2002, 07:18:56 PM »
The college Campus! LOL Yah, your a riot....no...really.

WW1, WW2, All the little Arabic Wars,  little places like Papua New Guinea, etc etc.

Small wars, Large wars.  Wars you never hear about. Oil. Oil companies dont give a hoot who goes in the process. Vested American interests shrouded in Oil profits. European, Arabic, Eastern. Oil is always in there somewhere.

Thats all that this is about.  Vested interest in the Middle East.

Offline loser

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2002, 07:44:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
"Millions of people have died for Oil and im betting Millions of people will again."

:eek:

Millions? Who killed these millions, which war? Did you hear this on a college campus?


geez grunherz, guess you havent seen the documentary titled "The Road Warrior."

:D

Offline ra

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2002, 09:27:46 PM »
<<>>

Please explain how WWI, WWII, and 'all the little Arabic wars' were about oil.  The mid east wasn't even a major source of oil until well after WWII.

<<>>

So all wars are caused by US oil companies?   Life is very simple to you.

Oil is a strategic material, nothing more, nothing less.  It will play a roll in any large war.

A gallon of gasoline (refined oil) costs less than a gallon of Perrier, and it would be much cheaper were it not for taxes and market manipulation.  One day, probably in our lifetimes, oil will be nearly worthless as some other cost effective source of energy will be found to power our vehicles.

Offline KG45

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2002, 09:48:03 PM »
a RW hero explains why we should attack iraq:

Herman Goering, Germany 1930's.

Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?

Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood.

But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country
all you fascists, you're bound to lose...

Offline Hangtime

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2002, 10:10:30 PM »
We want saddams women...

" ey, sadaam... 'ow much fer de women?? is dat yer lil girl?? very cute. how much you want for her??"

..and his goats.

oh yes. his goats.

"how much for the leeetel goats, saadam, eh?"

"naaaaaaaaaahhhh"

ah, yes. shes a cute one, ey?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline majic

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2002, 12:00:46 AM »
Umm, kg45, did you have a point?  


RW = right wingers?  Look, you wanna attack some political party, or other group, go do it in anther thread.  I was asking about why or why not the U.S. should go into Iraq.

Offline loser

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Iraq (why should we attack?)
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2002, 12:24:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by majic
Umm, kg45, did you have a point?  


RW = right wingers?  Look, you wanna attack some political party, or other group, go do it in anther thread.  I was asking about why or why not the U.S. should go into Iraq.


majic i suggest you calm down.  And yes he did have a point, and it is painfully obvious.  (made more obvious by your kneejerk defensive response. )

you pose a vague and and obscure question, then ask for peoples opinions and thoughts, then cry when they dont match your own feelings.  

Then you go so far to arbitrarily interpret acronyms...RW?   damn that could mean anything. I myself think "ringworm" would be good.

I believe whole hearted in KG45's last paragraph and see the proof and truth in what he says in your own words.

:rolleyes:

Offline Holden McGroin

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Petroleum Wars
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2002, 03:18:29 AM »
Not to take the other side's point of view, 'cause I think we should kick Saddam's bellybutton just for jollies and general principles,...

BUT

Japan was headed for Indonesia because Indonesia had petroleum reserves that Japan Lacks.  The USA, which was a net exporter at the time, shut off the petroleum supply to Japan, due the Japanese military doing interesting things in China.

They invaded China to secure mineral resourses, among other reasons.

Germany took over Rumania due to Ploesti oil feilds.

Petroleum was a major factor in WW2, and in Japan's case, possibly a primary factor.

spelling edit
« Last Edit: August 12, 2002, 02:12:05 AM by Holden McGroin »
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